Hello all,
I you can probably tell by now, I have this thing for needle speakers. I am definitely going to build one of these unless I find another excellent design.
Before starting the negociations with the wife, I need to do my homeworks. Cost wise, they will probably cost about the same. What I need to figure out is how they sound and what are the pros and cons of each speakers.
I would really appreciate reading your comments. That will definitely help me choose which one to build.
I you can probably tell by now, I have this thing for needle speakers. I am definitely going to build one of these unless I find another excellent design.
Before starting the negociations with the wife, I need to do my homeworks. Cost wise, they will probably cost about the same. What I need to figure out is how they sound and what are the pros and cons of each speakers.
I would really appreciate reading your comments. That will definitely help me choose which one to build.
More info please
I would also love to hear thoughts about the Elf Spires. They look great, and the technology is intriguing, but I can't find any info about them.
Does anyone have the basic stats (freq range, impedence, efficiency) on these speakers? Actual listening impression are also welcome
I would also love to hear thoughts about the Elf Spires. They look great, and the technology is intriguing, but I can't find any info about them.
Does anyone have the basic stats (freq range, impedence, efficiency) on these speakers? Actual listening impression are also welcome
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
responce then side by side with the GR AV3 at VSAC.
87 db
8 ohm
Think this will answer a few questions.
Al
www.rawacoustics.ca
That it does.
As the 871 is the tweeter in the Spires.
Off axis these are avery very good.
Danny listened for a few minutes and was stunned at the out put and when we told him the selling price he almost dropped a SPUD
These were not open to the public as we brought them in after hrs and let him as well as Dan from Adire ,and the new company Danny designed the line arrays for they were there as well.
This was just for the fact that we did not want to take away Danny's show area to display the Sires.Maybe at the next show CSS and RAW will have a room?
You never know.
As the 871 is the tweeter in the Spires.
Off axis these are avery very good.
Danny listened for a few minutes and was stunned at the out put and when we told him the selling price he almost dropped a SPUD
These were not open to the public as we brought them in after hrs and let him as well as Dan from Adire ,and the new company Danny designed the line arrays for they were there as well.
This was just for the fact that we did not want to take away Danny's show area to display the Sires.Maybe at the next show CSS and RAW will have a room?
You never know.
Jean-Pierre (a.k.a. fireman) and I have been having a dialog about my Isa design. For the record I would like to say that the Isa was an early project of mine and most definitely an experiment. I didn't expect it would picque the interest of so many. There are a couple of inherent problems with the design.
1. The vertical dispersion is not good. When you stand up you lose much of the HF response.
2. In the mid-range (acoustic guitar especially) it's a bit hollow.
I can see why CSS and others have not marketed a design like this. Even the Elf1.5 has given way to the SuperElf. I would recommend a driver setup similar to the Spires for this type of design. I have some other ideas for the 871s. Possibly bipole or dipole configurations but these are just thoughts for now. The Isa is not a total failure as it's much better than the MTM design it replaced in my home theater. I've found that HT applications are more forgiving than music applications.
1. The vertical dispersion is not good. When you stand up you lose much of the HF response.
2. In the mid-range (acoustic guitar especially) it's a bit hollow.
I can see why CSS and others have not marketed a design like this. Even the Elf1.5 has given way to the SuperElf. I would recommend a driver setup similar to the Spires for this type of design. I have some other ideas for the 871s. Possibly bipole or dipole configurations but these are just thoughts for now. The Isa is not a total failure as it's much better than the MTM design it replaced in my home theater. I've found that HT applications are more forgiving than music applications.
Thanks for the good info, RAW and Timn8ter.
RAW - I'm afraid I'm not reading your waterfall plot correctly (I think I'm used to seeing SPL on the y axis), at what freq. is the -3db bass fall off point?
Also, I'm curious as to whether the "tweeter" is crossed over from the other 4 drivers, or if it is reproducing the full range. If it is crossed over, does this create issues with tweeter volume changing (relative to the other drivers) as you get farther from the speakers? I think this effect has to do with different falloff rates of line sources vs. point sources.
RAW - I'm afraid I'm not reading your waterfall plot correctly (I think I'm used to seeing SPL on the y axis), at what freq. is the -3db bass fall off point?
Also, I'm curious as to whether the "tweeter" is crossed over from the other 4 drivers, or if it is reproducing the full range. If it is crossed over, does this create issues with tweeter volume changing (relative to the other drivers) as you get farther from the speakers? I think this effect has to do with different falloff rates of line sources vs. point sources.
the 871 is dropped off at 1000hz that is why you see the WF of only the 871.
This is the speaker complete both high and low drivers.
I have never set the 0 on MLSSA as MLSSA goes between locations and all I really care about is the final numbers.
The zero or X Y Z is not important till I want the final numbers put on paper.
But they are all measured correctly.
I just never set MLSSA to zero.
No big deal.
ALSO
I will get them in time all re done as CSS needs paper documents on the Spires as well I am doing a new design using the T2 tweeter from GR as I like the sound out of it.
And 4 of the OLDER W3-319S not the W3-319S1 as Nuera sells now.
All the W3-319S1 drivers CSS is getting for the Spires will soon be only available from CSS in a kit only.
As Billy from Nuera said they will not be getting any more 319S1 drivers in.
And Bob will not order 1000 of them.
So as I have a large number of the W3-319S and they tune lower than the new ones do I am going after a design for RAW ACOUSTICS that will use them and the T2 .
This was displayed at the NW DIY and those who listened loved them.
As well I am just finishing a MTM using the W6-789S and the T6 from GR as well.
These were also shown at the NW DIY .
The W6-789S are up at 93db not to bad for a MTM .
Al
This is the speaker complete both high and low drivers.
I have never set the 0 on MLSSA as MLSSA goes between locations and all I really care about is the final numbers.
The zero or X Y Z is not important till I want the final numbers put on paper.
But they are all measured correctly.
I just never set MLSSA to zero.
No big deal.
ALSO
I will get them in time all re done as CSS needs paper documents on the Spires as well I am doing a new design using the T2 tweeter from GR as I like the sound out of it.
And 4 of the OLDER W3-319S not the W3-319S1 as Nuera sells now.
All the W3-319S1 drivers CSS is getting for the Spires will soon be only available from CSS in a kit only.
As Billy from Nuera said they will not be getting any more 319S1 drivers in.
And Bob will not order 1000 of them.
So as I have a large number of the W3-319S and they tune lower than the new ones do I am going after a design for RAW ACOUSTICS that will use them and the T2 .
This was displayed at the NW DIY and those who listened loved them.
As well I am just finishing a MTM using the W6-789S and the T6 from GR as well.
These were also shown at the NW DIY .
The W6-789S are up at 93db not to bad for a MTM .
Al
Spires center design
21X5X8.5"
WXHXD
Using 1/2MDF or changed volume for .75" MDF
With the 871 in the middle not the end.
As well tuned higher with a different xover point than the Spires.
These are moving very well as CSS just posted a 5.1 system with them.
So I have not got all the documents yet for high over looked.
As well I have just measured the CSX 10" with the Hypex in the piano black cube with and with out BH5 installed for him as well.
Still new but I will get a finished model posted soon.
Al
www.rawacoustics.ca
21X5X8.5"
WXHXD
Using 1/2MDF or changed volume for .75" MDF
With the 871 in the middle not the end.
As well tuned higher with a different xover point than the Spires.
These are moving very well as CSS just posted a 5.1 system with them.
So I have not got all the documents yet for high over looked.
As well I have just measured the CSX 10" with the Hypex in the piano black cube with and with out BH5 installed for him as well.
Still new but I will get a finished model posted soon.
Al
www.rawacoustics.ca
RAW said:
That's interesting, but moving_electron and I are interested in the bass reproduction capabilities of the Spires. Especially since I'm not even sure what to reasonably expect from a line of 3" drivers.
Al - Can you give us an idea of the lower freq range of these speakers, and/or characterize their bass reproduction capabilities?
Thanks,
Michael
And yes, planet10, "Hagabard" is an Illuminatus! Trilogy reference, and my gold sub is in the shop
(Friends call me Michael - Now that we're introduced, how about taking me off of moderation?)
Hagbard said:And yes, planet10, "Hagabard" is an Illuminatus! Trilogy reference, and my gold sub is in the shop
Brilliant Book. And Robert Anton is quite the character.
You are off moderation -- you passed the nominal 5 posts
dave
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