Like you, the 22,000uf was just some caps I had. So this is what I used.
I think 10,000uf will be fine. What brand of 10,000uf do you have?
That sounds like a good one.
I tested over a dozen different caps on my previous DAC.
Took me a few weeks.
Ended up with Vishay MKP1837 for the input.
One thing i discovered was.......that some of the big boutique caps would barely work at all with these low voltages. Russian Teflon for example.
The smaller the better.
I tested over a dozen different caps on my previous DAC.
Took me a few weeks.
Ended up with Vishay MKP1837 for the input.
One thing i discovered was.......that some of the big boutique caps would barely work at all with these low voltages. Russian Teflon for example.
The smaller the better.
A better receiver would be a better choice (like WM8804/5). If you wish to test other caps for both C1 and C2 (both same brand/type/value) make sure they are small. Just like the caps for the PLL.
Changing the power caps won't bring much as they already are pretty large for this application. As long as they good quality low ESR caps like the original PW types you won't gain much.
The 220 uF caps after the 12 V regs are definitely too large and too low in ESR, I used 47/25v YXF with good results. Can't explain why but when I used Wima 22/16 MKT caps at the output the DAC sounded somewhat better to my ears. I also have MUSE 47/50 bipolar caps which I will try at that spot. I guess my Mezmerize is not too fond of some mV DC at the input.
Changing the power caps won't bring much as they already are pretty large for this application. As long as they good quality low ESR caps like the original PW types you won't gain much.
The 220 uF caps after the 12 V regs are definitely too large and too low in ESR, I used 47/25v YXF with good results. Can't explain why but when I used Wima 22/16 MKT caps at the output the DAC sounded somewhat better to my ears. I also have MUSE 47/50 bipolar caps which I will try at that spot. I guess my Mezmerize is not too fond of some mV DC at the input.
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So much information to work with.
I am doing nothing to mine, until it has been used for a week or two.
I have to say it has settled a bit after only a few hours, and is sounding nice.
I don't use the op amp output stage, so that won't need time to run in.
This has been a straight swap for my old Lampucera DAC, and is clearly a step up, even without modifications.
I am doing nothing to mine, until it has been used for a week or two.
I have to say it has settled a bit after only a few hours, and is sounding nice.
I don't use the op amp output stage, so that won't need time to run in.
This has been a straight swap for my old Lampucera DAC, and is clearly a step up, even without modifications.
Not tried yet nothing on C2 but with a FKP2 in C1 there is for sure a BIG difference.
BTW my SACD player had KP1830 in I/V section, FKP2s in the same positions was a quantum leap...
I'll make some test to confirm but IMHO Nichicon FWs sounds better...particularly not bypassed at all.
I'll try 100uF Silmics, Cerafines and possibly Nichicon KWs.
BTW 220uF Silmics seems fine...
jean-paul, I usually wont disagree with anyone about their thoughts on the presentation of sound, becuse that is a personal thing, but the bigger filter caps make a massive difference to the "smoothness" and "grain free" nature of the sound, of course I'm not going to say that everyone will prefer this sound, but it does make a very noticable difference.
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Capacitors shoot-out
This week end I've done a lot of cap swapping and hearing with these results:
C1
FKP2 BIG: better control on bass, deeper soundstage, slightly more refined
C27,C29,C34,C31
BC038 47uF 63V BIG: fuller bass, wider and deeper sounstage, more refined
C8,C9,C21,C11
SMR 100nF BIG: wider soundstage, more reverbs, more refined
C3
BC038 100uF BIG: Body, soundstage, musical, better than solid
SEPC 470uF 6.3V BIG: Body, wider and deeper sounstage, slightly warm
NCC SCC 220uF As SEPC but harsh: OUT!
LS 150uF As SEPC but slightly less warm, soundstage a bit wider VERY GOOD ALT.
Fujitsu 100uF As SEPC but quicker, slightly less warm, slightly deeper bass
C28
SEPC 470uF 6.3V BIG: fuller bass, wider and deeper sounstage, more refined, musical
NCC SCC 220uF As sopra but harsh: OUT!
Fujitsu 100uF As SEPC but slightly quicker and less warm, soundstage a bit wider, slightly deeper bass, musical VERY GOOD ALT.
LS 150uF As Fujitsu but più somewhat slower, slightly smaller soundstage
C33
Cerafine 10uF BIG: bass, authority, soundstage, reverbs
BG sTD 22 uF BIG: bass, authority
C35
BG sTD 22 uF BIG: bass, authority, soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
Cerafine 10uF BIG: bass, authority, soundstage, reverbs
C12,C15
No bypass NICE: bass, authority, soundstage, reverbs
SMR 100nF WORSE: Soundstage collapse
C20
No bypass BIG: soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
SMR 100nF BIG: As with no bypass but not as good
C18
No bypass NICE: soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
SMR 100nF WORSE: Soundstage collapse
C30
SEPC 470uF BIG: migliora soundstage, pulizia, bass più autorevole e controllato
LS 150uf As SEPC, slightly less warm
BC038 10 uf BIG: soundstage, cleaner
C32
BG STD 22uF BIG: soundstage, cleaner, bass gains authority and control
Cerafine 10uF Quite as BGs
BC028 47uF Quite as Cerafines with a bit of harshness but more authority
C19
No bypass NICE: soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
X7R bass is more present but bold, not controlled, smaller soundstage
SMR 100nF A bit better than X7R but somewhat more confused and muddy
C12,C15
No bypass NICE: soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
X7R bass is more present but bold, not controlled, smaller soundstage
SMR 100nF A bit better than X7R but somewhat more confused and muddy
I've also swapped the two 12V regulators with On Semi MC7812CTG/MC7912CTG: BIG improvement on bass, soundstage, cleaner sound.
As per Jean-Paul recommendation I'm using a heatsink on the 7812.
So I've updated the BOM, attached with some photos too
As always it's still a work in progress...
This week end I've done a lot of cap swapping and hearing with these results:
C1
FKP2 BIG: better control on bass, deeper soundstage, slightly more refined
C27,C29,C34,C31
BC038 47uF 63V BIG: fuller bass, wider and deeper sounstage, more refined
C8,C9,C21,C11
SMR 100nF BIG: wider soundstage, more reverbs, more refined
C3
BC038 100uF BIG: Body, soundstage, musical, better than solid
SEPC 470uF 6.3V BIG: Body, wider and deeper sounstage, slightly warm
NCC SCC 220uF As SEPC but harsh: OUT!
LS 150uF As SEPC but slightly less warm, soundstage a bit wider VERY GOOD ALT.
Fujitsu 100uF As SEPC but quicker, slightly less warm, slightly deeper bass
C28
SEPC 470uF 6.3V BIG: fuller bass, wider and deeper sounstage, more refined, musical
NCC SCC 220uF As sopra but harsh: OUT!
Fujitsu 100uF As SEPC but slightly quicker and less warm, soundstage a bit wider, slightly deeper bass, musical VERY GOOD ALT.
LS 150uF As Fujitsu but più somewhat slower, slightly smaller soundstage
C33
Cerafine 10uF BIG: bass, authority, soundstage, reverbs
BG sTD 22 uF BIG: bass, authority
C35
BG sTD 22 uF BIG: bass, authority, soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
Cerafine 10uF BIG: bass, authority, soundstage, reverbs
C12,C15
No bypass NICE: bass, authority, soundstage, reverbs
SMR 100nF WORSE: Soundstage collapse
C20
No bypass BIG: soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
SMR 100nF BIG: As with no bypass but not as good
C18
No bypass NICE: soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
SMR 100nF WORSE: Soundstage collapse
C30
SEPC 470uF BIG: migliora soundstage, pulizia, bass più autorevole e controllato
LS 150uf As SEPC, slightly less warm
BC038 10 uf BIG: soundstage, cleaner
C32
BG STD 22uF BIG: soundstage, cleaner, bass gains authority and control
Cerafine 10uF Quite as BGs
BC028 47uF Quite as Cerafines with a bit of harshness but more authority
C19
No bypass NICE: soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
X7R bass is more present but bold, not controlled, smaller soundstage
SMR 100nF A bit better than X7R but somewhat more confused and muddy
C12,C15
No bypass NICE: soundstage, reverbs, cleaner
X7R bass is more present but bold, not controlled, smaller soundstage
SMR 100nF A bit better than X7R but somewhat more confused and muddy
I've also swapped the two 12V regulators with On Semi MC7812CTG/MC7912CTG: BIG improvement on bass, soundstage, cleaner sound.
As per Jean-Paul recommendation I'm using a heatsink on the 7812.
So I've updated the BOM, attached with some photos too
As always it's still a work in progress...
Attachments
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Hi Clave,
I stand in awe ... how you have the time (and patience) to go through these combinations is just amazing.
I am keeping track of the changes carefully. Now that my board has arrived I can see that it would not stand up to a lot of component pulling... so I want to get as much right as possible on the first shot
Thanks for all the patience and effort
George
I stand in awe ... how you have the time (and patience) to go through these combinations is just amazing.
I am keeping track of the changes carefully. Now that my board has arrived I can see that it would not stand up to a lot of component pulling... so I want to get as much right as possible on the first shot
Thanks for all the patience and effort
George
Thanks, George.
The secret is the use of sockets.
You don't destroy the PCB and cap swapping is fast and easy.
Sorry, just noted part of the test remained in Italian...
C30
SEPC 470uF BIG: better soundstage, cleaner, bass gains authority and control
An additional note.
Here a 22-47uF cap is needed, IMHO.
I'm waiting 22uf Cerafines to try.
Thanks, George.
The secret is the use of sockets.
You don't destroy the PCB and cap swapping is fast and easy.
I guess I am going to need a stack of sockets... I hope there is enough space for all the combinations ... in the past I have been talked out of sockets because of possible affects on sound quality. Personally I have never noticed anything bad... but do you have some recommended sockets from this point of view?
George
These are very good quality ones:
Buy Connector IC Sockets Socket,IC,SIP,2.54mm,Sn/Au,10P Tyco Electronics 1814655-7 online from RS for next day delivery.
BTW remember that they're mounted only for the testing phase, after component selection is complete they're removed and components directly soldered.
If you made an order from RS Components remember to order also the heatsink:
Buy Heat Sinks HEATSINK FK237-SA-2 Fischer FK237SA2200 online from RS for next day delivery.
In the next days I'll post a real BOM with RS and Mouser order codes.
Next Step
Hi Clave,
with one more step I can see a business starting up for you with this.
A few favorable comparisons of the modified boards with some "industry standard" DACs would kick it off.
Also, a stepped approach to the modifications.. for example a Level 1 modification might focus on best ROI, so (perhaps) filtering, a Level 2 perhaps on power supply (as well as including the Level 1 mods) and so on... it would give a focus as opposed to a Grand Slam
I see a Group Buy starting up for level 1, 2, etc (still to be defined) upgrade kits .. any takers?
Hi Clave,
with one more step I can see a business starting up for you with this.
A few favorable comparisons of the modified boards with some "industry standard" DACs would kick it off.
Also, a stepped approach to the modifications.. for example a Level 1 modification might focus on best ROI, so (perhaps) filtering, a Level 2 perhaps on power supply (as well as including the Level 1 mods) and so on... it would give a focus as opposed to a Grand Slam
I see a Group Buy starting up for level 1, 2, etc (still to be defined) upgrade kits .. any takers?
Hi,
I just received an AK4396 board too, still not 200h burned in, but I was already thinking of some mods too. 7X12 reg are running hot ! And LPF values soldered on my board are also the one for AK4393. However first impression about sound is good.
@clave:
Impressive frantic cap swap session ! Be sure to give time to SEPC caps, they may need some before delivering their final taste.
About removing C12/C15, did you scope the rectified signal ? I thought it may be interesting to also try a different rectifier bridge, with some faster diodes (MUR820 or equivalent).
I just received an AK4396 board too, still not 200h burned in, but I was already thinking of some mods too. 7X12 reg are running hot ! And LPF values soldered on my board are also the one for AK4393. However first impression about sound is good.
@clave:
Impressive frantic cap swap session ! Be sure to give time to SEPC caps, they may need some before delivering their final taste.
About removing C12/C15, did you scope the rectified signal ? I thought it may be interesting to also try a different rectifier bridge, with some faster diodes (MUR820 or equivalent).