Hi guys.
I will 'fess up straight away, I am an active guy. Which means I could not design a passive crossover to save my life.
So I am asking for a quick design if someone could oblige.
Background. I want to do an experiment with my system, and simply want to cross the tweeter to the mid.
The tweeter is a morel et338-104, the morel pdf seems a bit light on data tho! here is what madisound list for it, hope it is sufficient. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8195
The mid is a PHL 1360. arrgghh, am having a lot of trouble finding the parameters for it to give you. Evidently they are similar to the 1260 if that helps. I hope one of you 'hoarders' out there have the parameters stored in a database!
I can if it would help post the measurements of them.
I currently cross them at 2800, and the main idea would be to protect the tweeter really, so suficient slope to do that. I am not worried about topology, whatever works. Well, I guess I am against first order! The top of the PHL can be a bit scratchy I think. Hard to remember, I usually cross it at 96 db slopes. Phase yada yada will be handled, so that aspect does not fit in as a problem which crossover to decide on.
Then again, I am just blithering cause I don't really know enough about it! So will answer questions only. (is 48 too much??)
What I am going to do (I assume most would have an idea of what the dcx is and does). I don't use the dcx but a much better unit, but this is just to explain.
Rather than having an output to each, I want to try 'combining' the two drivers together with the passive, then measuring and correcting the two as a unit. Ie one output does both, and frees an output for use elsewhere.
Is there any other data you need from me? I will try and find the parameters of the 1360, if worst comes to worst I know someone who has a driver, and presumably he can run it thru his tester whatever it is, spits out all the parameters for you.
Thanks for reading.
I will 'fess up straight away, I am an active guy. Which means I could not design a passive crossover to save my life.
So I am asking for a quick design if someone could oblige.
Background. I want to do an experiment with my system, and simply want to cross the tweeter to the mid.
The tweeter is a morel et338-104, the morel pdf seems a bit light on data tho! here is what madisound list for it, hope it is sufficient. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8195
The mid is a PHL 1360. arrgghh, am having a lot of trouble finding the parameters for it to give you. Evidently they are similar to the 1260 if that helps. I hope one of you 'hoarders' out there have the parameters stored in a database!
I can if it would help post the measurements of them.
I currently cross them at 2800, and the main idea would be to protect the tweeter really, so suficient slope to do that. I am not worried about topology, whatever works. Well, I guess I am against first order! The top of the PHL can be a bit scratchy I think. Hard to remember, I usually cross it at 96 db slopes. Phase yada yada will be handled, so that aspect does not fit in as a problem which crossover to decide on.
Then again, I am just blithering cause I don't really know enough about it! So will answer questions only. (is 48 too much??)
What I am going to do (I assume most would have an idea of what the dcx is and does). I don't use the dcx but a much better unit, but this is just to explain.
Rather than having an output to each, I want to try 'combining' the two drivers together with the passive, then measuring and correcting the two as a unit. Ie one output does both, and frees an output for use elsewhere.
Is there any other data you need from me? I will try and find the parameters of the 1360, if worst comes to worst I know someone who has a driver, and presumably he can run it thru his tester whatever it is, spits out all the parameters for you.
Thanks for reading.
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ORCA Design & Manufacturing
this should be close enough? It is the 16 ohm version of the 1360. I hope the only thing that substantially changes is the resistance, but I don't know.
OOH! just found one. same place. Hmm, I did a google search on 1360, it sent me to the 1370 yet did not pick up on the same sire they had the 1360. Odd.
http://www.orcadesign.com/products/phl/1360.htm
this should be close enough? It is the 16 ohm version of the 1360. I hope the only thing that substantially changes is the resistance, but I don't know.
OOH! just found one. same place. Hmm, I did a google search on 1360, it sent me to the 1370 yet did not pick up on the same sire they had the 1360. Odd.
http://www.orcadesign.com/products/phl/1360.htm
Terry I'm not going to offer beginners advice on a driver that expensive, I just want to know what the finished use will be??
How are the Frankenfellas going???
Almost always a second order on a tweeter, if Fs is at 700 then at least 1500 but better 2100Hz, I can't give any better beginners advice than to ask for a more expert opinion but a waterfall plot of the woofer would help them a lot
Regards
Ted
How are the Frankenfellas going???
Almost always a second order on a tweeter, if Fs is at 700 then at least 1500 but better 2100Hz, I can't give any better beginners advice than to ask for a more expert opinion but a waterfall plot of the woofer would help them a lot
Regards
Ted
haha, that's a BIG secret for now Ted. But preliminary experiments are, hmm, astounding.
Thinking of changing the name of the franks, all will be revealed at the bathurst gtg. You in this year??
Waterfall, that would only be of interest at the bottom end would it not? If it is being crossed around 2800, does it matter?? I too know nothing of passive network design.
If this experiment works, and don't see why not, then a rebuild of the baffle will be required.
hey, ain't it lucky I had the foresight (insert maniacal laughter >here<) to make it a detachable baffle hahaha.
Nahh, just damn good luck.
Thinking of changing the name of the franks, all will be revealed at the bathurst gtg. You in this year??
Waterfall, that would only be of interest at the bottom end would it not? If it is being crossed around 2800, does it matter?? I too know nothing of passive network design.
If this experiment works, and don't see why not, then a rebuild of the baffle will be required.
hey, ain't it lucky I had the foresight (insert maniacal laughter >here<) to make it a detachable baffle hahaha.
Nahh, just damn good luck.
Interesting driver ,yes . Seeing that a man from a german reseller of PHL has just joined the forum makes me happy ,too .
As for waterfalls , I think they're quite useful from start to end , if well done ,which may be difficult ,being ambient dependant ....
A natural decay slope towards the end (HF) would be always welcomed.
For the tw/Xo problem , I guess Moondog has many resources and has already
some calculations in process for you ,right ?
As for waterfalls , I think they're quite useful from start to end , if well done ,which may be difficult ,being ambient dependant ....
A natural decay slope towards the end (HF) would be always welcomed.
For the tw/Xo problem , I guess Moondog has many resources and has already
some calculations in process for you ,right ?
Hi Terry !
I understand you want to make a passive crossover for a PHL 1360 and a morel et338-104.
First you must make the right box 15L@60Hz. It is very important.
If you can do gated measurement for SPL and impedance , you can succeed in doing a good crossover.
Second the recommended crossover frequency is 3kHz. I suppose LR4, means 24dB slope. In this case, based on my experience it might be a 12dB electrical for the woofer and a 18dB electrical for the tweeter.
If it is a bookshelf +3dB baffle step compensation, but a standmount +6dB baffle step compensation.
I usually see these values, for a standmount woofer (8ohms) L~2/2.2mH (less baffle step, lower value ~1mH) C~6.8-15uF Tweeter (8ohms) C1~4.7uF L~0.22mH C2~ 10-15uF and a LPAD after or more simple a resistance before the tweeter crossover.
Hope this helps.
I understand you want to make a passive crossover for a PHL 1360 and a morel et338-104.
First you must make the right box 15L@60Hz. It is very important.
If you can do gated measurement for SPL and impedance , you can succeed in doing a good crossover.
Second the recommended crossover frequency is 3kHz. I suppose LR4, means 24dB slope. In this case, based on my experience it might be a 12dB electrical for the woofer and a 18dB electrical for the tweeter.
If it is a bookshelf +3dB baffle step compensation, but a standmount +6dB baffle step compensation.
I usually see these values, for a standmount woofer (8ohms) L~2/2.2mH (less baffle step, lower value ~1mH) C~6.8-15uF Tweeter (8ohms) C1~4.7uF L~0.22mH C2~ 10-15uF and a LPAD after or more simple a resistance before the tweeter crossover.
Hope this helps.
Sorry Terry but I have taken a job at Falls Creek for the ski season now that I am recovered from the surgery, I need to put some money back into the household.
Picowall I have nothing in the way of expertise to offer Terry, just ballpark guesses, these PHL need a little more than a close approximation I think
Picowall I have nothing in the way of expertise to offer Terry, just ballpark guesses, these PHL need a little more than a close approximation I think
ok, first off thanks for responding.
Ted, my eldest daughter is now a ski instructor, last year was her first year. Just headed back down last week for the new season, of course she is not in vic, but at smiggins (perisher). She just had to resit a test at Mt Buller, I'd better see how she went!
Thanks for reminding me how to be a good dad! When does the season finish? Around that time ain't it?
Anyway, yet again we'll put it on the backburner and 'make plans for next year' eh??!!
Hahaha, thanks jerome and pico...a bit of national pride coming thru seein as how you both are french??
And so you should be proud, I gotta say I love PHL drivers. I did not want to bore anyone with too much detail, but I see I should expand a little, I may have given you a bum steer.
(moondog, this has gotta stay a secret yeah? It's a surprise for the next gtg, well at least as I am banned from the forum they don't know yet. Ain't we lucky the internet is such a secure place? They'll never find out
)
Here is a link to my speaker build. Don't particularly read it, but you can have a glance at the second page and see the set up. (it is boring, there is one guy on there who writes these bloody long posts...ignore him)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/127653-frankenstein-becomes-cindarella-i-hope.html
That mid driver is different to this one, and IIRC I blew those tweeters up!! At the bloody gtg!! One day we got out of them, then silence for the rest of the weekend.
Anyway, brett (from this forum) has lent me a bunch of gear. I run a deqx unit to control the lot. I have just gotten a second deqx, so I can run subs as well.
One of the things I borrowed off brett was a pair of ten inch mids, some AE model. Just for a look see, I built a smallish box and mounted the tens on top of the cabinets you see in the thread, in effect turned it into a four way.
I cannot swear on the forum, but the improvement was beyond belief. Holy ^%@**#$ing (&%#* !!!!!!
I am now looking at a ten inch PHL, and will need to rebuild the front baffle to incorporate the ten. As I mentioned before, luckily it just unbolts.
So there is the background, it is not a 2 way as such, tho it is a crossover between a mid and tweeter. If I put the passive network in there, those two drivers can be measured and corrected as a single unit by the deqx, so what would normally take two outputs now only takes one.
That measn I acn run the four way using only three outputs from the first deqx unit, and still have the outputs from the second to run distributed subs.
Sorry for the long windedness, but I could see you needed that extra data.
I will be crossing to the 1360 from the ten at around 6,7,800 hz or so, and running it up to around 2800 and cross to the tweeter. (which was why I wondered about the worth of the waterfall)
In any case, I can get a waterfall if needed, but it will be in room. Can always close mic it I guess.
So, I am basically an active speaker guy, but for this one project/experiment I don't particularly want to become an analog crossover expert, if you follow.
A good enough 'on paper' design from a good program or whatever should be pretty close. Any phase anomalies or frequency response aberrations will be corrected by the deqx anyway. I mean I don't want the deqx to have to do a huge job correcting a terrible crossover, but you get what I mean.
Jerome, maybe all of this changes your points? For example, I mucked up my box size estimates and am pretty tight on the volume. The mid chamber at the moment is around 6-8 litres or so, and I have to shoehorn in a chamber for the ten (should get away with around ten litres), all of which then takes away from the volume for the 18s. So they will now be running in a smaller cabinet, but that is offset by me running four subs, ie it does not need to go so low anymore.
But, I would like to keep the mid chamber (and the ten chamber) as small as possible.
mmmm, distributed subs...mmmm plus a four way, grrrrrooahhow pant pant..
I can 'easily' change/build a new baffle...be buggered if I am building new boxes!!!
I should have said all this in the initial post, sorry about that.
EDIT ONE french guy and one italian (?) guy. mixed my flags up, and still not sure if I am right haha
Ted, my eldest daughter is now a ski instructor, last year was her first year. Just headed back down last week for the new season, of course she is not in vic, but at smiggins (perisher). She just had to resit a test at Mt Buller, I'd better see how she went!
Thanks for reminding me how to be a good dad! When does the season finish? Around that time ain't it?
Anyway, yet again we'll put it on the backburner and 'make plans for next year' eh??!!
Hahaha, thanks jerome and pico...a bit of national pride coming thru seein as how you both are french??
And so you should be proud, I gotta say I love PHL drivers. I did not want to bore anyone with too much detail, but I see I should expand a little, I may have given you a bum steer.
(moondog, this has gotta stay a secret yeah? It's a surprise for the next gtg, well at least as I am banned from the forum they don't know yet. Ain't we lucky the internet is such a secure place? They'll never find out
)Here is a link to my speaker build. Don't particularly read it, but you can have a glance at the second page and see the set up. (it is boring, there is one guy on there who writes these bloody long posts...ignore him)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/127653-frankenstein-becomes-cindarella-i-hope.html
That mid driver is different to this one, and IIRC I blew those tweeters up!! At the bloody gtg!! One day we got out of them, then silence for the rest of the weekend.
Anyway, brett (from this forum) has lent me a bunch of gear. I run a deqx unit to control the lot. I have just gotten a second deqx, so I can run subs as well.
One of the things I borrowed off brett was a pair of ten inch mids, some AE model. Just for a look see, I built a smallish box and mounted the tens on top of the cabinets you see in the thread, in effect turned it into a four way.
I cannot swear on the forum, but the improvement was beyond belief. Holy ^%@**#$ing (&%#* !!!!!!
I am now looking at a ten inch PHL, and will need to rebuild the front baffle to incorporate the ten. As I mentioned before, luckily it just unbolts.
So there is the background, it is not a 2 way as such, tho it is a crossover between a mid and tweeter. If I put the passive network in there, those two drivers can be measured and corrected as a single unit by the deqx, so what would normally take two outputs now only takes one.
That measn I acn run the four way using only three outputs from the first deqx unit, and still have the outputs from the second to run distributed subs.
Sorry for the long windedness, but I could see you needed that extra data.
I will be crossing to the 1360 from the ten at around 6,7,800 hz or so, and running it up to around 2800 and cross to the tweeter. (which was why I wondered about the worth of the waterfall)
In any case, I can get a waterfall if needed, but it will be in room. Can always close mic it I guess.
So, I am basically an active speaker guy, but for this one project/experiment I don't particularly want to become an analog crossover expert, if you follow.
A good enough 'on paper' design from a good program or whatever should be pretty close. Any phase anomalies or frequency response aberrations will be corrected by the deqx anyway. I mean I don't want the deqx to have to do a huge job correcting a terrible crossover, but you get what I mean.
Jerome, maybe all of this changes your points? For example, I mucked up my box size estimates and am pretty tight on the volume. The mid chamber at the moment is around 6-8 litres or so, and I have to shoehorn in a chamber for the ten (should get away with around ten litres), all of which then takes away from the volume for the 18s. So they will now be running in a smaller cabinet, but that is offset by me running four subs, ie it does not need to go so low anymore.
But, I would like to keep the mid chamber (and the ten chamber) as small as possible.
mmmm, distributed subs...mmmm plus a four way, grrrrrooahhow pant pant..
I can 'easily' change/build a new baffle...be buggered if I am building new boxes!!!
I should have said all this in the initial post, sorry about that.
EDIT ONE french guy and one italian (?) guy. mixed my flags up, and still not sure if I am right haha
OK I need to know more, is the driver being used as a bookshelf standalone or is it as a high midrange in a 4 way system?? It does make a difference as a high mid 300-3000 it could work in a sealed box.
So is it the 18 doing bass; the 10 doing mid-bass and the 6 doing mids??
Does this mean active at bass and just one XO output going to the tops ( the mid and tweeter ) ?? Because that is a pretty standard sort of arrangement.
So is it the 18 doing bass; the 10 doing mid-bass and the 6 doing mids??
Does this mean active at bass and just one XO output going to the tops ( the mid and tweeter ) ?? Because that is a pretty standard sort of arrangement.
summer is gonna come , here in Florence ....
I am the French, Pico is Italian
Ok i understand now ! I believed it was a 2 ways. It is a four ways. The PHL is a midrange in this setup. You can keep the box
Nothing to add about the crossover. You can use full baffle step for the PHL if it is a semi active crossover. If it was a full passive device, the crossover would be different. See my suggested values as a starting point, as Moondog55 has wrote, measurement helps to realize a precise crossover. It will be a long process to modelize your loudspeaker if you didn't used to do it.
Have Fun
Ok i understand now ! I believed it was a 2 ways. It is a four ways
. The PHL is a midrange in this setup. You can keep the box Nothing to add about the crossover. You can use full baffle step for the PHL if it is a semi active crossover. If it was a full passive device, the crossover would be different. See my suggested values as a starting point, as Moondog55 has wrote, measurement helps to realize a precise crossover. It will be a long process to modelize your loudspeaker if you didn't used to do it.
Have Fun
hey no worries, thanks. as I said, it sounds great.
so you doing cooking duties? you and celia (I think it was) are more than welcome.
Hi Terry
Whats going on Terry , passive xovers
Have you thought about emailing Pat ,I'm sure he could find out the spec's for you .
Cheers
ahh FFS! the cat is out of the bag. Ok, plan two. Moondog AND malcolm, it is a secret.
boy, whoever told me the net was secure needs a swift kick up the bum!
I did find the specs on the 1360, it is in the link above (orca designs)
I spoke to Pat just yesterday I think it was. We're looking at the 3451 or the 3430, depending on what the crossover experiments tell us. Can cross the 3451 a bit lower, but then again TBH the 'usual' recommended crossover points are not 96 db or so! So I do feel confident that I can cross lower than what would be normal.
Duhh, I could even ask andrew to do this for me. Oh well, it is always good to get a few different opinions.
Ted. Yes, I am 'inserting' a ten inch into the franks. So it will change from a three way to a four way, the mid we are discussing will run from an (estimated) frequency of 5-800 hz, which crosses to the morel at 2800 or so.
So 18-natural bottom rolloff (or slightly eq'd lower) around 50 hz, up to 150-200 hz
the ten 150-200 hz up to 5-800 hz
six and a half (1360) 800 -2800
morel 2800 and up.
The mid (1360) is in a small sealed box, as will be the ten.
The 18 will be active, the ten will be active, the *mid and tweeter* combination will be active, ie four drivers done with three outputs.
It then passes to the other deqx unit, which can run a multitude of subs as I see fit.
Thanks jerome, looks like france are out of the world cup eh? Oh well, so are we I suspect! (does that mean we are as good as france? haha)
I might give andrew an email. but for now should I make a few quick measurements??? simple stuff, mid alone (raw in this small box), tweeter alone and the two together. Is that about right?
Do you want some (in room) w/falls of the mid?? Be best if I do it close mic??
Thanks for the help.
looking forward to meeting you malcolm. ps, you DO know there is a music tax that applies?? (I like what you bring, I rip)
Oh yes ,now I've seen the original Thread , I did read it at the time ,and now you're adding another speaker.
"
did I ever tell you I hate building speakers?? If I didn't, well then I should have ha ha " (cit.)
So true !
Baffle-less is out of the question ,I think . Some real solid gear like big pieces of steel or special carbon fiber would add the touch . Since crossover frequency is relatively low (for a 4 way) ,which is good , a little more than the original tw flange would be good . Marble ,alluminium ,you need some really good and "deaf" materials ,since the vibration of the cabinet would be transmitted to it.
"
did I ever tell you I hate building speakers?? If I didn't, well then I should have ha ha " (cit.)
So true !
Baffle-less is out of the question ,I think . Some real solid gear like big pieces of steel or special carbon fiber would add the touch . Since crossover frequency is relatively low (for a 4 way) ,which is good , a little more than the original tw flange would be good . Marble ,alluminium ,you need some really good and "deaf" materials ,since the vibration of the cabinet would be transmitted to it.
Some constructive remarks
But you could try to balance the octaves ?
18" 20-100Hz ~2.5octaves, bass
10" 100-500Hz ~2.5 octaves, low midrange
5" 500-3000Hz ~2.5octaves, high midrange, low treble
1" 3000-20000Hz ~3octaves, treble
You are right, our football team is rubbish a shame ! Our team have had a lot of problem for several years. I think the Australian team is better
No at least 0.5/1m at tweeter height but a gated measurement (at least 3ms) A software like HOLM Impulse does this.
But you could try to balance the octaves ?
18" 20-100Hz ~2.5octaves, bass
10" 100-500Hz ~2.5 octaves, low midrange
5" 500-3000Hz ~2.5octaves, high midrange, low treble
1" 3000-20000Hz ~3octaves, treble
You are right, our football team is rubbish
a shame ! Our team have had a lot of problem for several years. I think the Australian team is better Yes, two together to calculate the acoustic centre
No at least 0.5/1m at tweeter height but a gated measurement (at least 3ms)
A software like HOLM Impulse does this.thanks jerome
I have thought about balancing the octaves. The 18 (pro driver) in it's box has a natural roll off starting at 70 hz or so. With the deqx I can do any degree of eq'ing, and as the 18 are pretty capable I just let it 'go to town'.
With around 15 db of boost the lowest I can get it to go is 35 hz (in the room) . The driver just shrugs it off and says 'is that all you got??'
So no 20 hz signal for this woofer. So I am thinking ATM maybe a bit of modest boost on that 18 and let's now say 50 hz.
That's fine, will have a few subs to go under that.
Ok, so that is now the 18 50-200 hz, 2 octaves.[there is this 'funny' resonance or sudden overload in the room at times. I have been trying to trace it, we now suspect it is from the floor itself and/or the cavity below it. This room is yet to be renovated, and when I do I can pull up the floorboards and 'jack it up' and secure it, and then fill in between the joists with fibreglass. Let's hope that IS the cause and so that will be the cure. Won't know for a few years tho!!]
So I am thinking of crossing just that little bit lower than 200 to help avoid that sudden overloading, which can be revisited anytime in the future. But yes, let's say 200 hz.
18 50-200 hz, two octaves.
ten, 200 -800 hz, two octaves. This figure of 800 or there abouts popped into my head after reading a recent thread in multi way, something about 'optimal mid crossover point found seventy years ago' (????). Anyway, to do with perception of isd's or iad's or ied's or iud's (haha) and the inability to localise them at that frequency. Also it did fit in well with this balancing octaves idea.
Mid 800-2800....not quite two octaves but it is a sweet point I have found before between the mid an tweeter.
tweeter on up, 3.75 octaves or whatever.
Except for the fixed passive between mid and tweeter, all of these points can be infinitely adjusted as well as the slopes and type any time in the future, so no worries about that.
Our team is better than france?? Ah, so you missed the germany game then.
Will do the measurements today. I use REW, not computer savvy enough to get holm impulse up and running I'm afraid.
I have thought about balancing the octaves. The 18 (pro driver) in it's box has a natural roll off starting at 70 hz or so. With the deqx I can do any degree of eq'ing, and as the 18 are pretty capable I just let it 'go to town'.
With around 15 db of boost the lowest I can get it to go is 35 hz (in the room) . The driver just shrugs it off and says 'is that all you got??'
So no 20 hz signal for this woofer. So I am thinking ATM maybe a bit of modest boost on that 18 and let's now say 50 hz.
That's fine, will have a few subs to go under that.
Ok, so that is now the 18 50-200 hz, 2 octaves.[there is this 'funny' resonance or sudden overload in the room at times. I have been trying to trace it, we now suspect it is from the floor itself and/or the cavity below it. This room is yet to be renovated, and when I do I can pull up the floorboards and 'jack it up' and secure it, and then fill in between the joists with fibreglass. Let's hope that IS the cause and so that will be the cure. Won't know for a few years tho!!]
So I am thinking of crossing just that little bit lower than 200 to help avoid that sudden overloading, which can be revisited anytime in the future. But yes, let's say 200 hz.
18 50-200 hz, two octaves.
ten, 200 -800 hz, two octaves. This figure of 800 or there abouts popped into my head after reading a recent thread in multi way, something about 'optimal mid crossover point found seventy years ago' (????). Anyway, to do with perception of isd's or iad's or ied's or iud's (haha) and the inability to localise them at that frequency. Also it did fit in well with this balancing octaves idea.
Mid 800-2800....not quite two octaves but it is a sweet point I have found before between the mid an tweeter.
tweeter on up, 3.75 octaves or whatever.
Except for the fixed passive between mid and tweeter, all of these points can be infinitely adjusted as well as the slopes and type any time in the future, so no worries about that.
Our team is better than france?? Ah, so you missed the germany game then.
Will do the measurements today. I use REW, not computer savvy enough to get holm impulse up and running I'm afraid.
I don't know about others; but I have never been happy with an 800Hz XO, Given the capability of the PHL I would be tempted to let it run with the majority of the mid frequencies.
mind you Terry this is a subjective personal opinion.
I have a couple of old books here that also mention that 800 XO but they were talking about 2-ways using a mid/treble horn and my impression was it was more about optimizing the efficiency of the 15inch woofers in the old days.
Same books also recommend 500 and 5000 for 3-way speakers.
Even with that old opinion I would go lower with a 6.5 mid, if Fs is 40 Hz than a two octave margin should allow crossing with ease anywhere above 200Hz.
maybe I should do some modelling but I am having software problems with Jeff Bagbys latest program and it will not work with my version of Excell
mind you Terry this is a subjective personal opinion.
I have a couple of old books here that also mention that 800 XO but they were talking about 2-ways using a mid/treble horn and my impression was it was more about optimizing the efficiency of the 15inch woofers in the old days.
Same books also recommend 500 and 5000 for 3-way speakers.
Even with that old opinion I would go lower with a 6.5 mid, if Fs is 40 Hz than a two octave margin should allow crossing with ease anywhere above 200Hz.
maybe I should do some modelling but I am having software problems with Jeff Bagbys latest program and it will not work with my version of Excell
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