Hi all, could I please confirm that I have not experimented with the caps in the Da Capo the way I did with the jadis. I just put in what ever I happen to have around at the time. I just happen to have 4700 uf black gates as standard and cerafine 15000 uf - note far more uf than john had used. However, these would probably have been my first choice cap manufacturers if not size.
I think if you are still keen to find out where I fitted them I can email a picture, please drop me a line.
Any one have any more news on Johns new products? I hope the other companies he is also catering for will not restrict his ability to market his own products??
I think if you are still keen to find out where I fitted them I can email a picture, please drop me a line.
Any one have any more news on Johns new products? I hope the other companies he is also catering for will not restrict his ability to market his own products??
Could you upload the photo to this thread?
Did you use just one pair of each type? What voltage? Did you buy the Cerafines recently?
15,000u at 25V or more would pretty big, ie 40mm diameter by 80mm. Those BG are 40mm dia, I have a pair joined to my old 7350 DAC.
Are the rest of the caps on your Da-capo the originals then?
Did you use just one pair of each type? What voltage? Did you buy the Cerafines recently?
15,000u at 25V or more would pretty big, ie 40mm diameter by 80mm. Those BG are 40mm dia, I have a pair joined to my old 7350 DAC.
Are the rest of the caps on your Da-capo the originals then?
Hi Ian,
the cerafines were actually bought last year at a very cheap price from a ebay seller in Hong Kong. They are big, but fortunately for a tweaker like me. the da capo unit is a dream it has so much spare space inside it for adding large components. The Cerafines have therefore been actually glued onto the chassis with pure copper wires connecting them to the board. The black gates are not that big and fitted right onto the board. I will have to change them shortly as they are underrated in voltage at only 16v. yes i know not very clever, but i just wanted to get a hold on the sound they might produce.
The black gates were put in positions which acted mostly as first stage filters. The cerafines then used for the final filter and storage before directly entering the main circuit board. So I presume ultimately the sound rests on their characteristics.
Those surface mounted caps and resistors also look ultimately tweakable with petp caps and the cheap but in my opinion excellent kiwame resistors. However, before I do that and here is a tweak not often done but in my opinion again a very important one. I will place dc to dc converters between the main circuit board and the cerafines, preferably 1:1, as there is not much voltage to play with. The ones I use are made by Acopian, cheaply bought from ebay from the USA. I swear i had difficulty telling the difference apart on my michell iso phono stage when i supplied it with lead acid battery power supply and the dc dc voltage converter used after standard recs and caps from a mains supply. I have used the Acopian for valve dc heater supply, again same thing sound becomes very refined and has a blacker background allowing more low level details to come through i.e like a battery!!
For all of you not into tweaking in this manner, the real king is John's design, these tweaks simply enable us to get the maximum from his design and I still wonder what potential lies in the old Da capo. Without John's original design, these tweaks would have been of minimal benefit on lesser designs.
I will see if I can work out how to get a photograph onto this site.
the cerafines were actually bought last year at a very cheap price from a ebay seller in Hong Kong. They are big, but fortunately for a tweaker like me. the da capo unit is a dream it has so much spare space inside it for adding large components. The Cerafines have therefore been actually glued onto the chassis with pure copper wires connecting them to the board. The black gates are not that big and fitted right onto the board. I will have to change them shortly as they are underrated in voltage at only 16v. yes i know not very clever, but i just wanted to get a hold on the sound they might produce.
The black gates were put in positions which acted mostly as first stage filters. The cerafines then used for the final filter and storage before directly entering the main circuit board. So I presume ultimately the sound rests on their characteristics.
Those surface mounted caps and resistors also look ultimately tweakable with petp caps and the cheap but in my opinion excellent kiwame resistors. However, before I do that and here is a tweak not often done but in my opinion again a very important one. I will place dc to dc converters between the main circuit board and the cerafines, preferably 1:1, as there is not much voltage to play with. The ones I use are made by Acopian, cheaply bought from ebay from the USA. I swear i had difficulty telling the difference apart on my michell iso phono stage when i supplied it with lead acid battery power supply and the dc dc voltage converter used after standard recs and caps from a mains supply. I have used the Acopian for valve dc heater supply, again same thing sound becomes very refined and has a blacker background allowing more low level details to come through i.e like a battery!!
For all of you not into tweaking in this manner, the real king is John's design, these tweaks simply enable us to get the maximum from his design and I still wonder what potential lies in the old Da capo. Without John's original design, these tweaks would have been of minimal benefit on lesser designs.
I will see if I can work out how to get a photograph onto this site.
A pic is worth a thousand words. Only a lot quicker to read 
Good, thanks. Interesting job with those whacking big caps for the output stage
I see, 16V BG's with a narrow case size. That explains how they fit.
I have the 4700@35V standard and they are 40mm x 40mm.
Michael Percy is listing a black gate FK 2200@35V in the 18mm x 35mm case size @ £13 each.
Thanks for the DC : DC tip. Something to try
Have you tried Vishay resistors? A bit of a tricky mod as that analogue stage's all surface mount.
Good, thanks. Interesting job with those whacking big caps for the output stage
I see, 16V BG's with a narrow case size. That explains how they fit.
I have the 4700@35V standard and they are 40mm x 40mm.
Michael Percy is listing a black gate FK 2200@35V in the 18mm x 35mm case size @ £13 each.
Thanks for the DC : DC tip. Something to try
Have you tried Vishay resistors? A bit of a tricky mod as that analogue stage's all surface mount.
Hi Ian, I have tried Vishays in the past. As you may have already gathered i like a little distorsion in my sound in the form of valves. The kiwames have the wonderful ability to draw out rich tonal colours which adds an emotional dimension to the music, and will leave an impression on you immediately on switch on for better or worse. Better IMO than the other carbon based elite resistors. Now another a little secret. These resistors are relabelled, like a lot of products in the far east. They can be had for pennies from Mouse electronics under the company/model name SPR2. I have a feeling they will be symbiotic with the da capo.
It is messy replacing surface mount caps but I have done it before on a couple of occasions. Any surface mount cap that is removed for obvious space reasons cannot be replaced directly on the board. Like the Cerafines, (and this I promise you does get messy, but works)I would mount the PETP caps, probably in stacks of 4-5 very close to the circuit board and have a short as possible copper wires to connect them to the circuit board cap terminals. Now I know it is well documented that very short wires should be used. But quite honestly I have never in all the many conversions I have done in this manner, ever noticed even with leads of several inches or so detriment to the sound. What i can say, is that i have not done many for surface mount products, so not sure of the probable outcome on this one. V. Short signal path and all that.
Luke
It is messy replacing surface mount caps but I have done it before on a couple of occasions. Any surface mount cap that is removed for obvious space reasons cannot be replaced directly on the board. Like the Cerafines, (and this I promise you does get messy, but works)I would mount the PETP caps, probably in stacks of 4-5 very close to the circuit board and have a short as possible copper wires to connect them to the circuit board cap terminals. Now I know it is well documented that very short wires should be used. But quite honestly I have never in all the many conversions I have done in this manner, ever noticed even with leads of several inches or so detriment to the sound. What i can say, is that i have not done many for surface mount products, so not sure of the probable outcome on this one. V. Short signal path and all that.
Luke
replacement caps
hi guys
still not sure what to do about my capacitors. the cerafines are apparently very hard to come by, the black gates expensive and i am not wholly convinced about the qualities of oscons. are there any other makes i could consider that won't detract too much from the original sound of the da capo?
thanks in advance
frank
hi guys
still not sure what to do about my capacitors. the cerafines are apparently very hard to come by, the black gates expensive and i am not wholly convinced about the qualities of oscons. are there any other makes i could consider that won't detract too much from the original sound of the da capo?
thanks in advance
frank
Hi JohnW:
Other Happy Ordinal DAC user in Hong Kong, recently searching here for DIY information and discovered this long thread (yes, I spent a night to read them all!!), never think of some PT digital products still get support here!!! Great Job, I think you are both busy and happy about your old great product. and all your upcoming DAC sound very exciting to me and make me keep my eye on it.
It's pretty hard to obtain DaCapo in Hong Kong, also for the DAC and filter Module too.
My Ordinal still fine and no leaked cap yet, but one of the input slot seems have some contact problem for input 1, and the input card was swapped to input 2 slot for continual musical service.
So I decided before my Ordinal becomes totally breakdown and flooded by electrolytic fluid, I would like to give it a new life. If I send it to you (Hong Kong to Hong Kong, direct enough ) and recap them, please PM me for the price. and any upgrade can perform Ordinal?
Hopefully I'm not adding extra burden on you, and hope you have great success with your new line of product!!
Hercules
Other Happy Ordinal DAC user in Hong Kong, recently searching here for DIY information and discovered this long thread (yes, I spent a night to read them all!!), never think of some PT digital products still get support here!!! Great Job, I think you are both busy and happy about your old great product. and all your upcoming DAC sound very exciting to me and make me keep my eye on it.
It's pretty hard to obtain DaCapo in Hong Kong, also for the DAC and filter Module too.
My Ordinal still fine and no leaked cap yet, but one of the input slot seems have some contact problem for input 1, and the input card was swapped to input 2 slot for continual musical service.
So I decided before my Ordinal becomes totally breakdown and flooded by electrolytic fluid, I would like to give it a new life. If I send it to you (Hong Kong to Hong Kong, direct enough
) and recap them, please PM me for the price. and any upgrade can perform Ordinal?Hopefully I'm not adding extra burden on you, and hope you have great success with your new line of product!!
Hercules
Hi Rasp, i think if you read widely on DIY sites the low esr panasonics are probably a safe bet, cheap and readily available especially through RS components. I have used various versions of these often with a similar outcome. In my experience (which is not extensive)they add a slight but very pleasing tonal warmth to the sound and usually you notice the bass lines sounding more potent. They remain relatively transparent and do not lose pace and timing. However, IMO the pleasing tonal warmth that they do add rarely detract from the original message and in my opinion tend to enhance it. But they are not in the same league as Black gates or cerafines in terms of extracting those extra fine details which add to the complex harmonic structures of notes which in turn gives you that spine tingling feeling of 'presence'.
Luke
Luke
I agree...we are desperate...
I have just as well exchanged the lytics in my dacapo. With a mixture of Pnasonic FC and Cerafines- The resokution is breathtaking. It still sound a bit metallic though, but the cerafines normally need weeks to break in, so let's wait for 2 weeks and than do some serios listening...
I have an Accuphase DC801 here...the dacapo indeed wipes the floor with it....when was this thing designed ? 1991 ?
I have just as well exchanged the lytics in my dacapo. With a mixture of Pnasonic FC and Cerafines- The resokution is breathtaking. It still sound a bit metallic though, but the cerafines normally need weeks to break in, so let's wait for 2 weeks and than do some serios listening...
I have an Accuphase DC801 here...the dacapo indeed wipes the floor with it....when was this thing designed ? 1991 ?
The cerafines I used are widely avialble. These are the 1000uF/25V Types. See http://www.audio-cube.nl/ for example. I just had only 8 pieces here at home. If I would have had more of them, I would use them exclusivly as mixing caps is not always a great idea. So, If I would be you, I would order 16 or 18 of these and forget the Panasonics. The price you have to pay is that you leave the DAC always on...the cerafines need this to sound really good (as the blackgates)
blitz
sorry if this is a stupid question but the caps inside my dac say 2200uf 25v. does it not matter, therefore if they are replaced by 1000uf ones like you have. also how important is the voltage as i have seen someone selling a batch of 2200uf 16v cerafines???
thanks in advance, i am not very technically knowledgable
frank
sorry if this is a stupid question but the caps inside my dac say 2200uf 25v. does it not matter, therefore if they are replaced by 1000uf ones like you have. also how important is the voltage as i have seen someone selling a batch of 2200uf 16v cerafines???
thanks in advance, i am not very technically knowledgable
frank