ssanmor said:Hello, Derick, Bert.
Nice to hear your impressions about our modules. In fact, we are getting a lot of interest in the supplies but I must admit that we are much more proud of our amplifiers, a product we have invested a lot of development and fine-tuning time into
The heat dissipation is normal: the modules dissipate only 10W aprox at +/-60V, very similar to other modules out there with similar power capability. So in a 4 ch system you have an idle consumption of around 40W, enough to make the chassis hot.
This dissipation can be reduced by feeding the driver stage with a separate 12V suppy (referred to -VSS!!!, so the SPS80 aux +12V supply can be used for this as long as aux GND is NOT connected to power GND but to -VSS) and/or feeding the modulator with +/-12V supplies (although this doesn't worth the pain in terms of dissipation reduction). See app.notes for more details about this.
Please make sure that the mounting holes of the modules (and SPS80) are scrap free so the thermal contact is optimum. Don't forget to add a _SMALL_ layer of themal compound (I must insist: small).
Nice chassis, by the way!
Have a look at this 6ch 1U rack we have just custom-made for a client (yes, we can also design custom cases as we have laser cutting capabilities):
Sergio,
Thanks for posting the pics. Can you give a couple of clarifications to the above.
1 The 4078 module datasheet says the driver needs +15V to +25V external supply. SPS80 aux is +12 V. Can 12V be used (as you indicate in your posting)?
2 The aux supply is rated for 12 V, 500mA (6W). Is this sufficient to drive the gates on 4 modules. (replacing onboard supplies currently drawing 40W) What current does the gate driver draw?
3 If the aux supply is connected and activated by removing the solder link, will both the gate driver and the modulator be powered externally or does this just repower the gate driver.
4 On the photos you have posted for the 6 channel unit, I cant see the HF chokes on the + and - power leads. Are they there and hidden? If so how were they mounted? If not, are they really needed? Is it just inaudible RF that is supressed or does this affect channel separation?
5 I notice that none of your wires are twisted. How important is the wire twisting?
By the way, theres definitely a market for good cases at the right price. I bought mine for AUD65 from Altronics but had to cut off the rack ears. Maybe up to AUD 100 for one with a thick aluminium base and some of the holes for connectors, terminals, switchetc precut.
Thanks,
Derick
The general rule is to twist the wires and add the HF chokes, they do help reducing coupled audible noise (although it is in any case very low). Some configurations show quite a low noise levels even without the chokes.
For the shake of consistency, we recommend to add the chokes for every module and, if possible, twist the three wires (+VCC, -VSS and GND) using not very thick wire (flexible 1.5mm2 cable is ok).
For bass applications, for example, no need for chokes as the remaining noise is mainly high pitched.
12V for the driver from the SPS80 PSU is at the border, we recommend a bit more voltage but that is ok. You only have to remove the driver solder blob, then connect the aux. GND to -VSS and aux +12V to "Vdriver" pad at the BP4078 board. The modulator remains self-powered.
Yes, the SPS80 will power 4 driver stages happily, but note that this lowers around 3-3.5W from each module, totalling 12-14W less of heat.
It is not possible to feed both the modulator and driver stages with only the +/-12V aux. supply from SPS80, as the driver's is not referenced to GND.
About the cases, we plan to offer them pre-mechanized in several formats, as well as with the packs and ready-assembled for those lazy enough ;-)
For the shake of consistency, we recommend to add the chokes for every module and, if possible, twist the three wires (+VCC, -VSS and GND) using not very thick wire (flexible 1.5mm2 cable is ok).
For bass applications, for example, no need for chokes as the remaining noise is mainly high pitched.
12V for the driver from the SPS80 PSU is at the border, we recommend a bit more voltage but that is ok. You only have to remove the driver solder blob, then connect the aux. GND to -VSS and aux +12V to "Vdriver" pad at the BP4078 board. The modulator remains self-powered.
Yes, the SPS80 will power 4 driver stages happily, but note that this lowers around 3-3.5W from each module, totalling 12-14W less of heat.
It is not possible to feed both the modulator and driver stages with only the +/-12V aux. supply from SPS80, as the driver's is not referenced to GND.
About the cases, we plan to offer them pre-mechanized in several formats, as well as with the packs and ready-assembled for those lazy enough ;-)
It is a custom-made rack with reduced supplies (+/-42V) so 200W per channel. Higher power would require a second fan for forced cooling.
The cost would be the same, but our customer simply doesn't need too much power.
That version, with 3 SPS80 + 6 BP4078, assembled and finished, costs around 1350 euro. We plan to offer simpler versions (2 SPS80+4BP4078 for 4x400W/2x800W, for example).
Glad that you liked it.
The cost would be the same, but our customer simply doesn't need too much power.
That version, with 3 SPS80 + 6 BP4078, assembled and finished, costs around 1350 euro. We plan to offer simpler versions (2 SPS80+4BP4078 for 4x400W/2x800W, for example).
Glad that you liked it.
Mahirerensan,
You are not likely going to achieve very good results using the MAX4295 chip, I myself started to design an amplifier based on it around 3 years ago, but realized that the figures weren't too good and that it limits duty cycle to 80%, so you can get rail-to-rail output, thus limiting output power for a given rail voltage to around 65-70% of what you would get with your own discrete modulator.
I encourage you to build the modulator yourself. Using IR2113 chip is ok, you can get good results with it, just pay a lot of attention to its layout.
Good luck!
You are not likely going to achieve very good results using the MAX4295 chip, I myself started to design an amplifier based on it around 3 years ago, but realized that the figures weren't too good and that it limits duty cycle to 80%, so you can get rail-to-rail output, thus limiting output power for a given rail voltage to around 65-70% of what you would get with your own discrete modulator.
I encourage you to build the modulator yourself. Using IR2113 chip is ok, you can get good results with it, just pay a lot of attention to its layout.
Good luck!
Here you are some clarifications about wiring that are perhaps not clear enough in the datasheets and may seem inconsistent with the photos you can see at our webpage. We'll update the datasheets asap.
There is no need for ultra-thick wire for the +VCC, GND and -VSS supplies of the modules. In fact, 1.5mm2 or so flexible wires with reasonable lenght (15 to 25cm aprox) can be easily routed for a tidy cabling, and can also be twisted together, giving very good results.
The same applies for speaker wires. Use the GND and SPK fastons in the BP4078 module, it provides consistently better results than wiring speaker return to the PSU, as suggested by ESP.
Although noise is not normally an issue, we are sending HF chokes with each order just in case. It does no harm to add them in series with +VCC and -VSS lines of -each- module and can solve small coupled whistles in some rare cases. The photos dgm has sent show a very clever way to mount them: put a small plastic bar at their side for increased mechanical strength, and surround all with heatshrink tube for isolation.
Please take advantage of all the features in the modules. For example, the shutdown input and clipping indicator that will keep you informed of when you are pushing the amp to its limit. Adding a LED (remember the 1K2 resistor in series) with the protect output is also very informative.
Remember that there is also an onboard thermistor that can be easily used for an external simple temperature control / fan driver. (see app.notes)
There is no need for ultra-thick wire for the +VCC, GND and -VSS supplies of the modules. In fact, 1.5mm2 or so flexible wires with reasonable lenght (15 to 25cm aprox) can be easily routed for a tidy cabling, and can also be twisted together, giving very good results.
The same applies for speaker wires. Use the GND and SPK fastons in the BP4078 module, it provides consistently better results than wiring speaker return to the PSU, as suggested by ESP.
Although noise is not normally an issue, we are sending HF chokes with each order just in case. It does no harm to add them in series with +VCC and -VSS lines of -each- module and can solve small coupled whistles in some rare cases. The photos dgm has sent show a very clever way to mount them: put a small plastic bar at their side for increased mechanical strength, and surround all with heatshrink tube for isolation.
Please take advantage of all the features in the modules. For example, the shutdown input and clipping indicator that will keep you informed of when you are pushing the amp to its limit. Adding a LED (remember the 1K2 resistor in series) with the protect output is also very informative.
Remember that there is also an onboard thermistor that can be easily used for an external simple temperature control / fan driver. (see app.notes)
Would going bigger be a disadvantage on a sonic level or just pointless .... swamped by parasitics etc.
Kind of curious because I'm re-wiring my supply and I wanted to double up all the wire as an act of extreme overkill, just to see, for kicks, but if I do it that way I won't have enough wire to finish the job!
I've been looking it up though and the consensus seems to be to not use bigger than you have to.
Returning to the wiring subject...
In fact, at the start we always used and recommended thick wire, but we have lead to the conclusion that it is pointless, and very uncomfortable to handle, provided that the section is still reasonable. As I said, 1.5mm2 (similar to the typical computer cables from the PSU used to power hard-disks, etc) ;-) is quite adequate even for very high power levels.
In fact, at the start we always used and recommended thick wire, but we have lead to the conclusion that it is pointless, and very uncomfortable to handle, provided that the section is still reasonable. As I said, 1.5mm2 (similar to the typical computer cables from the PSU used to power hard-disks, etc) ;-) is quite adequate even for very high power levels.
When you say mains are you refering to the 230VAC input? If so, that's too much and you will run into difficulties when trying to screw them into the SPS80 terminals. 1-1.5mm2 (single or multicore) is enough.
For the +/-60V connections, I would use thinner (around 1 to 1.5 mm2 wire section) and multicore (flexible) wire for easier assembly.
Keep us updated!
For the +/-60V connections, I would use thinner (around 1 to 1.5 mm2 wire section) and multicore (flexible) wire for easier assembly.
Keep us updated!
Sorry, I meant for connecting DC between modules using the type of mains cable used for domestic wiring - remove the outer covering, insulate the earth, twist all three conductors together.
At the present time I have 300mm sections of IEC mains cable between the SPS80 & BP4078s.
When are the cases likely to be available? You just can't get anything worth having here in the UK nowadays.
At the present time I have 300mm sections of IEC mains cable between the SPS80 & BP4078s.
When are the cases likely to be available? You just can't get anything worth having here in the UK nowadays.
More questions on the cabling stuff,
In which category would this fall? ( using 4 * 1.5 mm2 )
http://www.svalander.se/teknik/kablar/flata.htm
a) Good.
b) Bad.
c) Pointless overkill.
Cheers
Erland
In which category would this fall? ( using 4 * 1.5 mm2 )
http://www.svalander.se/teknik/kablar/flata.htm
a) Good.
b) Bad.
c) Pointless overkill.
Cheers
Erland
Ah, ok. That wires can be ok.
About the cases, first we plan to offer a couple of models of cases (19" 1U and non-standard, see below) readily mechanized for accomodating BP4078's and SPS80/30 and all the input/output connectors (XLR / Speakon), as well as signalling LEDs at the front.
Here is a photo of another very succesful model: It is a 2x400W/4ohm or 1x1000W/4ohm amplifier (based on SPS80+2xBP4078 r2). Tested in many open-air parties, etc, has shown great reliability and sound quality.
These photos show a pool with 3 of these amplifiers: The first one moved 2 2x15" Yamaha loudspeakers in stereo setup, the second one moved 2 2x15" JBL loudspeakers in stereo, and the last one was bridged and moved a 4 ohm _BIG_ PA subwoofer. Total: >2600W in a very reduced space.
They have turn-on and clip/protect indicators for each channel, although they were off at the time of the photo, that's why you can't see them.
About the cases, first we plan to offer a couple of models of cases (19" 1U and non-standard, see below) readily mechanized for accomodating BP4078's and SPS80/30 and all the input/output connectors (XLR / Speakon), as well as signalling LEDs at the front.
Here is a photo of another very succesful model: It is a 2x400W/4ohm or 1x1000W/4ohm amplifier (based on SPS80+2xBP4078 r2). Tested in many open-air parties, etc, has shown great reliability and sound quality.
These photos show a pool with 3 of these amplifiers: The first one moved 2 2x15" Yamaha loudspeakers in stereo setup, the second one moved 2 2x15" JBL loudspeakers in stereo, and the last one was bridged and moved a 4 ohm _BIG_ PA subwoofer. Total: >2600W in a very reduced space.
They have turn-on and clip/protect indicators for each channel, although they were off at the time of the photo, that's why you can't see them.
Attachments
Connectors
Ssanmor,
Speakon connectors work well and do save panel space but are awkward for customers to use. You should consider offering an adapter from Speakon to 5way binding posts as an option.
If you like Speakons you would love the Powercons! They are a dramatic improvement over the standard IEC. This is why I specified them for Audience. They have the same disadvantage as the Speakons in that the customer would need to change his power cord end or buy a cord from someone who makes a Powercon terminated one. For me the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.
Audience uses this connector on its flagship power conditioner for good reason, it is better! Of course they also supply the matching power cord. I feel so strongly about this that I am committed to using all Powercon connectors on Audience equiptment.
Sorry if this sounds like an ad for Audience but I do feel strongly about the advantages of the Powercon. They are becoming more accepted and more available all the time. I would like to see an end to power cords falling out of their sockets!
Roger
Ssanmor,
Speakon connectors work well and do save panel space but are awkward for customers to use. You should consider offering an adapter from Speakon to 5way binding posts as an option.
If you like Speakons you would love the Powercons! They are a dramatic improvement over the standard IEC. This is why I specified them for Audience. They have the same disadvantage as the Speakons in that the customer would need to change his power cord end or buy a cord from someone who makes a Powercon terminated one. For me the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.
Audience uses this connector on its flagship power conditioner for good reason, it is better! Of course they also supply the matching power cord. I feel so strongly about this that I am committed to using all Powercon connectors on Audience equiptment.
Sorry if this sounds like an ad for Audience but I do feel strongly about the advantages of the Powercon. They are becoming more accepted and more available all the time. I would like to see an end to power cords falling out of their sockets!
Roger
Speakons
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression of them. I too love them, it is just that the customer will have to remove what ever ends his cables currently have to reterminate with the speakons. Well worth it for me but this is a bit much for the average customer.
I would also suggest soldering the cables in after the screws are tightened to insure the connection won't deteriorate over time.
Roger
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression of them. I too love them, it is just that the customer will have to remove what ever ends his cables currently have to reterminate with the speakons. Well worth it for me but this is a bit much for the average customer.
I would also suggest soldering the cables in after the screws are tightened to insure the connection won't deteriorate over time.
Roger
just redid my 2 Coldamp modules. They now feature the LM4562 at the input.
Also the caps at the inputs are bypassed(shortcut). All the 100uF/25V are replaced with rubycon ZL's like the 220uF/25V are.
Sound is very nice.........warm...........less loud...more subtle.
How I love these small differences.
Also the caps at the inputs are bypassed(shortcut). All the 100uF/25V are replaced with rubycon ZL's like the 220uF/25V are.
Sound is very nice.........warm...........less loud...more subtle.
How I love these small differences.
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