Will be getting this varnish to try out on the paper hardening.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Yeh Ghemmi
It is so true. An accurate loudspeaker will reveal any weakness in the chain. The lack of efficiency is the Achilles heel of the Geman Physics Unicorn MK II. Like I said no free lunch.
Follow the link I provided to the Troels Graveson site & his test on the Manger bending wave transducer. BIG distortion issues @ high levels around 1.6 KHz. I've heard these as a 2 way similar to the one tested. That was @ levels that this issue was not apparent. But non linearity was an issue for me. Namely a dip after 1 KHz.
Dammar was made famous or infamous whichever way you want to look at it by a Guy also from Soligen Germany. Charles Altmann
Mother of Tone & BYOB website. I have seen too many well engineered decent drivers ruined by this stuff & then discreetly
disposed of on eBay or Gumtree. The opposite has also been true.
Your milage may vary. There is no magic formula.
Cheers Mark.
It is so true. An accurate loudspeaker will reveal any weakness in the chain. The lack of efficiency is the Achilles heel of the Geman Physics Unicorn MK II. Like I said no free lunch.
Follow the link I provided to the Troels Graveson site & his test on the Manger bending wave transducer. BIG distortion issues @ high levels around 1.6 KHz. I've heard these as a 2 way similar to the one tested. That was @ levels that this issue was not apparent. But non linearity was an issue for me. Namely a dip after 1 KHz.
Dammar was made famous or infamous whichever way you want to look at it by a Guy also from Soligen Germany. Charles Altmann
Mother of Tone & BYOB website. I have seen too many well engineered decent drivers ruined by this stuff & then discreetly
disposed of on eBay or Gumtree. The opposite has also been true.
Your milage may vary. There is no magic formula.
Cheers Mark.
What you guys are discussing here is mind boggling to me. Great, but heavy. I can't believe some of you are going into such depths to understand FR drivers. However, I find myself more and more interested in drivers, not only enclosures, that's why I am glad to have a thread like this to read.
I noticed there were veneers mentioned a page or two back... and that Voxativ also uses veneer for their drivers. I know they look sexy, and from what I hear, they sound great. So why not investigating into use of veneers for cones? What's with that deal? Did not want to open a new thread just for that, and I hope this isn't too much garbage for this one... Just got me thinking, we have old forests of spruce here in Slovenia that Stradivarius used for his violins. Sounds like a sales pitch so far, but maybe there is something worth investigating?
I noticed there were veneers mentioned a page or two back... and that Voxativ also uses veneer for their drivers. I know they look sexy, and from what I hear, they sound great. So why not investigating into use of veneers for cones? What's with that deal? Did not want to open a new thread just for that, and I hope this isn't too much garbage for this one... Just got me thinking, we have old forests of spruce here in Slovenia that Stradivarius used for his violins. Sounds like a sales pitch so far, but maybe there is something worth investigating?
@theaudiopath
I believe Manger diaphragm could be mylar, though I'm not too sure. The distortion could be mostly due to mechanical reasons. And I been annoyed by request from friends to develop planar headphones. But my key interest is FR drivers and tweeters
. Maybe I could design a paper tweeter, which I find vintage paper tweeters from Onkyo sound sooooo smoothing...
btw I have some success and also failure hardening paper. I used a 190gsm Mulberry paper, painted in a mixture of Elmer wood glue(The yellow ones) and water. After hanging it to dry overnight, and it still feel rather soft. Then I switch to using cloth ironing, to further dry up any excess moisture. Right after the hot ironing the paper stiffen and feels like a card form, but when it cools down it returns back to its original softness. I don't know what am I missing here but I will try using paper mache glue to try out tomorrow, 50/50 water + flour.
@peroz
We did talk about veneer for constructing the cone earlier, and quite fairly easy to acquire them too. The only drawback is veneer off the shelf is, I might not able to choose the weight so easily. Most of the 6.5" fullrange I had analyzed, are commonly between 6 to 7 grams which include the whizzle cone and VC. Damper and surround should take around 1/3. Supravox 6.5" is 5.5g probably due to the absence of a whizzle cone. And so the veneer has to be around 170 to 200 (gsm). I still wondering how Voxativ cut the whole veneer cone out in a single piece, bloody amazing....
I did thought of maple wood maybe I would give it a try after done more research on it.
Now I need to master the art of paper hardening
I believe Manger diaphragm could be mylar, though I'm not too sure. The distortion could be mostly due to mechanical reasons. And I been annoyed by request from friends to develop planar headphones. But my key interest is FR drivers and tweeters
. Maybe I could design a paper tweeter, which I find vintage paper tweeters from Onkyo sound sooooo smoothing...btw I have some success and also failure
hardening paper. I used a 190gsm Mulberry paper, painted in a mixture of Elmer wood glue(The yellow ones) and water. After hanging it to dry overnight, and it still feel rather soft. Then I switch to using cloth ironing, to further dry up any excess moisture. Right after the hot ironing the paper stiffen and feels like a card form, but when it cools down it returns back to its original softness. I don't know what am I missing here but I will try using paper mache glue to try out tomorrow, 50/50 water + flour.@peroz
We did talk about veneer for constructing the cone earlier, and quite fairly easy to acquire them too. The only drawback is veneer off the shelf is, I might not able to choose the weight so easily. Most of the 6.5" fullrange I had analyzed, are commonly between 6 to 7 grams which include the whizzle cone and VC. Damper and surround should take around 1/3. Supravox 6.5" is 5.5g probably due to the absence of a whizzle cone. And so the veneer has to be around 170 to 200 (gsm). I still wondering how Voxativ cut the whole veneer cone out in a single piece, bloody amazing....
I did thought of maple wood maybe I would give it a try after done more research on it.
Now I need to master the art of paper hardening
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This is how I make my cones
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Hi Ghemmi
Couldn't agree more about the excellent sound of the Hokotone (Onkyo) paper cone tweeters. Actually posted an article about it here titled Acoustic Suspension Revisited.
I think a visit to your local university is a very good idea. They may have much of the information you seek on paper production for speakers and if not will have links to a university that does. With Voxativ yeah they are amazing but ownership for the average hobbyist @ those prices remains for most a dream. I'm even though my heritage is German dreaming of the day when someone in aisia reverse engineers their wood cone tech and makes similar quality available @ a third of the price.
Cheers Mark
Couldn't agree more about the excellent sound of the Hokotone (Onkyo) paper cone tweeters. Actually posted an article about it here titled Acoustic Suspension Revisited.
I think a visit to your local university is a very good idea. They may have much of the information you seek on paper production for speakers and if not will have links to a university that does. With Voxativ yeah they are amazing but ownership for the average hobbyist @ those prices remains for most a dream. I'm even though my heritage is German dreaming of the day when someone in aisia reverse engineers their wood cone tech and makes similar quality available @ a third of the price.
Cheers Mark
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Ghemml,
That is fantastic work. Can you show a picture of the Driver with the Surrounds and how do you attach the Surrounds to the Cone ?
Paper Backed Veneers may be available in 250 GSM and could be used with a reasonable compromise for Cones.
Jayant
@peroz
We did talk about veneer for constructing the cone earlier, and quite fairly easy to acquire them too. The only drawback is veneer off the shelf is, I might not able to choose the weight so easily. Most of the 6.5" fullrange I had analyzed, are commonly between 6 to 7 grams which include the whizzle cone and VC. Damper and surround should take around 1/3. Supravox 6.5" is 5.5g probably due to the absence of a whizzle cone. And so the veneer has to be around 170 to 200 (gsm). I still wondering how Voxativ cut the whole veneer cone out in a single piece, bloody amazing....
I did thought of maple wood maybe I would give it a try after done more research on it.
Now I need to master the art of paper hardening
I don't think voxativ cut their cone in one piece. Looks like 3 (or more) pieces "stiched" on the back side or maybe a 2 ply design. I don't know why, but it looks very doable to me
Plus, a lot of headroom for grain direction experimenting. Maybe vibrations travel through wood at different speeds if they go with grain or across it. Should reduce bell modes that way... but then again, who am I to question Mercedes Benz engineers.
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Singapore university concentrated more on the major industry. So mainly I rely on Japan, Malaysia and China for some of the manufacturing process. But wood veneer as a try out, probably I use the same method for my paper cone. I have vendors here selling raw veneer without any paper backing. Need to talk to them more their veneer range they carry.
I glue the cone to the surround with the cone placed top down. I post up the photo bit later, so you will understand it better.
Cannot use paper back venner, must be raw veneer and untreated.
I don't think voxativ cut their cone in one piece. Looks like 3 (or more) pieces "stiched" on the back side or maybe a 2 ply design. I don't know why, but it looks very doable to me
Plus, a lot of headroom for grain direction experimenting. Maybe vibrations travel through wood at different speeds if they go with grain or across it. Should reduce bell modes that way... but then again, who am I to question Mercedes Benz engineers.
I saw the raw veneer at my vendor workshop, they have a few types of raw veneer. No paper backing and untreated, they get moldy very easily. Maybe the best approach I can think of now is to use the same method I used for my paper. Thickness need to be even throughout though.
Wood self damping is much different from paper, one major reason why the acoustic behavior is so different.
Can be done, using the cheap and dirty method... Copper plate the pole piece. I will probably do this for the field coil motor which I had design.
Start flour and water mixture today, 1 tablespoon of flour and 1/2 cup of water. Cook it in the microwave for 10 to 15sec to get the thick translucence paste. Add bit more water to dilute, then used a brush to brush the paste over the paper (Front and Back)
Now hang it up to dry overnight then follow by hot press over the cloth ironing.
If this works out... probably could be lowther cones uses this method and are bio-degradable
Now hang it up to dry overnight then follow by hot press over the cloth ironing.
If this works out... probably could be lowther cones uses this method and are bio-degradable
Close up on the surrounds as requested
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I also find rubber not suitable for fullrange, they are too heavy and thick.
The foam I used was originally used on Hivi, I selected it after searching through a vendor's inventory which is thin and soft.
The only recone kit which I'm very interested in is the lowther surround kit I found on ebay.
Lowther PM6A Sicke Speaker Home Refoaming Surrounds Kit 205 | eBay
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