Hello.
For long, I have in mind, building a DAC, and now I think it's time.
The main reason, I would build it, is that I want to connect my Envy24HT Revolution 7.1 Sound Card, with S/PDIF out (Coaxial) to it for improving sound.
I would like to tell, that I own a SONY X55ES Cd-player too (Don't know if I can use a DAC with it) ?
I am completly new into DAC's, so I would like some guideline's.
Doe's some know an easy starter-DAC ?, a cheap one maybe ?, or a good website ?
Any help appreceated.
Jesper (lykkedk)
For long, I have in mind, building a DAC, and now I think it's time.
The main reason, I would build it, is that I want to connect my Envy24HT Revolution 7.1 Sound Card, with S/PDIF out (Coaxial) to it for improving sound.
I would like to tell, that I own a SONY X55ES Cd-player too (Don't know if I can use a DAC with it) ?
I am completly new into DAC's, so I would like some guideline's.
Doe's some know an easy starter-DAC ?, a cheap one maybe ?, or a good website ?
Any help appreceated.
Jesper (lykkedk)
I find this layout, simpel enough, for me to make, but I am in little doubt if I read the schematic correct. Please look it throug, and write a comment.
I have put in purple line's. Are they correct ?
where is the G1 / G2 attached ??? , I can't see.
Peter Daniel's original schematic was found here
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=688219&stamp=1122133987
Thanx in advance...
I have put in purple line's. Are they correct ?
where is the G1 / G2 attached ??? , I can't see.
Peter Daniel's original schematic was found here
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=688219&stamp=1122133987
Thanx in advance...
Attachments
Easy DAC
The NOS (Non Over Sampled) TDA1543 DACs are easy to build, easy because they have a low part count. Buy a kit and make it a fun experience.
Peter's DAC and my DAC (built on Peter's design) have had countless hours of tweaking to bring out the best sound.
If you use all the recommended parts then you have something wonderful. If you use your own choices of parts you loose years of experience. The recommended parts are a starting point, tweak from there is my recommendation.
SPDIF is a hard interface to get right. Using different cable, connectors and phase of the moon (not really, but you get my point) all seem to have an effect on sound quality. Since you are using a computer I recommend a USB DAC. The USB interface has none of these problems. I can tell you from experience it is very good.
You were wondering where the two grounds are connected. They are connected at the ground pin of the TDA1543 chip.
Before I added the USB interface to Peter's DAC I was using a Envy24 sound card with SPDIF out into one of Peter's early/prototype DACs.
Please post more questions if you have any.
The NOS (Non Over Sampled) TDA1543 DACs are easy to build, easy because they have a low part count. Buy a kit and make it a fun experience.
Peter's DAC and my DAC (built on Peter's design) have had countless hours of tweaking to bring out the best sound.
If you use all the recommended parts then you have something wonderful. If you use your own choices of parts you loose years of experience. The recommended parts are a starting point, tweak from there is my recommendation.
SPDIF is a hard interface to get right. Using different cable, connectors and phase of the moon (not really, but you get my point) all seem to have an effect on sound quality. Since you are using a computer I recommend a USB DAC. The USB interface has none of these problems. I can tell you from experience it is very good.
You were wondering where the two grounds are connected. They are connected at the ground pin of the TDA1543 chip.
Before I added the USB interface to Peter's DAC I was using a Envy24 sound card with SPDIF out into one of Peter's early/prototype DACs.
Please post more questions if you have any.
I too have been considering a DAC for a separate project - a controller on a computer CD-rom using the Digital SPDIF out.
Got the CD-Rom controller working and have connected the CD-Rom Digital out to a basic DAC (a Yamaha Preamp) and works fine. Locks to the SPDIF with no problems. I have also played with teh analog outs of the CD-Rom, but am more interested in using the Digital outs...
I just want a nice DAC kit to couple to a Stepped attenuator in a separate enclosure for use on one of my many amps (UCD180, Gainclone, Tripath TA2020) and am torn between the Scott Nixon Basic DAC and the DIYParadise DAC kits (Monica II)....I beleive both are TDA1545 chipset...
Anyone have a opinion? They both should do fine for us DAC newbies who do not wish to spend a fortune on a DAC.
Got the CD-Rom controller working and have connected the CD-Rom Digital out to a basic DAC (a Yamaha Preamp) and works fine. Locks to the SPDIF with no problems. I have also played with teh analog outs of the CD-Rom, but am more interested in using the Digital outs...
I just want a nice DAC kit to couple to a Stepped attenuator in a separate enclosure for use on one of my many amps (UCD180, Gainclone, Tripath TA2020) and am torn between the Scott Nixon Basic DAC and the DIYParadise DAC kits (Monica II)....I beleive both are TDA1545 chipset...
Anyone have a opinion? They both should do fine for us DAC newbies who do not wish to spend a fortune on a DAC.
My experience is that the passive I/V stage of the typical TDA1543 needs a buffer. For example the output of the I/V into a 50K pot and then off to a gainclone sounds lifeless. If a lower value pot like 25K or 10K is used the problem is even worse.
Many who are trying to go low cost will take this approach (I was one).
A buffer is required to get the best sound. Not all buffers work or sound good. A simple solution here is a unity gain opamp buffer. Being unity gain makes it easy to try it with and without the buffer to judge the difference it makes. OPA627 is my recommendation. It sounds great and is DIY friendly in this configuration.
I found that I could add a 50K pot between the DAC and OPA627 buffer with little or no negative affect in sound quality. The end result is that the buffer output can be directly(DC) connected to a poweramp or two. The output impedance becomes around 20R instead of the R value of the pot. This also helps with noise on interconnects as you can use 100R input to ground resistors at the amps.
See my schematic here (file to big to post)
http://resources.myaudiosystem.com/PDF/USB1543_with_OPA627.pdf
Many who are trying to go low cost will take this approach (I was one).
A buffer is required to get the best sound. Not all buffers work or sound good. A simple solution here is a unity gain opamp buffer. Being unity gain makes it easy to try it with and without the buffer to judge the difference it makes. OPA627 is my recommendation. It sounds great and is DIY friendly in this configuration.
I found that I could add a 50K pot between the DAC and OPA627 buffer with little or no negative affect in sound quality. The end result is that the buffer output can be directly(DC) connected to a poweramp or two. The output impedance becomes around 20R instead of the R value of the pot. This also helps with noise on interconnects as you can use 100R input to ground resistors at the amps.
See my schematic here (file to big to post)
http://resources.myaudiosystem.com/PDF/USB1543_with_OPA627.pdf
OK... Sound's great to me !
Your'e design, look's clean and neat to me that's really something i like
Just got some quistion's :
1. If I use your'e design, I have to use a USB soundcard right ?
2. I could just leave-out the pre-amp section, and plug it directly into my BoSoZ right ?
3. Maybe you have a parts list or PCB layout ?
4. If not I assume the Voltage-Regulator's must be something aka LM7805 ?
5. Any 'special' part's ?
Your'e design, look's clean and neat to me that's really something i like
Just got some quistion's :
1. If I use your'e design, I have to use a USB soundcard right ?
2. I could just leave-out the pre-amp section, and plug it directly into my BoSoZ right ?
3. Maybe you have a parts list or PCB layout ?
4. If not I assume the Voltage-Regulator's must be something aka LM7805 ?
5. Any 'special' part's ?
I think your question "Is this DAC USB input only?" This DAC has no SPDIF input, USB input only. See audiosector.com for a SPDIF version. The DAC is the soundcard. The computer must have a USB version 1.1 port or better (2.0) to work with the DAC.
Yes. If you have a preamp already you would want to try it. In this case you would only build the DAC half of the board. The board has score lines you can snap the board in half. I have a feeling the OPA627 buffer will be even better then your BoSoZ. I think we would both like to know the answer to that question
Yes. http://www.diyaudiosystem.com/Products/DAC/USB1543/bom/
For the full DAC with Buffer there are 7 voltage regulators. 3 on the DAC side of the board. The TDA1543 runs at 8volts, the USB chip and clock run at 3.3 volts and the opamps (buffer) run at +/- 18 volts.
Yes and no. Yes in that you should use them all as specified to get the best sound. The parts are all available on the Internet. The suppliers are Digikey, Mouser, Partsconnexion, Jaycarr, Hammond (if you use the big transformers). It sounds the best with a pair of 130VA transformers - believe it or not!
Thank you very much, for nice and clear answers!
I think I am misunderstanding things with USB and S/PDIF (sound-cards), I bellive that my soundcard :
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Revolution71-focus.html
are not capable of delivering through USB
Therefore, I would like a S/PDIF input.
I think I am misunderstanding things with USB and S/PDIF (sound-cards), I bellive that my soundcard :
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Revolution71-focus.html
are not capable of delivering through USB
Therefore, I would like a S/PDIF input.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
beginner DAC - useful link?
Have a look on Ebay.
At the moment there's a seller in the US doing a kit form of either a USB or a SPDIF DAC could be a good starting point. Dont know how good they are but they 'look' pretty reasonable from the spec. Item number #9711525188
They arent NONOS like Brent's though (nice work there BTW )
I do have to wonder if it comes with the Nichicon caps & OPA627's though, or if the pictures are of a tweaked version.
BTW I think youre correct about your soundcard, looks like Coax digital output to me. But it wouldnt matter if you used a USB DAC
Hope thats useful
Andy
Have a look on Ebay.
At the moment there's a seller in the US doing a kit form of either a USB or a SPDIF DAC could be a good starting point. Dont know how good they are but they 'look' pretty reasonable from the spec. Item number #9711525188They arent NONOS like Brent's though (nice work there BTW
)I do have to wonder if it comes with the Nichicon caps & OPA627's though, or if the pictures are of a tweaked version.
BTW I think youre correct about your soundcard, looks like Coax digital output to me. But it wouldnt matter if you used a USB DAC
Hope thats useful
Andy
Unless I'm very much mistaken
So far as I understand the USB dac would replace the soundcard
You'd decode audio directly from the PC with a USB DAC. In other Words what you build would do what your soundcard is up to.
BUT can you set up your computer so sound is coming out of BOTH the soundcard and the USB dac? Or do you have to disable the PCI card?!?
SPDIF has the advantage that you can use it on other bits of Kit too - like cd players for instance.
So far as I understand the USB dac would replace the soundcard
You'd decode audio directly from the PC with a USB DAC. In other Words what you build would do what your soundcard is up to.
BUT can you set up your computer so sound is coming out of BOTH the soundcard and the USB dac? Or do you have to disable the PCI card?!?
SPDIF has the advantage that you can use it on other bits of Kit too - like cd players for instance.
DACs that have both SPDIF and USB interfaces usually convert the USB signal/data to SPDIF signal/data. This adds a step that degrades the sound quality and is not needed in a pure USB DAC.
The way I see it SPDIF will be extinct in 5-10 years. Build a DAC that has more of a future then SPDIF.
The way I see it SPDIF will be extinct in 5-10 years. Build a DAC that has more of a future then SPDIF.
lykkedk said:--> BTW I think youre correct about your soundcard, looks like Coax digital output to me. But it wouldnt matter if you used a USB DAC <--
? I don't understand
sorry
To use the USB DAC, you would connect your DIY device to the USB port of your computer (not sound card). You would not use any part of your M-Audio sound card.
Thanx.... I didn't realize until yesterday, that it was possible to 'stream' the sound from a PC directly to the USB-bus, without a soundcard, sorry for my mistaken
My prob. is that I have a CD (sony x55es), with digital (toslink i think) out, I have a soundcard with (coaxial) S/PDIF out.
Ofcause i could just use the USB for playing sound from my PC, into a DAC, but I would also like to try it on my old sony cd... So i guess i have to have both USB, and toslink for forfilling my need's !
Then, if I have to try some cheap DVD/CD player, I must proberly have the S/PDIF interface.
Maybe there is a good solution for this ? Or should i stick with the USB-DAC only ??? And leaveout the toslink+S/PDIF
I really don't know.
The best solution, would be a USB-DAC, and some adapter's for S/PDIF / Toslink, I think...
My prob. is that I have a CD (sony x55es), with digital (toslink i think) out, I have a soundcard with (coaxial) S/PDIF out
.Ofcause i could just use the USB for playing sound from my PC, into a DAC, but I would also like to try it on my old sony cd... So i guess i have to have both USB, and toslink for forfilling my need's !
Then, if I have to try some cheap DVD/CD player, I must proberly have the S/PDIF interface.
Maybe there is a good solution for this ? Or should i stick with the USB-DAC only ??? And leaveout the toslink+S/PDIF
I really don't know.The best solution, would be a USB-DAC, and some adapter's for S/PDIF / Toslink, I think...
If you want to continue to spin CDs then you should have a DAC with a SPDIF interface so you don't have to use a computer.
But many people are coming to high end audio from the other direction. From iPods and other MP3 players. They are used to music being files, for them going back to spinning CDs is like going back in time. Spooky. I would have to say they are right.
Plus once you get a large collection of music then CDs don't make sense anymore. A 400 GByte hard drive holds over 20,000 lossless songs, at least 1000 CDs of music in the palm of your hand. But I imagine only a record company would ever have that much music on tap, right
But many people are coming to high end audio from the other direction. From iPods and other MP3 players. They are used to music being files, for them going back to spinning CDs is like going back in time. Spooky. I would have to say they are right.
Plus once you get a large collection of music then CDs don't make sense anymore. A 400 GByte hard drive holds over 20,000 lossless songs, at least 1000 CDs of music in the palm of your hand. But I imagine only a record company would ever have that much music on tap, right
Member
Joined 2002
Brent Welke said:If you want to continue to spin CDs then you should have a DAC with a SPDIF interface so you don't have to use a computer.
But many people are coming to high end audio from the other direction. From iPods and other MP3 players. They are used to music being files, for them going back to spinning CDs is like going back in time. Spooky. I would have to say they are right.
Plus once you get a large collection of music then CDs don't make sense anymore. A 400 GByte hard drive holds over 20,000 lossless songs, at least 1000 CDs of music in the palm of your hand. But I imagine only a record company would ever have that much music on tap, right
My beef,
Ok brent thats a decent idea *BUT* say you spend all this time organizing them downloading them your so focused into your music then one day you hear this sound CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK.. guess what that sound was.. it was your hard drive's head bashing against the case because it decided to go heads up.. then you just lost ALLL your music..
so id have to say until they come out with large / HUGE compact flash cards then your idea is kinda useless.And a 400 gig hard drive how do you back that up.. OTHER than buying 2 to mirror them..
jleaman said:
My beef,
Ok brent thats a decent idea *BUT* say you spend all this time organizing them downloading them your so focused into your music then one day you hear this sound CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK.. guess what that sound was.. it was your hard drive's head bashing against the case because it decided to go heads up.. then you just lost ALLL your music..
And a 400 gig hard drive how do you back that up.. OTHER than buying 2 to mirror them..
lol, blue ray is just around the corner...half a dozen disks to backup a collection aint too bad...
Gentleman, might I suggest an external 160-200+ GB HD with a USB 2.0 or Firewire interface. You simply back up your MP3/MP4's to that by runnning a copy every so often.
You can also use this external HD for any other critical data.
Then disconnect the external HD until the next time you need to backup your files.
Its simple, fast and reasonably economical.
You can also use this external HD for any other critical data.
Then disconnect the external HD until the next time you need to backup your files.
Its simple, fast and reasonably economical.
MP3's?
Hmm this seems to have deviated from a DAC discussion but still, having lost (too) many a HDD opver the years I'd suggest a recordable disc of some variety too (I like DVD's for travelling)
BUT using MP3's IMHO rather defeats the object of having a good DAC. Thats the point, they store less data than the CD format.
I'm also pretty sure I've seen a DAC schematic that had SPDIF & USB inputs, but the SPDIF went "directly" to the receiver chip. You'd get the best of both world's then. Thats the dddac isnt it?
Getting a bit more complex, you could build the front end of both types and use a 74VHC244 (or just a bunch of And gates) to switch between the two feeds to the Digital filter (or DAC if you must not OS) Maybe that doesnt count as an "easy DAC"...
Andy
Hmm this seems to have deviated from a DAC discussion but still, having lost (too) many a HDD opver the years I'd suggest a recordable disc of some variety too (I like DVD's for travelling)
BUT using MP3's IMHO rather defeats the object of having a good DAC. Thats the point, they store less data than the CD format.
I'm also pretty sure I've seen a DAC schematic that had SPDIF & USB inputs, but the SPDIF went "directly" to the receiver chip. You'd get the best of both world's then. Thats the dddac isnt it?
Getting a bit more complex, you could build the front end of both types and use a 74VHC244 (or just a bunch of And gates) to switch between the two feeds to the Digital filter (or DAC if you must not OS) Maybe that doesnt count as an "easy DAC"...
Andy
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