I'm committed to building a stealth sub posing as an endtable with books and a lamp on top... maybe a potted fern. False hinges and pull handle on the front "door". No visible speaker or grille. This means bottom firing or rear firing.
Plugging in the TS numbers at the PE calculation page for down-firing candidates my Viva 12in neo rates 6.7 percent. Barely above the 5 percent cutoff for comfort. That's due to it's 9mm xmax. How about rear firing? My take on many of the the threads here is that corner or wall loading is less than optimal for most accurate bass for a 100 percent music sub.
What about the above? A six inch wide slot in the front of the sub cabinet is formed by a false front. The rear compartment is sealed. Still floor coupled/loaded but to a much lesser extent. Those feet are already six inches tall, and the cone center is another eight to ten inches above those.
Any thoughts?
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Might not have been clear enough on this. I'd rather be 100 percent "no worries" about horizontally mounting this driver since PE suggests that it's a little outside of the recommended zone for such orientation based on their formula, particularly since it's got only 9mm xmax. There's not a lot of room for droop there.
Still tempted to return this driver for the Peerless 12. Peerless 830500 12" XLS Subwoofer. This might be the deciding factor in the end.
Still tempted to return this driver for the Peerless 12. Peerless 830500 12" XLS Subwoofer. This might be the deciding factor in the end.
Hmmm, that Peerless measures approx the same percentage of sag/xmax as the Vifa.
Guess I'll do the hidden build with this one and call it good. Not much extra carpentry in there really just to put one extra baffle in place and just about the best physical protection for the woofer I might manage.
Guess I'll do the hidden build with this one and call it good. Not much extra carpentry in there really just to put one extra baffle in place and just about the best physical protection for the woofer I might manage.
Thank you. That's exactly the kind of advice i was hoping for.
The Sd is 506.7 sq cm. I'll calculate that aperture within a margin over that for comfort and see how much smaller it makes it. That should help me reduce the depth of this sub as well since it started out as a very deep 21 inch file cabinet.
Found the cabinet at my favorite thrift, St. Vincent DePaul yesterday.
Ten dollars.
It's solid oak. Not one stitch of veneer (edges of all panels are visible). Office file of some sort. Antique, but not of any collectible value beyond what I want to use it for. Nice thing about this really old oak, especially if it's been well preserved over the years by coats of paint and varnish, is that the grain is gorgeous beyond most off the shelf stuff at the big box stores. Not easy to see in this shot, but it amazingly beautiful...
All that needs done is to disassemble, sand off the finish with a vac connected orbital sander, reduce the overall height by four inches, reassemble, slap on a coat of urethane, and this is what it looks like drawn to exact scale along with my present speakers..
It's 3/4 inch solid oak all around. What I'll probably do is build a sub out of 1/2 inch MDF to exact outer dimensions to fit within this cabinet's inner dimensions and glue it within. That solves my sealing, mass, and joint strength issues. Also plan to keep the front hinges and keyhole visible, and put some books and a lamp on top to disguise it better... more invisible bass!
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"well regarded in its day" ? Damning faint praise
? Using a modern, somewhat state of the art, driver such as the 2011 Vifa, I'd like to implement it to it's fullest advantage. If I'm gonna diy I'd I might as well bring things a little 'up to date'.
I am, it seems, in a minority of types who actually prefer to have my sound reproduction as invisible as possible. My equipment is always behind a closed cabinet door. I'd love to actually have invisible speakers! My mains have always been as unobtrusively non-attention getting as possible. I've even flirted with the idea once of constructing a false wall of sheer fabric, of a color to match the other wall's paint, behind which are the speaker components. But it'd be an unreasonable use of floor space for any average sized home,
There was a quote from a review of that Muse sub that's worth repeating.
Frankly, I've never met a sub I didn't like.... within reason. I'm excluding the plastic box that comes with the set of desktop computer extensions. But most competent subs will 'fill' that bottom that the six inch, or even an eight inch, mains just needn't be tasked with. Despite the fact of its greater energy, I'd describe the job of a sub in most musical applications as "delicate". If I had a TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18" DVC Subwoofer in a box with 2000 watts under the hood, I'm pretty sure that I'd be dialing that baby back to zero and then trimming upward to the point where I just, I mean just, begin to perceive it rounding out and supporting my mains at comfortable listening levels. It would do a really sweet job. For for my tastes and needs, I can get 98 percent of what I'd demand of that driver/amp at about 1/10 the price.
I used to follow the proceedings over at zaphaudio pretty closely. I'm very much in accord with his no nonsense, let's-raise-the-art-of-affordable-two-channel-stereo-diy approach. But he often seemed to have a slightly uncomfortable accomodation for subs. He'd insert a recommendation for their use toward the end of the build instructions for some of his smaller offerings, but a few times made it clear that he generally preferred their absence.
I've been kind of 'hooked' on subwoofers since I worked at an audio store way back in high school in the 70s. Something almost magical about how it lifts and supports what is issuing from the mains. There's a point at which you just barely dial them in, which may not even correspond to any theoretically perfect plot/curve/rise/flatness/level-matching, where the mains just seem to breathe life. That's the magic point for me.
...and the elephant? I looked up the Muse model 18. Ported, dual downfiring 10 inch. What similarities are you suggesting?
"well regarded in its day" ? Damning faint praise
? Using a modern, somewhat state of the art, driver such as the 2011 Vifa, I'd like to implement it to it's fullest advantage. If I'm gonna diy I'd I might as well bring things a little 'up to date'. I am, it seems, in a minority of types who actually prefer to have my sound reproduction as invisible as possible. My equipment is always behind a closed cabinet door. I'd love to actually have invisible speakers! My mains have always been as unobtrusively non-attention getting as possible. I've even flirted with the idea once of constructing a false wall of sheer fabric, of a color to match the other wall's paint, behind which are the speaker components. But it'd be an unreasonable use of floor space for any average sized home,
There was a quote from a review of that Muse sub that's worth repeating.
There was a post in another thread here recently that suggested that there's little here at diyaudio for "real" subwoofer enthusiasts since the crowd here seems overwhelmingly music vs home theater oriented. So there's that little to share on the subject with 100 percent pure music types?
Frankly, I've never met a sub I didn't like.... within reason. I'm excluding the plastic box that comes with the set of desktop computer extensions. But most competent subs will 'fill' that bottom that the six inch, or even an eight inch, mains just needn't be tasked with. Despite the fact of its greater energy, I'd describe the job of a sub in most musical applications as "delicate". If I had a TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18" DVC Subwoofer in a box with 2000 watts under the hood, I'm pretty sure that I'd be dialing that baby back to zero and then trimming upward to the point where I just, I mean just, begin to perceive it rounding out and supporting my mains at comfortable listening levels. It would do a really sweet job. For for my tastes and needs, I can get 98 percent of what I'd demand of that driver/amp at about 1/10 the price.
I used to follow the proceedings over at zaphaudio pretty closely. I'm very much in accord with his no nonsense, let's-raise-the-art-of-affordable-two-channel-stereo-diy approach. But he often seemed to have a slightly uncomfortable accomodation for subs. He'd insert a recommendation for their use toward the end of the build instructions for some of his smaller offerings, but a few times made it clear that he generally preferred their absence.
I've been kind of 'hooked' on subwoofers since I worked at an audio store way back in high school in the 70s. Something almost magical about how it lifts and supports
what is issuing from the mains. There's a point at which you just barely dial them in, which may not even correspond to any theoretically perfect plot/curve/rise/flatness/level-matching, where the mains just seem to breathe life. That's the magic point for me.
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I find that any sub that adds an element of "boom" to the music is ill designed junk that has a significant peak in the response curve. A lot of the small cab stuff with the port sound boomy. The little computer speaker subs are the worst offenders followed by the department store subs with the small ported cabs. A lot of people seem to like this. I guess it just shows how subjective audio can be.
In my DIY setup, I can't point out where the bass is coming from even though I like to turn the bass up a bit.
In my DIY setup, I can't point out where the bass is coming from even though I like to turn the bass up a bit.
It's solid oak.
Depending on where in the world it was made and when, that might be Ash rather than Oak. Cheers if it is, great find.
Oops, quite right. In the first paragraph an "acoustic slot" was mentioned as well as a description of the sub being downfiring. I put the two together and assumed that the slot was a port and that the drivers were mounted downward.
Cal, do you think it's worth my while to return this driver in exchange for the
Peerless XLS 12 inch? Think it would be worth the extra 40 dollars for the type of sub duty I've described? Vifa calls this driver, in various places, a "subwoofer", but it does seem to occupy a space between a conventional 12inch woofer and most "subwoofers".
Yes, the elephant too.
pure music types... 'cough' BS 'cough',
some of us are mastering engineers for movie production. FOH squeeks, roadies, system designers, and Cal. what more could a person want?
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