gainphile said:
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure it meets total WAF, but she's happy to concede that it's better than a huge OB or some of the other ideas I've been likely to endorse (but won't mention for the sake of embarassment).
Yeah, my biggest challenge is that I don't have loads of space for separate amps and am still searching for a compromise between something geared for music (especially female vocals) which comprises 80% of the system's time, and HT (significantly less important but interesting to me nonetheless).
The room itself is large since it's a loft, heh, so I'm fortunate there (in some ways). I've already got a project underway for an ottoman-based subwoofer, but the biggest issue there is that I'll be feeding it with both signal and power which means 2 separate cables (or sets of cables) which begins to reduce it's WAF.
I'm competent with a solder iron and can read and build schematics, at least in simple fashion. I even have a breadboard lying around here somewhere, but I guess it's intimidating the first time around.Amps are easy, if you have the experience to troubleshoot hum, buzz etc. then build gainclones. Otherwise go to second-hand shop and grab $50 old amps. My amps for pluto is about 20yrs old a JC-Penney one bought for $60 at that time. You can't have "audiophile" mindset though (like signal purity, PRAT, etc.) but an 'engineer' ear rather, he..he..
Btw. both the Peerless and Seas are too expensive to import here so I just use some 5.5" lying around and it's fine. Cabinet size for sealed enclosure is not too critical, maybe just a bit different on Q. There is no substitute for the tweeters however.
Going back the topic of small OB, try it anyway and let us know how it goes
Well, the biggest reason is that I have access to some really expensive manufacturing equipment -- waterjet and laser cutting machines, scores of aluminum and glass stock of practically every size. I've even got plating equipment, spray booths, and about any kind of welding instrumentation I please at my disposal. The polished aluminum Plutos would be a cakewalk to reproduce... possibly even to produce in larger quantities once the initial CNC template is done (looks quite simple).
I'm actually wanting to build my OB out of aluminum and rubber, where the drivers are mounted to a 3/8" piece of aluminum with a 1/8" sheet of rubber on its outside front. The sides were to extend rearwards at about 15*, with a front aluminum cover of approximately 1/8" with larger cut-outs to make the driver appear flush; it would be attached to the rear plate to sandwich the rubber between. The best way to do this would probably be to use three pieces, but that wouldn't be hard to retrofit if it became obvious that resonance was an issue. Aesthetically, I'd go with a vertical brush-stroke and some kind of arched arm that mounts them to a heavy base. I'm pretty sure I can isolate a lot of the resonance that would be typical of aluminum in this fashion, but very unsure that I would like the size of the baffle that is required to achieve good results, especially if larger drivers are required. That would also require a significantly larger footprint. Anyway, those are some thoughts rambling through my mind. I've got all the parts to do it, just would need to make a driver and crossover selection and do some testing. If I could get anywhere close to 100 Hz using smallish drivers (6 or 6.5") with a highish Qts I would be inclined to really give in and see what comes of it. The problem of crossing above 100Hz is that I'll have to be far more conscious of my subwoofer placement and not sure at all that I'll like the results when playing music as opposed to HT. For HT only use, I think I could probably pull it off, even if I had to cross at 150Hz and brutalize the bottom end, perhaps with a sealed sub of some sort. Anyway, just my $0.02 this evening... more thoughts to come, I'm sure.
p0lar - Wow, I wish I had access to the same fabrication facilities!
I think you're right to be worried about the aluminium resonating. However if you decouple it from the woofer it might not be a big problem.
I took a quick look at all the prosound 6" drivers on the PartsExpress site and even the one with the highest Qts (the Pyle PPA6, Qts = 0.89) rolls off too high for you (above 300 Hz) -- you're going to have to go much larger!. (I didn't find a non-prosound driver with that high a Qts).
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With the cloning the Pluto I think that the hard part is the correctly setting up the response-shaping and notch filters, rather than building the enclosures. I don't share gainphile's optimisim that passive filters and using your bass control would be relatively easy to work out. The woofer, whether its the Seas that Linkwitz now uses or the older Peerless, will have a rising response in that configuration. You could use a BSC-type filter to fix this or, as gainphile suggests, just crank up the bass. Looking at the driver response curve Linkwitz presents here adding an appropriate BSC filter will probably leave you with a speaker that's much less sensitive.
Cranking up the bass will not be an effective way to flatten the woofers' response - you'd have to count on the bass control response being the inverse of the woofer's rising response (very unlikely!). A better approach would be using an EQ such as a Behringer DEQ2496 Ultracurve Pro Digital EQ/RTA ($300 US) which will let you measure and fix the bass response and add a notch filter(s).
You could also go fully active to clone it. You'd have to purchase something like a Behringer DCX2496 Crossover at $270 US and use an equalizer to flatten the response. (This assumes you've got an appropriate preamp, at least 4 channels of amplification, and associated cables!). Its relatively easy to see that outright buying the assembled amp/active crossover from Linkwitz at $395 US per side is a good deal if you don't already have the electronics in hand. I suspect its the cost of cloning an active Pluto is why its not commonly done.
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I was interested in hearing that gainpile thought the Pluto needed a large room. Linkwitz commented that the Pluto "should be optimal for people with small spaces or low budgets and who want accurate sound reproduction. Anyone else have listening experience with a Pluto in a small room?
I think you're right to be worried about the aluminium resonating. However if you decouple it from the woofer it might not be a big problem.
I took a quick look at all the prosound 6" drivers on the PartsExpress site and even the one with the highest Qts (the Pyle PPA6, Qts = 0.89) rolls off too high for you (above 300 Hz) -- you're going to have to go much larger!. (I didn't find a non-prosound driver with that high a Qts).
---
With the cloning the Pluto I think that the hard part is the correctly setting up the response-shaping and notch filters, rather than building the enclosures. I don't share gainphile's optimisim that passive filters and using your bass control would be relatively easy to work out. The woofer, whether its the Seas that Linkwitz now uses or the older Peerless, will have a rising response in that configuration. You could use a BSC-type filter to fix this or, as gainphile suggests, just crank up the bass. Looking at the driver response curve Linkwitz presents here adding an appropriate BSC filter will probably leave you with a speaker that's much less sensitive.
Cranking up the bass will not be an effective way to flatten the woofers' response - you'd have to count on the bass control response being the inverse of the woofer's rising response (very unlikely!). A better approach would be using an EQ such as a Behringer DEQ2496 Ultracurve Pro Digital EQ/RTA ($300 US) which will let you measure and fix the bass response and add a notch filter(s).
You could also go fully active to clone it. You'd have to purchase something like a Behringer DCX2496 Crossover at $270 US and use an equalizer to flatten the response. (This assumes you've got an appropriate preamp, at least 4 channels of amplification, and associated cables!). Its relatively easy to see that outright buying the assembled amp/active crossover from Linkwitz at $395 US per side is a good deal if you don't already have the electronics in hand. I suspect its the cost of cloning an active Pluto is why its not commonly done.
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I was interested in hearing that gainpile thought the Pluto needed a large room. Linkwitz commented that the Pluto "should be optimal for people with small spaces or low budgets and who want accurate sound reproduction. Anyone else have listening experience with a Pluto in a small room?
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