Banned
Joined 2002
We must really be a sick band of perverted men here. We grasp at each and every little thing that hits the market promising to bring extended performance to our audio gear. What is worse is that some have the knowledge and logic to know the difference between BS and fact and no one will listen to them.
Granted this thread is on fuses but I will expand some what granted the moderator will allow this.
Lets take speakers... Some will spend $$$$ of dollars for expensive wires to go from their amps to feed the speakers. Has anyone ever gone inside the speaker cabinet and seen the 18ga wire or smaller feeding the individual devices? Yet, lets do this right boys and put the money where it counts?
Lets look at those fantastic interconnect cables shall we? They all promise to deliver a remarkable increase in sonic quality. Why? Because we can hear it, right? Can we measure it? Can we really prove it other than we THINK we hear a difference?
Lets not stop here.. How about the remarkable snake oil coating material that promises some remarkable gain. What was spent there in terms of response? Something like 30 pages or so with tempers getting heated and no positive proof given.
Hell, we can expand to capacitors, resistors, silver wire,
plated tube sockets, plated chassis, and many more topics that are guaranteed to fill the server to its capacity. We each seem to have your own ideas about each and every topic and it is unfortunate that logic and sound reasoning seem to have escaped us.
Lets go back to plain logic shall we?
Granted this thread is on fuses but I will expand some what granted the moderator will allow this.
Lets take speakers... Some will spend $$$$ of dollars for expensive wires to go from their amps to feed the speakers. Has anyone ever gone inside the speaker cabinet and seen the 18ga wire or smaller feeding the individual devices? Yet, lets do this right boys and put the money where it counts?
Lets look at those fantastic interconnect cables shall we? They all promise to deliver a remarkable increase in sonic quality. Why? Because we can hear it, right? Can we measure it? Can we really prove it other than we THINK we hear a difference?
Lets not stop here.. How about the remarkable snake oil coating material that promises some remarkable gain. What was spent there in terms of response? Something like 30 pages or so with tempers getting heated and no positive proof given.
Hell, we can expand to capacitors, resistors, silver wire,
plated tube sockets, plated chassis, and many more topics that are guaranteed to fill the server to its capacity. We each seem to have your own ideas about each and every topic and it is unfortunate that logic and sound reasoning seem to have escaped us.
Lets go back to plain logic shall we?
Hi Joe,
I think there are some of us who just love to debate. I get in that mood some times. These outlets allow us to get "it" out in a direction that is non harmful.
Al,
Quasi,
Good imagery! I got a laugh after I figured it out. So true, but it's fun too.
-Chris
I think there are some of us who just love to debate. I get in that mood some times. These outlets allow us to get "it" out in a direction that is non harmful.
Al,
bevo538 started this fateful thread with the first post. Don't feel bad, I had to look around before I got it.
Quasi,
Good imagery! I got a laugh after I figured it out. So true, but it's fun too.
-Chris
It wouldn't hurt to get back to the basic point of a better fuse.bevo538 said:
I strongly dislike the sound of fuses. I have an even stronger dislike for welded voice coils.
Problem : The AC output passes through a poor mechanical connection.
Problem : Output series resistance screws up damping and and can cause ringing.
Problem : Poor mechanical connection between resistive element and end caps.
Problem : Glass housing is a good accoustic transducer which modulates the resistive element.
IF you want to protect your speakers you need to accept some trade-offs. If you must use fuses and If any of the above can be addressed then something can be gained.
Michael Elliot at Altavista is using the fuses in his Counterpoint amp upgrades. He does not sell the fuses.
People used to laugh about anyone wasting time playing with speaker wire, point to point wire or interconnects. Zip cord was fine.
No use trying anything better than cheap coax with cadmium plated rca connectors.
The people that laughed at me 20 years ago are paying $500 for a set of interconnects now. I build my own for $50
Fuses and holders CAN be improved.
$1500 power cord yep, that is nuts.
Ok then, I don't use a fuse in series with my speakers but if I did, I'd be concerned as to whether this fuse material had a temperature coefficient, and maybe a non-linear one at that (I am not sure of this occuring, but a graph would be beneficial).
Another point would be the crystal structure of the fusible material after a transient. Again I'm not sure, but would it perhaps resemble a dry solder joint?
Another point would be the crystal structure of the fusible material after a transient. Again I'm not sure, but would it perhaps resemble a dry solder joint?
mike in florida said:
Some people still do.
Peer pressure takes a while, but gets there in the end.
Good!
I'm sure they can, but it always comes back to my perennial question, which no one has yet answered. If it makes a difference, why have the instrumentation/ science guys measuring things way beyond anything we can experience not demanded better fuses?
Oh, and using fuses in the speaker rails is a poor way of protecting speakers. Much better to have OPS current protection and DC relays or a crowbar. If a fuse is to offer any protection to a driver it will be rated so low as to be significantly stressed during normal use. Read Self for details.
Mike in florida,
do not use fuses in the place they should not be used. Only a fool will give them in series with loudspeaker.
Same is for PSU, appropriate cap must be placed behind them to decrease effect of fuse resistance.
BTW, the resistance of fuses by different manufacturers is not the same at same fuse current rating.
do not use fuses in the place they should not be used. Only a fool will give them in series with loudspeaker.
Same is for PSU, appropriate cap must be placed behind them to decrease effect of fuse resistance.
BTW, the resistance of fuses by different manufacturers is not the same at same fuse current rating.
Yes, fuses in a speaker line will exhibit a level of compreshion in the output signal and should not be used in a hi-fi setup. In a PA though they could provide some protection where the sound quality is not as important.
Fuses in the DC supply rail will also provide some non-linearity at high powers. Decent size capacitors after the fuses help a little here.
A fuse in the main power feed is a must to stop the house burning down and is too de-coupled from the audio section to make any difference.
The logic that one fuse is better than another (other than things like speed) is nonsense when you consider how they work.
But I'm working on a different type of fuse that is completely linear until it's destruction. It involves a quality resistor of very low value, a few transistors, a filament and some plastic explosive.
Cheers
Fuses in the DC supply rail will also provide some non-linearity at high powers. Decent size capacitors after the fuses help a little here.
A fuse in the main power feed is a must to stop the house burning down and is too de-coupled from the audio section to make any difference.
The logic that one fuse is better than another (other than things like speed) is nonsense when you consider how they work.
But I'm working on a different type of fuse that is completely linear until it's destruction. It involves a quality resistor of very low value, a few transistors, a filament and some plastic explosive.
Cheers
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