This LF-box would have to play up to 650Hz, because that compressiondriver can not go lower.
My thinking was to try 16cm resistive damping docked to the sides of the speaker along side-wall, to reduce that null.
Due to the angle, the effective damping will be longer than 16cm, if you get what I mean.
My thinking was to try 16cm resistive damping docked to the sides of the speaker along side-wall, to reduce that null.
Due to the angle, the effective damping will be longer than 16cm, if you get what I mean.
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IMO you should have a look at Hornresp to simulate it. It can give you a better feel for how the speaker will perform in "PI space". i.e. It can simulate effects of loudspeakers placed in corners versus "free" in the middle of a room.
Have a look on Home Theater Shack forums for the HR tutorials.
J.
Speaking just about low bass (which is what the OP focused on): for my first 55 years of audio enthusiasm, I fully endorsed all the good reasons for using corners (and had a Klipschorn bass for many years). But a few years ago, I discovered how dramatically different subs measure (at my chair) in different locations.
You know very little about the sound until you test low bass equipment in your room. Then you find promising locations, sort out crossover points and slopes, and use EQ to fine-tune.
B.
You know very little about the sound until you test low bass equipment in your room. Then you find promising locations, sort out crossover points and slopes, and use EQ to fine-tune.
B.
The approach I use in my constant directivity cornerhorns is to position the bass bin close enough to the apex of the corner that the side walls are within 1/4λ. This is true for the midhorn too at the low end of its passband. At higher frequencies, the midhorn and tweeter waveguide maintain pattern control in the horizontal, so side wall reflections are not a problem.
Vertical is a different story, as are room modes. The way I approach this in my constant directivity cornerhorns is to blend sound sources, like line arrays do. The midhorn and bass bin are blended up to around 250Hz. This mitigates the floor bounce notch. As a result of the near proximity to side walls and the blending of sound sources to smooth the floor bounce, measurements show the system is from of anomalies from nearest boundaries.
I like to run what I call flanking subs in other systems that suffer self-interference from nearest boundaries: the walls behind and beside the speaker and the floor. Flanking subs mitigate the notches from reflections by blending the helper woofer with the main woofer, each spaced a few feet apart in all three dimensions. Naturally this isn't needed with constant directivity cornerhorns, but I do like to run a couple distributed multisubs to smooth the deepest room modes. I generally place them in opposite corners, which forms a Welti multisub configuration. But with four bass sound sources - two in the cornerhorns and two in the distributed multisubs - you can place the subs pretty much anywhere that's convenient.
More information can be found in the Pi Speakers FAQ.
Vertical is a different story, as are room modes. The way I approach this in my constant directivity cornerhorns is to blend sound sources, like line arrays do. The midhorn and bass bin are blended up to around 250Hz. This mitigates the floor bounce notch. As a result of the near proximity to side walls and the blending of sound sources to smooth the floor bounce, measurements show the system is from of anomalies from nearest boundaries.
I like to run what I call flanking subs in other systems that suffer self-interference from nearest boundaries: the walls behind and beside the speaker and the floor. Flanking subs mitigate the notches from reflections by blending the helper woofer with the main woofer, each spaced a few feet apart in all three dimensions. Naturally this isn't needed with constant directivity cornerhorns, but I do like to run a couple distributed multisubs to smooth the deepest room modes. I generally place them in opposite corners, which forms a Welti multisub configuration. But with four bass sound sources - two in the cornerhorns and two in the distributed multisubs - you can place the subs pretty much anywhere that's convenient.
More information can be found in the Pi Speakers FAQ.
Another, here very good information, perhaps for those already initiated, I have not read yet...
AudioRoundTable.com: Pi Speakers >> FAQ
AudioRoundTable.com: Pi Speakers >> FAQ
I'm sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this one seems really relevant to me, and I'd love to get some feedback.
I presently have some LX521 speakers in a 12'x12'x8' office (unfortunately I built them before we bought the house where I've had my audio room compressed to this size), and spacing them three feet from the front wall and 2.5 feet from the side walls really takes up a lot of valuable floor space, and I've had to go to some lengths to get decent sound out of the system, including a large broadband absorber behind the chair.
Would corner horns be an option in this shape of room? On the one hand it seems like I could save space, but on the other hand it seems like I would have to sit with the corners at a substantially wider angle than the traditional 60 degree equilateral, and I'd still have the same problem of reflections from the rear wall. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated, thanks!
I presently have some LX521 speakers in a 12'x12'x8' office (unfortunately I built them before we bought the house where I've had my audio room compressed to this size), and spacing them three feet from the front wall and 2.5 feet from the side walls really takes up a lot of valuable floor space, and I've had to go to some lengths to get decent sound out of the system, including a large broadband absorber behind the chair.
Would corner horns be an option in this shape of room? On the one hand it seems like I could save space, but on the other hand it seems like I would have to sit with the corners at a substantially wider angle than the traditional 60 degree equilateral, and I'd still have the same problem of reflections from the rear wall. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated, thanks!
Really hard to guess what you are asking.
1. Can I use my dipoles?
2. Can I put speakers in corner?
3. Would it be amusing to build refrigerator-sized corner horns?
4. Can I depart from 60 degrees?
The nice thing about modern systems is that they use pint-sized mid-ranges (many high quality speakers out there and which are easy to situate) and large subs (which are easy to situate) and, certainly, DSP and bi-amping.
B.
If space is at a premium and corners are available, a Murphy Corner Line Array would be a natural, especially if you can put them in an 8' wide end.
My corner horns were 15' apart and I listened at about 11' from the front wall. That wasn't 60 degrees and it wasn't a problem.
Not surprised that you needed bass absorption. Even with the corner horns or line arrays you will have longitudinal modes (and others) that need absorption. The corner horns simply minimize the boundary interference.
My corner horns were 15' apart and I listened at about 11' from the front wall. That wasn't 60 degrees and it wasn't a problem.
Not surprised that you needed bass absorption. Even with the corner horns or line arrays you will have longitudinal modes (and others) that need absorption. The corner horns simply minimize the boundary interference.
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I will try to address these
It appears that I cannot. I’ve been able to get reasonable results, but they really can’t get any closer to the walls without hurting the sound significantly, and they dominate the room as-is.
This is really what I’m looking for, folks who have had results in small rooms with this arrangement. I haven’t heard a setup like this before, so I can’t compare it to anything. It seems like it will reduce some of the speaker-boundary problems that I have, but probably won’t change the boundary interaction problems due to the listening position’s proximity to the rear wall.
I don’t think that these are really on the table. I have an eight channel 180 watt Hypex amp and MiniDSP 4x10hd at my disposal, so I don’t need high efficiency.
I just made a drawing to check the geometry, and it turns out that the listening position will only change this to about 65 degrees, so it’s not as bad as I thought. It seems like it could work out. Thank you for helping me think this through.
It appears that I cannot. I’ve been able to get reasonable results, but they really can’t get any closer to the walls without hurting the sound significantly, and they dominate the room as-is.
This is really what I’m looking for, folks who have had results in small rooms with this arrangement. I haven’t heard a setup like this before, so I can’t compare it to anything. It seems like it will reduce some of the speaker-boundary problems that I have, but probably won’t change the boundary interaction problems due to the listening position’s proximity to the rear wall.
I don’t think that these are really on the table. I have an eight channel 180 watt Hypex amp and MiniDSP 4x10hd at my disposal, so I don’t need high efficiency.
I just made a drawing to check the geometry, and it turns out that the listening position will only change this to about 65 degrees, so it’s not as bad as I thought. It seems like it could work out. Thank you for helping me think this through.
Corner loaded [built in] systems are my preference/avocation and IME, square or any extremely lively rooms are best done on the diagonal, so subs in two corners + at least one up a wall at an odd harmonic to help with floor/ceiling eigenmodes and mains at an offset odd harmonic along the walls, i.e. not symmetrical, but skewed relative to the room cube in a floor plan.
Locate the listening position [LP] at some odd harmonic at a room or golden ratio triangle and with the subs off, toe in/out, tilt the mains as required, add any spot damping to get the best overall response, then fade in/EQ the subs for best overall blend.
If no way to do this due to furniture doorway, window locations/whatever, then second best overall is to install up at the wall/corner/ceiling or at least somewhat overhead [> 12 deg] and toe'd in as required to randomize reflections as much as practical, though of course in any case need to keep the space reflection free as practical between the sound wall and LP.
In short, anything you can do to keep first reflections to behind the LP or at least massively randomized for rapid decay, the better.
GM
Locate the listening position [LP] at some odd harmonic at a room or golden ratio triangle and with the subs off, toe in/out, tilt the mains as required, add any spot damping to get the best overall response, then fade in/EQ the subs for best overall blend.
If no way to do this due to furniture doorway, window locations/whatever, then second best overall is to install up at the wall/corner/ceiling or at least somewhat overhead [> 12 deg] and toe'd in as required to randomize reflections as much as practical, though of course in any case need to keep the space reflection free as practical between the sound wall and LP.
In short, anything you can do to keep first reflections to behind the LP or at least massively randomized for rapid decay, the better.
GM
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