Thanks Guys (william,killjoy)
I wished I could have gotten back to ya sooner. I am working out a deal with a friend who has two more 9515's because he only put two in his car. NICE! May be just enough for the house.
I took the suggestions and I am working on the length and really appreciate your post Killjoy. I was reading that William has modelled this speaker earlier in this thread but never really posted anything visual, but he did type a bit of his thoughts (parameters) and it is where I started.
I really appreciate your responses. I will be refolding the box after I get it together and hope to start building. Two 9515's down working on 2 more
dee
BTW, Thanks for the spreadsheet info I missed it in looking over the thread.
I wished I could have gotten back to ya sooner. I am working out a deal with a friend who has two more 9515's because he only put two in his car. NICE! May be just enough for the house.
I took the suggestions and I am working on the length and really appreciate your post Killjoy. I was reading that William has modelled this speaker earlier in this thread but never really posted anything visual, but he did type a bit of his thoughts (parameters) and it is where I started.
I really appreciate your responses. I will be refolding the box after I get it together and hope to start building. Two 9515's down working on 2 more
dee
BTW, Thanks for the spreadsheet info I missed it in looking over the thread.
deerndlph said:Thanks Guys (william,killjoy)
I wished I could have gotten back to ya sooner. I am working out a deal with a friend who has two more 9515's because he only put two in his car. NICE! May be just enough for the house.
I took the suggestions and I am working on the length and really appreciate your post Killjoy. I was reading that William has modelled this speaker earlier in this thread but never really posted anything visual, but he did type a bit of his thoughts (parameters) and it is where I started.
I really appreciate your responses. I will be refolding the box after I get it together and hope to start building. Two 9515's down working on 2 more
dee
BTW, Thanks for the spreadsheet info I missed it in looking over the thread.
Assuming you go with a design similar to the one Killjoy posted (nice flat response!) don't forget that you'll need a very fast rolloff crossover with a low cutoff to remove the effect of the sharp first resonant peak at below 80Hz -- or a better option would probably be to use a Behringer DCX2496, you can then equalise out the peaks as well as doing the crossover.
Ian
The Focalhorn
I thought initially to measure and plot the free-air frequency response, before posting.
Well, no. Im too excited !!
After some physics-bending and modelling, I decided to put my beloved focal vx33 bass into a 210cm (7'), 20Hz coffin...
I managed to spend the entire Saturday together with a "Schreiner" (cabinet-maker/carpenter etc)... we (well, he did, mostly) put the horn together before lunch. I helped him with some staining etc, then at about 5pm we packed up, weighed the box (79.7kg / ~175lbs) and too off for my place...
3rd floor sports a nice view of baden(switzerland), but is non-deal for moving monster like this into!! Anyway, after conquering the stairs and standing the beast, I connected a UCD400 and started feeding in some tones...
100Hz. moderately loud.
80.. "
60.. "
40.. ok, bring on the upright bass...
30.. uhmm, still "moderately loud"...
25... wow, uh, still... ?! will this really do 20?!
20... yes!!! still "moderately loud".... ehehehehhh
16... flapflap...
flapflap turned out to be the driver's non-airtight mounting. will fix that tonight.
scary bass!!
I believe that I've never, in a home setting, heard such authoritative sub-bass before - Its sick!! And so effortless! The TH is a great step, I believe, to achievable "proper" bass reproduction below 30Hz..
Thanks everyone (again) for the great work!
as has been posted often, very little cone-movement at high output, very high attainable output level, etc etc... no negatives points at all yet! (well, size) ... great stuff!!
The old 13"er:
finally found its 20Hz home
I thought initially to measure and plot the free-air frequency response, before posting.
Well, no. Im too excited !!
After some physics-bending and modelling, I decided to put my beloved focal vx33 bass into a 210cm (7'), 20Hz coffin...
I managed to spend the entire Saturday together with a "Schreiner" (cabinet-maker/carpenter etc)... we (well, he did, mostly) put the horn together before lunch. I helped him with some staining etc, then at about 5pm we packed up, weighed the box (79.7kg / ~175lbs) and too off for my place...
3rd floor sports a nice view of baden(switzerland), but is non-deal for moving monster like this into!! Anyway, after conquering the stairs and standing the beast, I connected a UCD400 and started feeding in some tones...
100Hz. moderately loud.
80.. "
60.. "
40.. ok, bring on the upright bass...
30.. uhmm, still "moderately loud"...
25... wow, uh, still... ?! will this really do 20?!
20... yes!!! still "moderately loud".... ehehehehhh
16... flapflap...
flapflap turned out to be the driver's non-airtight mounting. will fix that tonight.
scary bass!! I believe that I've never, in a home setting, heard such authoritative sub-bass before - Its sick!! And so effortless! The TH is a great step, I believe, to achievable "proper" bass reproduction below 30Hz..
Thanks everyone (again) for the great work!
as has been posted often, very little cone-movement at high output, very high attainable output level, etc etc... no negatives points at all yet! (well, size) ... great stuff!!
The old 13"er:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
finally found its 20Hz home
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
With horns, putting the outputs as close together as possible is better, because they need to be close to work as one big horn. It depends on the quarter wavelength of the highest frequency in question. Dont put them further away from each other then that. For example 107cm for 80hz upper cutoff.
thanks don!
here's the sim-parameters:
and the theoretical response:
greetz, mike
here's the sim-parameters:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and the theoretical response:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
greetz, mike
Thanks iand have a couple of ideas in the works for that top end of the TH which brings me to a ?
I noticed in some earlier post there were some pictures of pvc pipes that were thought to be resonators.
Can that be implemented into the box to help with the upper bandwidth peaks? If so any ideas on how to figure them?
I put the mouth in that way as to couple the horns of course but to take advantage of the surface area of the front of the horn. I can simply put these in a 90 degree configuration and I was thinking have corner loading. I could be wrong but it only seemed logical. This was my thought anyway.
I have been tweeking away at the design and will post as soon as I get it right I have it done to about 408 ltrs and reasonably flat.
Thanks again guys. Nice to have responses and look forward to getting some time to put this project together.
I will try to post some pics of the different configurations I was thinking with when I was designing the box.
dee
I noticed in some earlier post there were some pictures of pvc pipes that were thought to be resonators.
Can that be implemented into the box to help with the upper bandwidth peaks? If so any ideas on how to figure them?
I put the mouth in that way as to couple the horns of course but to take advantage of the surface area of the front of the horn. I can simply put these in a 90 degree configuration and I was thinking have corner loading. I could be wrong but it only seemed logical. This was my thought anyway.
I have been tweeking away at the design and will post as soon as I get it right I have it done to about 408 ltrs and reasonably flat.
Thanks again guys. Nice to have responses and look forward to getting some time to put this project together.
I will try to post some pics of the different configurations I was thinking with when I was designing the box.
dee
ok soon to built my tapped horn, just 1 question
am looking at a simple plate amp so i can cross at 60hz and get rid of the horrid peeks and dips above that, will 16db/octave be sufficent to get rid of the distortion above 60hz?
also it has a low pass filter at 24db/octave stuck at 12hz, is this to low, will the sub just flap around to much? would it be better to have it at say 15 or 18hz (looking for flat to 20hz with my current sims etc
thanks
will this be suited , if not whats the best way to amplify without to higher cost, needs a crossover and low pass filter, thanks
http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=4708
the sub will have the following response
it uses this driver (KAPPA PRO-15LF-2)
http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_sp...=KAPPAPRO-15LF-2&speaker_size=15&SUB_CAT_ID=1
in this horn (not my design lol
http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/Eminence_Horn_Rev_0.pdf
any good?
am looking at a simple plate amp so i can cross at 60hz and get rid of the horrid peeks and dips above that, will 16db/octave be sufficent to get rid of the distortion above 60hz?
also it has a low pass filter at 24db/octave stuck at 12hz, is this to low, will the sub just flap around to much? would it be better to have it at say 15 or 18hz (looking for flat to 20hz with my current sims etc
thanks
will this be suited , if not whats the best way to amplify without to higher cost, needs a crossover and low pass filter, thanks
http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=4708
the sub will have the following response
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
it uses this driver (KAPPA PRO-15LF-2)
http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_sp...=KAPPAPRO-15LF-2&speaker_size=15&SUB_CAT_ID=1
in this horn (not my design lol
http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/Eminence_Horn_Rev_0.pdf
any good?
Hi Naudio,
The lowpass filter at 60hz is probably 12db, 16db filters dont exist normally. If it is the only filtering you do, then i think you will hear alot of distortions. 12db at 60 hz means that the output is -12db at 120hz. and -24 at 240 and so on, 12db every octave. In another thread someone posted this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contours
As you can see, at normal listening levels, the perceived loudness of 120hz signal is about 10-20db louder than a 60hz signal. This means, that with a 12db filter at 60hz, 120hz will be perceived about as loud as 60hz. Your sub will have a perceived linear response up to a few hundred hz, still not taking into account the rising response as seen in hornresp above 100hz.
I use at least 24db for my crossovers. You could use a workaround and dial in the crossover lower than you would normally do, lets say between 30 and 60hz, the exact number has to be figured out with listening.
But since those horns have really low distortion, maybe it still sounds very nice
The filter at 12hz is a highpass filter, which means that high frequencies are passed through it and low frequencies are blocked. To figure out if it is optimal, look at the hornresp excursion graph of 12hz and see if it is about the same level of higher frequency excursions. Of course, a 12hz filter is alot better than no filter at all!
I allways use the one way xmax as found in the drivers spec sheets.
Edit: just looked at the plate sub amp. Maybe a Behringer Amp like the A500 with a active 2 way crossover will be cheaper and more usefull, as they have more options, steeper filters and also filter the low frequencies from your main speakers, which is a great benefit.
The filter is in your plate amp is 18db, which is better than the 12 i guessed, so my above ramblings my be not so important, but still valid to a degree.
The lowpass filter at 60hz is probably 12db, 16db filters dont exist normally. If it is the only filtering you do, then i think you will hear alot of distortions. 12db at 60 hz means that the output is -12db at 120hz. and -24 at 240 and so on, 12db every octave. In another thread someone posted this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contours
As you can see, at normal listening levels, the perceived loudness of 120hz signal is about 10-20db louder than a 60hz signal. This means, that with a 12db filter at 60hz, 120hz will be perceived about as loud as 60hz. Your sub will have a perceived linear response up to a few hundred hz, still not taking into account the rising response as seen in hornresp above 100hz.
I use at least 24db for my crossovers. You could use a workaround and dial in the crossover lower than you would normally do, lets say between 30 and 60hz, the exact number has to be figured out with listening.
But since those horns have really low distortion, maybe it still sounds very nice
The filter at 12hz is a highpass filter, which means that high frequencies are passed through it and low frequencies are blocked. To figure out if it is optimal, look at the hornresp excursion graph of 12hz and see if it is about the same level of higher frequency excursions. Of course, a 12hz filter is alot better than no filter at all!
I allways use the one way xmax as found in the drivers spec sheets.
Edit: just looked at the plate sub amp. Maybe a Behringer Amp like the A500 with a active 2 way crossover will be cheaper and more usefull, as they have more options, steeper filters and also filter the low frequencies from your main speakers, which is a great benefit.
The filter is in your plate amp is 18db, which is better than the 12 i guessed, so my above ramblings my be not so important, but still valid to a degree.