SY said:
I see what you mean, but I'm not entirely sure I agree. When it's a deficiency in ability, I'm prepared to accept it.
It's when it's just a disinterest in making sure what you write can be understood with minimal effort I get this Taliban attitude. If people want my help or try to make me see their point of view, they had better not make me work harder than necessary to understand what it is they're saying. My time may not be precious to them, but it is to me. That's what I mean by respect.
Rune
wintermute, I was talking about the first sentence: you are missing a comma.
runebivrin, I disagree. While English is not my first language, I have been speaking it half of my life (and thinking in it most of that time).
I still make plenty of writing errors. When I took International Terrorism at my undergraduate university in Florida (ironically, only a few months before the 2001 attacks), the instructor, also working as an editor for the FBI, returned every single written assignment covered in red corrections -- even on the occasions she had also added "best homework in class." Still, I think just caring will decimate the horrid abuse of language we see in electronic communication. Making sense out of some of Henry James' paragraphs is good practice to improve one's grammar...
runebivrin, I disagree. While English is not my first language, I have been speaking it half of my life (and thinking in it most of that time).
I still make plenty of writing errors. When I took International Terrorism at my undergraduate university in Florida (ironically, only a few months before the 2001 attacks), the instructor, also working as an editor for the FBI, returned every single written assignment covered in red corrections -- even on the occasions she had also added "best homework in class." Still, I think just caring will decimate the horrid abuse of language we see in electronic communication. Making sense out of some of Henry James' paragraphs is good practice to improve one's grammar...
Prune said:runebivrin, I disagree. While English is not my first language, I have been speaking it half of my life (and thinking in it most of that time).
I still make plenty of writing errors. When I took International Terrorism at my undergraduate university in Florida (ironically, only a few months before the 2001 attacks), the instructor, also working as an editor for the FBI, returned every single written assignment covered in red corrections -- even on the occasions she had also added "best homework in class." Still, I think just caring will decimate the horrid abuse of language we see in electronic communication. Making sense out of some of Henry James' paragraphs is good practice to improve one's grammar...
I have a confession to make: I don't understand what it is you disagree with. Seems to me we're pretty much in agreement on that as long as people really try to do the best they can it's OK.
Rune
Thanks Dave 
OK prune I misinterpreted. I assumed that your follow on sentence was still in relation to my post not a generic statement! That comma, I assume, should have been after spelling (i.e. after I realised the correct spelling, I associated it …….)
I think you are being a little bit picky. If the lack of that comma (which basically indicates a pause) makes my post hard to understand or read, then I (and a large proportion of other forum users) might as well give up right now.
Commas are another thing that I'm not strong on!
I don't think that it is necessarily that people don't care (although I'm sure that is a factor in some cases). Why do you think that proof readers exist? It is because people often can't see their own errors.
The brain tends to filter things in such a way that people read what they intended to write not necessarily what they actually wrote.
Tony.
OK prune I misinterpreted. I assumed that your follow on sentence was still in relation to my post not a generic statement! That comma, I assume, should have been after spelling (i.e. after I realised the correct spelling, I associated it …….)
I think you are being a little bit picky. If the lack of that comma (which basically indicates a pause) makes my post hard to understand or read, then I (and a large proportion of other forum users) might as well give up right now.
Commas are another thing that I'm not strong on!
I don't think that it is necessarily that people don't care (although I'm sure that is a factor in some cases). Why do you think that proof readers exist? It is because people often can't see their own errors.
The brain tends to filter things in such a way that people read what they intended to write not necessarily what they actually wrote.
Tony.
Rune, have you tried any online dictionary?runebivrin said:
This is good, has even words in swedish!
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/
I like that they have good examples for each word. This is useful for somebody who is not good at the language in mind.
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/definately
Prune said:
Here is an example of widespread misuse causing a change in the official meaning of a word. From Merriam-Webster Online:
Main Entry: dec·i·mate
Pronunciation: 'de-s&-"mAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -mat·ed; -mat·ing
Etymology: Latin decimatus, past participle of decimare, from decimus tenth, from decem ten
1 : to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2 : to exact a tax of 10 percent from <poor as a decimated Cavalier -- John Dryden>
3 a : to reduce drastically especially in number <cholera decimated the population> b : to destroy a large part of <firebombs decimated large sections of the city>
The meanings in entry three are comparatively recent and result from common misuse.
New words are formed this way, too. The shortening of "orientation" to form "orientate" when the perfectly good verb "orient" already exists is an example that has climbed into common usage. This still drives me up the wall, but it's now in the dictionary. What's next? "Relaxate" for "relax"?
My biggest pet peeve is "loose" for "lose", but this doesn't cause any problems. Think of how many back and forth misunderstandings could be saved in this forum if everyone could communicate precisely - especially the technical details!
Prune said:
ARRRGH!!!
Oh man, three times you try and fail to guess what it was.
OK, now look at the two sentences I just wrote (counting this one). Where is the comma? I hope you see your mistake now.
Well I have better things to do with my time than play this silly game. Do you not see that I inserted extra commas on purpose in that post, have you not heard of irony£¿
I still can't see what is wrong with the original post, and I don't really care. If something so petty (an@l?) upsets you then I really feel for you, as you must cringe every time you pick up a newspaper or magazine.
Tony. /who thinks that commas are extremely overrated!
wintermute said:
Okay, the only trouble with using this as a guide is that here in America, we don't say "can't" with an ahhh sound, we say it so it sounds like "ant" or "fair".
wintermute said:and I have never heard anyone say it like want (I'm assuming this is on sound as in ont)
We tend to say "want" two ways. With the ahhh sound, and with the "au" sound, so it sounds like "flaunt".
<grin> yep that's my basic rule too No doubt there is a formal rule about comma use, but I have never been taught it!
I was thinking the exact same thing about the pronunciation, without using some internationally recognised phonetics it's a bit pointless really, I was thinking that as I wrote it, which is why I put in the ahhh
Tony.
No doubt there is a formal rule about comma use, but I have never been taught it! I was thinking the exact same thing about the pronunciation, without using some internationally recognised phonetics it's a bit pointless really, I was thinking that as I wrote it, which is why I put in the ahhh
Tony.
My wife is from Costa Rica.
I once mentioned spelling bees, and she said that they don't have 'em in spanish speaking countries. I asked about "spelling" as a grade school subject. Nope, nada, no spelling tests or list of words to study.
Spanish is spelled so much like it is pronounced, that they have no need for it.
Mark
I once mentioned spelling bees, and she said that they don't have 'em in spanish speaking countries. I asked about "spelling" as a grade school subject. Nope, nada, no spelling tests or list of words to study.
Spanish is spelled so much like it is pronounced, that they have no need for it.
Mark
Worried about spelling....? Obviously you people haven't had the displeasure of trying to learn something as different as Chinese as a second language 
Not only is it difficult to write - but it's difficult to say as well! A slight difference in intonation changes "May I ask a question" to "May I have a kiss"!
Not only is it difficult to write - but it's difficult to say as well! A slight difference in intonation changes "May I ask a question" to "May I have a kiss"!
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