In humid environments, yes, as it can reduce oxidation. Although assuming a reasonable insulation, it shouldn't be a significant concern in many situations anyway, and if you're running solid core, you've less surface-area to corrode than stranded. I live near the Humber in the UK, fairly damp part of the country, and last year helped my father remove 250ft of surplus wire for his ham radio gear since he was changing his mast setup. Been attached to the top of a wooden fence for the best part of 2 decades, and wasn't especially fancy. Stipped a few sections back -copper as bright as the day it was made.
Uninsulated wire is generally best avoided of course, unless you particularly like the increased potential for shorts etc.
For clarity, the bare XLO will be disconnected from the Aragon and spliced to the 15 feet of new bare cable connected to the remote amp. Then I can listen to the 803s being powered by the Parallel 86.
Sounds like an excellent way of raising inductance significantly, & turning it into an antenna / risking picking up excess RF, but you should probably look at ham radio suppliers or sites. Trueladderline.com appear to sell in 16ga, which is probably the heaviest you're likely to find. Alternatively you could make your own, e.g. https://www.dj0ip.de/open-wire-fed-ant/d-i-y-ladder-line/ where they appear to be using 14ga.
Ladder Line that is fed from a balanced signal, and if it is also loaded differentially is actually pretty good at RF applications . . .
It is not a good antenna. It does not transmit very well, and it does not pick up electromagnetic fields very well.
Closely spaced balanced conductors in free space, have an effective node that has no 'motion' from signal, (the node is in the center between the two conductors), and impedance from the conductors to the imaginary node is 1/4 of the ladder line impedance.
600 Ohm ladder line, "is" 75 Ohms from one conductor to the node, and 75 Ohms from the other conductor to the node.
Essentially, one "moving" conductor is 75 Ohms to free space, and the other "moving" conductor is 75 Ohms to free space.
But that all balances out, because the conductors are moving in opposite directions.
Free Space is 376.73 Ohms, to that many places.
When you work in RF, with transmission lines, antennas, return loss, VSWR, field strengths, etc., you will begin to understand these concepts, including free space.
All of that can also help to understand the ins and outs of loudspeaker cables, not just RF cables.
It is not a good antenna. It does not transmit very well, and it does not pick up electromagnetic fields very well.
Closely spaced balanced conductors in free space, have an effective node that has no 'motion' from signal, (the node is in the center between the two conductors), and impedance from the conductors to the imaginary node is 1/4 of the ladder line impedance.
600 Ohm ladder line, "is" 75 Ohms from one conductor to the node, and 75 Ohms from the other conductor to the node.
Essentially, one "moving" conductor is 75 Ohms to free space, and the other "moving" conductor is 75 Ohms to free space.
But that all balances out, because the conductors are moving in opposite directions.
Free Space is 376.73 Ohms, to that many places.
When you work in RF, with transmission lines, antennas, return loss, VSWR, field strengths, etc., you will begin to understand these concepts, including free space.
All of that can also help to understand the ins and outs of loudspeaker cables, not just RF cables.
Er, I do work with RF. And the above is essentially irrelevant at or near audio frequencies. As far as loudspeaker wire is concerned, and assuming it isn't being used for EQ, loop resistance completely dominates everything else. Inductance and capacitance, for a sane geometry (closely spaced parallel feeder, twisted pair, star-quad) have minimal practical effect, and with the exception of connection losses (usually only HE systems need apply) the rest is off the radar.
And the above is essentially irrelevant at or near audio frequencies. As far as loudspeaker wire is concerned, and assuming it isn't being used for EQ, loop resistance completely dominates everything else. Inductance and capacitance, for a sane geometry (closely spaced parallel feeder, twisted pair, star-quad) have minimal practical effect, and with the exception of connection losses (usually only HE systems need apply) the rest is off the radar.Scottmoose,
I merely was stating that [properly used] Ladder Line does Not act like an Antenna.
Very little radiation, and very little pickup.
Of course, used for an unbalanced audio amplifier output to a loudspeaker, is Not properly used.
That Will radiate, and it Will pick up external radiated fields.
Otherwise, how does a 100mW input low power transmitter, that puts 65mW to the antenna, communicate the Long Way around the world [13,000 miles]. (Efficient antennas is how it is done; not a Ladder Line "antenna") . . . beam antennas which are pointed the long way around the world. ("Electronics World" magazine, 1959).
I merely was stating that [properly used] Ladder Line does Not act like an Antenna.
Very little radiation, and very little pickup.
Of course, used for an unbalanced audio amplifier output to a loudspeaker, is Not properly used.
That Will radiate, and it Will pick up external radiated fields.
Otherwise, how does a 100mW input low power transmitter, that puts 65mW to the antenna, communicate the Long Way around the world [13,000 miles]. (Efficient antennas is how it is done; not a Ladder Line "antenna") . . . beam antennas which are pointed the long way around the world. ("Electronics World" magazine, 1959).
True. But it actually will work very well in audio, with good wire gauge, and short lengths.
1. Where it will not work for audio, is where one of our diyAudio members lives in the state of Main, near to those Megawatt Navy Transmitter(s), that have carrier frequencies in the audio range.
2. And, it may not work for those who use global negative feedback, and a compensation capacitor from the output transformer secondary, all the way back to the input stage cathode . . . which is an AM envelope detector.
Not all parts work in all applications.
If I get some Ladder Line, I am sure it will work very on my system. It will be a great conversation starter for those who come to listen to my stereo.
Please, someone find me the old style 600 Ohm ladder line with the white insulators; not those black plastic ones with carbon to give them color.
Just like the 600 Ohm line and white plastic insulators that I worked with on the roof of the US Consulate in Hong Kong, over 50 Years ago.
1. Where it will not work for audio, is where one of our diyAudio members lives in the state of Main, near to those Megawatt Navy Transmitter(s), that have carrier frequencies in the audio range.
2. And, it may not work for those who use global negative feedback, and a compensation capacitor from the output transformer secondary, all the way back to the input stage cathode . . . which is an AM envelope detector.
Not all parts work in all applications.
If I get some Ladder Line, I am sure it will work very on my system. It will be a great conversation starter for those who come to listen to my stereo.
Please, someone find me the old style 600 Ohm ladder line with the white insulators; not those black plastic ones with carbon to give them color.
Just like the 600 Ohm line and white plastic insulators that I worked with on the roof of the US Consulate in Hong Kong, over 50 Years ago.
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How are you defining 'work very well in audio', given that across the audio band it's technically inferior in electrical characteristics to a simple closely spaced parallel feeder or twisted pair of the same gauge & construction materials? If you want the raised inductance for minor EQ purposes (since spacing the leads apart loses the benefits of mutual inductance to lower the overall cable inductance) or you have a current-source / near current source amplifier fair enough, obviously, but in the majority of applications it's still BW limiting, while also having the increased potential for RFI. A few years ago a friend asked me to measure a set of spaced leads; I can't remember what they were, but one thing they were certainly very good at was picking up the local taxi cabs. YMMV as always though & if it suits your particular system requirements, that's what counts.
YMMV as always though & if it suits your particular system requirements, that's what counts.
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Two things I no longer have access to:
A $50,000 Rohde & Schwarz Vector Network Analyzer (10Hz to 4 GHz), and a $10,000 Precision Cal Kit.
I used to make measurements of interstage transformers, output transformers, a DSL transformer, complete tube amplifiers, zip cord, boutique speaker cord, several 2-way loudspeakers, capacitors; as well as a tube amplifier driving a loudspeaker.
If I did have access to one now, I would be sure and get a couple of 10 foot lengths of different manufacturers 600 Ohm ladder line.
If I only knew then what I would like to try now.
Lets use 25nH/inch inductance, and a 10 foot ladder line, 20 feet down and back. 12 x 10 x 2 x 25nH = 6,000 nH
6uH.
2 x pi x 20,000 x 6uH = 0.753 Ohms of inductive reactance. That is -1dB for an 8 Ohm load.
That is based on 25nH per inch, I have also heard of the inductance as 10nH per inch (for less high frequency loss..
Someone, please get me the factor for inductance per inch of 14 gauge wire.
Then I can get out my old Post Versalog, or my HP Calculator.
IRMC (I rest my case).
A $50,000 Rohde & Schwarz Vector Network Analyzer (10Hz to 4 GHz), and a $10,000 Precision Cal Kit.
I used to make measurements of interstage transformers, output transformers, a DSL transformer, complete tube amplifiers, zip cord, boutique speaker cord, several 2-way loudspeakers, capacitors; as well as a tube amplifier driving a loudspeaker.
If I did have access to one now, I would be sure and get a couple of 10 foot lengths of different manufacturers 600 Ohm ladder line.
If I only knew then what I would like to try now.
Lets use 25nH/inch inductance, and a 10 foot ladder line, 20 feet down and back. 12 x 10 x 2 x 25nH = 6,000 nH
6uH.
2 x pi x 20,000 x 6uH = 0.753 Ohms of inductive reactance. That is -1dB for an 8 Ohm load.
That is based on 25nH per inch, I have also heard of the inductance as 10nH per inch (for less high frequency loss..
Someone, please get me the factor for inductance per inch of 14 gauge wire.
Then I can get out my old Post Versalog, or my HP Calculator.
IRMC (I rest my case).
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What, 14ga solid core or fine-stranded wire? You can calculate that yourself easily enough, but self-inductance is 17.4nH/in at low-mid frequencies, with progressive skin effect gradually negating internal inductance & self-inductance becoming equal to external inductance, thus 0.525ohms by your metric. However, it's a misleading metric as you seem to only be calculating self inductance & ignoring mutual / external inductance which is ultimately what counts. One of the better summaries, peer reviewed by John Escallier of Brookhaven National Laboratory: https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/calculating-cable-inductance-of-zip-cord
Personal preference -I don't like splices in leads, period. Assuming a reasonable gauge & geometry, connections have caused more problems than wire ever has, and you do get losses (although for the latter, realistically speaking only HE systems really need apply). Accepting they're sometimes a necessary evil, providing you get a good compression contact & the materials are similar, worse fates could befall mankind.