Look at my schematic and tell me what you think. I do not have dimensions on there and everything is not exactly to scale.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So, over on PE's forum, there have been a few project that have used the RS100. HTGuide also has a couple:
http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=32447&highlight=rs100
http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=31655&highlight=rs100
I know there was one full range design on one of those sites but I can't find it.
I think you should use a dual chamber reflex enclosure as it'll help to control the excursion while delivering the same output as a single BR enclosure. You might want to consider a Onken (Fonken) type enclosure too. The RS100 is rather insensitive, requires a heavy notch filter to suppress the 14kHz resonance further reducing the output, and yet it will exceed xmax at ~6W. Bottom-line, IMO, it's not a good driver for bass nor full-range but is supposed to be a stellar mid. I think this has contributed to the lack of projects, as for it's limited use there are still better options.
If you really want a full range, consider a different driver. I think the results are going to be a serious compromise. But YMMV.
Regarding the T-amp, Dayton Audio just introduced their own version. It's only $40 over at PE.
http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=32447&highlight=rs100
http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=31655&highlight=rs100
I know there was one full range design on one of those sites but I can't find it.
I think you should use a dual chamber reflex enclosure as it'll help to control the excursion while delivering the same output as a single BR enclosure. You might want to consider a Onken (Fonken) type enclosure too. The RS100 is rather insensitive, requires a heavy notch filter to suppress the 14kHz resonance further reducing the output, and yet it will exceed xmax at ~6W. Bottom-line, IMO, it's not a good driver for bass nor full-range but is supposed to be a stellar mid. I think this has contributed to the lack of projects, as for it's limited use there are still better options.
If you really want a full range, consider a different driver. I think the results are going to be a serious compromise. But YMMV.
Regarding the T-amp, Dayton Audio just introduced their own version. It's only $40 over at PE.
OK, here's a tease
I got some data today.
Here's the Tangband W3-1364 impedance
and here's the Dayton RS100_4 unshielded
Qts of the RS was 0.75 at -10dB and 0.73 at 0dB.
Qts of the W3 was 0.90 at -10dB and 0.86 at 0dB.
0dB is about 1V peak of MLS which I haven't yet correlated back to VoltsRMS. ( any pointers gratefully accepted)
Just to confuse things, the W3 is in a 4.5L box while the RS is in a 3.5L box. Both should be sealed but I have the RS box is still in construction (Cal: it ain't fully knocked up yet!.
)
.....
I got some data today.
Here's the Tangband W3-1364 impedance
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and here's the Dayton RS100_4 unshielded
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Qts of the RS was 0.75 at -10dB and 0.73 at 0dB.
Qts of the W3 was 0.90 at -10dB and 0.86 at 0dB.
0dB is about 1V peak of MLS which I haven't yet correlated back to VoltsRMS. ( any pointers gratefully accepted)
Just to confuse things, the W3 is in a 4.5L box while the RS is in a 3.5L box. Both should be sealed but I have the RS box is still in construction (Cal: it ain't fully knocked up yet!.
).....
more tease
I've listened to these speakers as a stereo pair (I know they're completely unmatched) on both a T-amp and a Yamaha A-1000 in class B mode. I have to say that the T-amp wasn't very listenable.
The Yamaha made the speakers sound much better. I have a thought that class D can't handle anything over a couple of KHz with any finesse. The PWM algorithms can't correct back emf fast enough - or something??
These speakers, thrown together as they are, sounded pretty good as full rangers. Sure, there was no bottom octave and they lacked a crisp edge on transients (cymbals were disappointing) as you'd expect. But they both have excellent transient detail on percussion and vocals and the like. With no crossover, the imaging is very convincing. It's a long way from perfect but I like what I hear so far.
Comparatively, the bandwidths overlap. The W3 goes higher cleaner while the RS has quite impressive bass for it's size, sounds like almost an extra octave as the impedance plots suggest. The RS had some nasal overtones but I suspect some resonances in my cabinet (wouldn't be the first time ) so as always, YMMV.
Hope to get some SPL plots soon
I've listened to these speakers as a stereo pair (I know they're completely unmatched) on both a T-amp and a Yamaha A-1000 in class B mode. I have to say that the T-amp wasn't very listenable.
The Yamaha made the speakers sound much better. I have a thought that class D can't handle anything over a couple of KHz with any finesse. The PWM algorithms can't correct back emf fast enough - or something??
These speakers, thrown together as they are, sounded pretty good as full rangers. Sure, there was no bottom octave and they lacked a crisp edge on transients (cymbals were disappointing) as you'd expect. But they both have excellent transient detail on percussion and vocals and the like. With no crossover, the imaging is very convincing. It's a long way from perfect but I like what I hear so far.
Comparatively, the bandwidths overlap. The W3 goes higher cleaner while the RS has quite impressive bass for it's size, sounds like almost an extra octave as the impedance plots suggest. The RS had some nasal overtones but I suspect some resonances in my cabinet (wouldn't be the first time
) so as always, YMMV.Hope to get some SPL plots soon
Driver_King said:
How about this Sonic T Amp clone from Parts Express for only $39 plus S&H?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-380
I promised some data so here we go
Here is the RS100_4ohm in a 3.6L box vs the TB W3_1364 in a 4.7L box, measured in the near field.
Here is the RS100_4ohm in a 3.6L box vs the TB W3_1364 in a 4.7L box, measured in the near field.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The RS100 goes south around 4KHz while the W3 is much more forgiving in the high end. I guess it has 20Hz or so on the bass end although it sounds more.
Anyway, I really can't get behind the RS100 as a full range but it has interesting possibilities as a mid.
Lots more testing to do. I want to go far field and see what distortion is like at different levels. I think the RS will do much better in this regard also.
BTW, in a 3.6L cabinet, the 4ohm had a Qts of 0.7! vs 1.0 for the 8ohm.
Anyway, I really can't get behind the RS100 as a full range but it has interesting possibilities as a mid.
Lots more testing to do. I want to go far field and see what distortion is like at different levels. I think the RS will do much better in this regard also.
BTW, in a 3.6L cabinet, the 4ohm had a Qts of 0.7! vs 1.0 for the 8ohm.
Iain, the response graphs that are listed in the PDF files that accompany each driver on the PartsExpress website would have lead me to believe that each of these drivers had much more top end. Both drivers look relatively flat to almost 20k on the manufacturers response sheets. Why do you think your results are so much different? Do you often find that your results differ?
Also, casting graphs aside, how do they sound?
Do you think that the Tang Band's coupled with a sub that can play up to 100hz would sound good or would there be a need for a tweeter?
Also, casting graphs aside, how do they sound?
Do you think that the Tang Band's coupled with a sub that can play up to 100hz would sound good or would there be a need for a tweeter?
Most manufacturers test their speakers in a infinite baffle whereas I'm testing in a sealed cabinet. Also, the drivers only have a few minutes use on them - I didn't burn them in.
I have seen production models differ from engineering prototypes in the past as well. The engineering samples are lovingly made by hand whereas your production units are mass produced as quickly as possible. The datasheets are usually made from engineering samples.
They do sound like they measure though. The RS is muffled and unacceptable on it's own.
I'm going to be doing much more testing and listening on these speakers over the next weeks so it'll be interesting to see how they mature.
Anyone else have experience here?
I have seen production models differ from engineering prototypes in the past as well. The engineering samples are lovingly made by hand whereas your production units are mass produced as quickly as possible. The datasheets are usually made from engineering samples.
They do sound like they measure though. The RS is muffled and unacceptable on it's own.
I'm going to be doing much more testing and listening on these speakers over the next weeks so it'll be interesting to see how they mature.
Anyone else have experience here?
Iain McNeill said:
If I did two of them per cabinet (fronts, rears, and center) do you think it would be enough output? I'd wire them in parallel for a 4ohm final load on a receiver. They'd likely be getting a decent amount of power though. Tang Band's 6.5" sub is only rated at 75RMS but I throw 150rms each at 4 of them in my car and they love it. If these can take a little more power like the subs they might do well for me.
well, it's all about headroom really isn't it. Good old-school uncompressed music has a peak to average ratio of 20dB. Thus 150Wrms max into 4ohms = 24Vrms means you can have music at average of 2.4Vrms or 1.4W without clipping which is probably quite loud enough (the RS is 84dBSPL/W/m). The point being your 150W amp is probably only putting out a couple of watt on average most of the time.
The risk is that a sustained crescendo will melt your voicecoils.
I like the TB's and for the price, you can try them out without breaking the bank. I bought a pair, liked them so much I bought another 6. You could even start with two and put them in a pair of cabs with room to upgrade to 4 later on. They won't compare too favorably to some of the other full range designs presented here though.
The risk is that a sustained crescendo will melt your voicecoils.
I like the TB's and for the price, you can try them out without breaking the bank. I bought a pair, liked them so much I bought another 6. You could even start with two and put them in a pair of cabs with room to upgrade to 4 later on. They won't compare too favorably to some of the other full range designs presented here though.
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