It's fine Peter, no need to explain, and don't mind my comments. Of course you shall use what ever you find is best. I just reacted to the statement of something being in another league without a comparison. My guess is, that when you compare the U52 with something else - it will be in another league... But never mind... It's just me being into the psycho acoustics of things, I have experienced on many occasions in hifi how powerful it is, and how much ''the brain controls the ears'' without us knowing. Listening without bias..!? I don't believe any longer that any of us can do that.
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Morten, I am using Full Music 12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes with the Old stock Mullard EL34 brown base tubes in the Primaluna two amp. I have tried Mullard box plate CV tubes, triple mica 5751 Sylvania tubes, long plate Mullard tubes, but low and behold, the Full Music tubes sound the best in my system.
There are a lot of reviews on audio equipment. Ultimately, you have to put the equipment you are interested in, into your system and see how it sounds. With the NjoeTjob CD player that I own, it took a lot of tweaking of the unit until I was happy with the sound, even though in stock form, this CD player got excellent reviews.
In a few weeks, I will get Hugh over for a listen and I can write up my findings. If the Philips is better, I will say so. No bias. At the end of the day, it is the listening experience that counts not the brand. Enough of that.
Anyway, have you had any front end component sound problems connecting to the Tram2. My CD player is fine, but my phonodude pre-amp when connected distorts the voicing of the music. When I put in another pre-amp or the Primulana two integrated amp, there is no distortion of the music. The output impedance is 470k at the phonodude. Very strange.
All the best
Peter
There are a lot of reviews on audio equipment. Ultimately, you have to put the equipment you are interested in, into your system and see how it sounds. With the NjoeTjob CD player that I own, it took a lot of tweaking of the unit until I was happy with the sound, even though in stock form, this CD player got excellent reviews.
In a few weeks, I will get Hugh over for a listen and I can write up my findings. If the Philips is better, I will say so. No bias. At the end of the day, it is the listening experience that counts not the brand. Enough of that.
Anyway, have you had any front end component sound problems connecting to the Tram2. My CD player is fine, but my phonodude pre-amp when connected distorts the voicing of the music. When I put in another pre-amp or the Primulana two integrated amp, there is no distortion of the music. The output impedance is 470k at the phonodude. Very strange.
All the best
Peter
I don't think we are talking about the same, and I don't have the nuances in English to be precise... Never mind, and just forget my comments...
Had there been TJ ECC88 types I would be SO INTERESTED in hearing them, but unfortunately they don't make them... (TJ = rebranded as Full Music for some reason, but it's TJ that makes them).
I don't think your phono dude has 470K output impedance, so I guess you mean 470R..!? My guess is, that the output from the Phono Dude is quite high and that you have clipping of the input voltage in the volume control IC (if your volume control in the Tram II is in ''normal'' mode). If this is the case, then go to shunt mode... No clipping and better sound provided that you use top quality series resistors.
Had there been TJ ECC88 types I would be SO INTERESTED in hearing them, but unfortunately they don't make them... (TJ = rebranded as Full Music for some reason, but it's TJ that makes them).
I don't think your phono dude has 470K output impedance, so I guess you mean 470R..!? My guess is, that the output from the Phono Dude is quite high and that you have clipping of the input voltage in the volume control IC (if your volume control in the Tram II is in ''normal'' mode). If this is the case, then go to shunt mode... No clipping and better sound provided that you use top quality series resistors.
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Input clipping is a serious issue.
What is the maximum Vrms the Tram2 can handle before clipping?
Thorsten earlier in the thread said any voltage beyond the rails on the volume control causes nasty protection clipping behaviour but what is the voltage rail value?
Clive Meakins wrote "you may come across a source component which can overload the 5V maximum input for the volume control. A very few DACs have huge outputs and high gain phono stages used in conjunction with high output cartridges will conceivably cross the 5V overload threshold."
Is that 5Vrms or 5Vp-p?
5Vrms is 14Vp-p - could the rails be 14V?
What is the maximum Vrms the Tram2 can handle before clipping?
Thorsten earlier in the thread said any voltage beyond the rails on the volume control causes nasty protection clipping behaviour but what is the voltage rail value?
Clive Meakins wrote "you may come across a source component which can overload the 5V maximum input for the volume control. A very few DACs have huge outputs and high gain phono stages used in conjunction with high output cartridges will conceivably cross the 5V overload threshold."
Is that 5Vrms or 5Vp-p?
5Vrms is 14Vp-p - could the rails be 14V?
As said earlier... The DS1666 chip runs on +5V DC (I think it can also run on +- 5V DC, but I'm not sure)... If it's on +5V DC in the Tram II, clipping will of course be below the supply voltage. If it's on +- 5 vol the headroom is doubled, but clipping will of course still be below the supply voltage to the chip. Again, this is only when the volume control is connected in the ''normal'' mode. Choose ''Shunt'' mode for no clipping limit in the chip and better sound.
EDIT... Just checked the data sheet: http://www.sm0vpo.com/_pdf/ds/DS1666.PDF If pin 14 is on a negative 5 volt voltage, then there should be +-5V supplies, and a possible analog voltage swing a bit lower than that. So if you want to know, measure the voltages on pin 14 and pin 16. Or even better... Connect a signal source to the input, run a sinus curve, turn up the input signal, watch the output on a scope and see the clipping limit.
EDIT... Just checked the data sheet: http://www.sm0vpo.com/_pdf/ds/DS1666.PDF If pin 14 is on a negative 5 volt voltage, then there should be +-5V supplies, and a possible analog voltage swing a bit lower than that. So if you want to know, measure the voltages on pin 14 and pin 16. Or even better... Connect a signal source to the input, run a sinus curve, turn up the input signal, watch the output on a scope and see the clipping limit.
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Thanks for your expert help once again. I didnt know the volume control is built around the DS1666 chip (the search function above gave no previous hits in this thread for "DS1666").
Google showed the DIY HIFI uses the DS1666 in its Ultimate Volume Control and gives specs of Maximum input/output level: 3.5v rms in standard mode.
3.5Vrms = 9.9Vp-p = DS1666 "Wide analog voltage range of ±5 volts"
So unless someone is going to scope it Im relieved I cant clip using any of my sources.
I think I better try the shunt mode one day anyway as Morten points out it sounds better using a great resister?
Morten, a link to the phonodude circuit. http://dddac.de/pics/phonodude/pd-circuit2.gif
I have changed from Normal to shunt on the Tram2 and will be firing it up after my son watches 'Star Wars the Clone Wars' on TV.
Peter
I have changed from Normal to shunt on the Tram2 and will be firing it up after my son watches 'Star Wars the Clone Wars' on TV.
Peter
In the Ultimate Volume Control manual on Page 2 & 3, there is an explanation of selecting a shunt resister of a specific value to suit all the sources and have volume range.
I do however wonder if Morten could design a resister divider so each of the five inputs could be independently configured with differing input sensitivities?
http://diyhifisupply.com/files/UVC-UTS installation manual_1.52sm.pdf
You did know
it says in Clives review that you linked to... That's where I got the info from...
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Thanks for the info, I have used the Phonodude circuit some years back, so I know it well.
Regarding shunt mode... As Bjarne mention you must move the two jumpers from ''normal'' to ''shunt''. When that is done the preamp should work normally, volume going up/down.
With the standard 100K series resistors used in shunt mode I think that it's not a sonic benefit to use shunt. But replace the standard resistors with a pair of 100K Shinkoh tantaliums, Vishay naked Z foil or what ever you prefer, and (IMHO) the sound is better in shunt mode.... And no risk of clipping the input signal...
I wonder if there might be a photo I can follow? Im not so good with words.
Morten, in shunt mode, it solved my dilemma of the high output of the phono stage. Very nice. No distortion in the vocal range. I was getting more hiss from the -3dB output so I dropped the output connection to reduce the hiss. I will be installing Rod's regulators soon. I will have to get better 100k resistors now. Thanks
Peter
Peter
Peter
As Morten gets so may requests to repeat himself from me Ill try to help out with links: Morten's old post with the shunt mod_photo using the
Vishay naked Z foil 100 kOhm
at USD56 for the pair they must be special?
"These are the very best Vishay resistors made for audio...in fact, they are the highest technology resistors on the planet ! In their short 18 month existence, they have gained quite a reputation for neutrality, resolution, low level detail, etc... "
I want to go green and try some carbon sink resistor to save greenhouse warming:
USD2:20 a pair
As Morten gets so may requests to repeat himself from me
Ill try to help out with links: Morten's old post with the shunt mod_photo using the Vishay naked Z foil 100 kOhm
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
at USD56 for the pair they must be special?
"These are the very best Vishay resistors made for audio...in fact, they are the highest technology resistors on the planet ! In their short 18 month existence, they have gained quite a reputation for neutrality, resolution, low level detail, etc... "
I want to go green and try some carbon sink resistor to save greenhouse warming:
KIWAME
2 Watt Carbon Film Resistors
2 Watt Carbon Film Resistors
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/media/product/resistors/Kiwame.jpg
USD2:20 a pair
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Ha ha... Yes, you are the expert on keeping me busy in this threadPeter
As Morten gets so may requests to repeat himself from me
Personally I would not use the Kiwame (or any other carbon resistor) for this application. If you don't want to buy high quality transparent sounding resistors I recommend to stay with the ''standard'' setting of the volume control, it will sound better. Having a large 100K resistor directly in the signal path, the sonic foot print of the resistor will be very evident. Therefore it's one of the most critical parts of the signal path, as critical as the capacitors in the signal path.
The only alternative I would consider are the Shinkoh tantalium, these are cheaper than the Vishay naked Z foil if 50 $ is too much of an investment...
From: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diy-hifi-supply/156854-dht-otl-linestage-tram-2-a-82.html
All members who want to use the "holy grail" audio resistor,
the TX2575 Naked Z-Foil,
could order it direct from Arbie Lopez at Texas Components.
alopez@texascomponents.com
That´s the cheapest way to get it IMO.
They have also great Trimpots with Bulk Metal Foil Technologie.
Peter
All members who want to use the "holy grail" audio resistor,
the TX2575 Naked Z-Foil,
could order it direct from Arbie Lopez at Texas Components.
alopez@texascomponents.com
That´s the cheapest way to get it IMO.
They have also great Trimpots with Bulk Metal Foil Technologie.
Peter
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