I think you hit the nail right on the head. That's why I was asking how they compare at frequencies north of 100 Hz since I will have subs to cross them to. When I cross my arrays of TC9s at 100 Hz, the cones aren't even moving at 95 db. When I had them full range they would be close to their Xmax at the volume. My room really doesn't help with the drop ceiling. I wonder if the TG9 is worth the extra 60-80% additional cost over the already incredible TC9 in terms of smoothness and finess in the vocals and treble ranges.
In rooms where I've tried to EQ my speakers to be acoustically flat at the listening chair, I've noticed that the room (typical living room) makes things ugly from about 60HZ - 300HZ, depending on which room and other variables. That makes me think that I would want to crossover a line array lower than 100HZ; maybe 60 or 70HZ, since a line array should work much better with room acoustics.
When it comes to paying twice as much to go with the TG9's rather than the TC9's, think about how much time you spend building these line arrays... then think about how long you hope to be using them... If there's any audible improvement at all, the TG9's may be worth it. Having said that, it may not make any difference if you're going to digitally EQ the response to be acoustically flat and smooth anyway (I'm assuming the digital EQ has very good frequency resolution).
When it comes to paying twice as much to go with the TG9's rather than the TC9's, think about how much time you spend building these line arrays... then think about how long you hope to be using them... If there's any audible improvement at all, the TG9's may be worth it. Having said that, it may not make any difference if you're going to digitally EQ the response to be acoustically flat and smooth anyway (I'm assuming the digital EQ has very good frequency resolution).
I can't see any reason to replace perfectly good TC9 drivers in an existing array with the TG9. Save your money and use it for room treatment or upgrading your other equipment. Add some more stuffing inside your enclosure or try to reduce the effects of edge diffraction. I suspect that they are the low hanging fruit that might result in an improvement for you. More time measuring and processing has certainly helped other's improve their sound with similar systems
Frequency response can easily be changed with EQ so long as it's not the result of a resonance or poor driver design. The CSD plot tells much about the quality of the driver.
The TC9 is a pretty clean driver. It takes a much more expensive one to get any better and even then the differences are small. There's a reason Tymphany don't sell so many of the other drivers, for a one off the price might be worth it when you multiply it by 50 the value goes away.
Right now I just have egg create foam lining the walls of the cabinet sections. I know this is usually very poor for a sealed cabinet so I will probably be adding some pink insulation that is unfaced in the future, I believe that's what wesayso found to work the best for impedance plots. How much do I add? Do I just fill it up without compressing it minus an inch or two behind the drivers?
I'm going to start my Dayton 15" Hf stereo subs next week. I want to go sealed, probably 3.5 ft3 internal. Same insulation for stuffing? Thanks
I'm going to start my Dayton 15" Hf stereo subs next week. I want to go sealed, probably 3.5 ft3 internal. Same insulation for stuffing? Thanks
I read about these speakers yesterday on roger russell’s website, and haven’t been able to think of much else since. If someone would be kind enough to mail me the audio express articles, I’d be most grateful.
The thing about which I’m most curious with this design is what happens when you Biuld for a room with 8 foot ceilings, then move to a place with 12’ ceilings. This isn’t in my future at the moment, but with the $$ and time spent to build, I’d like to consider everything.
The thing about which I’m most curious with this design is what happens when you Biuld for a room with 8 foot ceilings, then move to a place with 12’ ceilings. This isn’t in my future at the moment, but with the $$ and time spent to build, I’d like to consider everything.
Got a message and email with articles, so I’m good to go for now. Thanks! Now to figure out the details. I’ve got a CNC router at work, so lots of options. What is the advantage to separating the interior of the speaker column into separate smaller enclosure as some have done? I’m about to sit down and read these articles and see where that takes me. I’ve dreamt of buying/building speakers with added eq since seeing them at the local hifi dealer when I was in high school in the early 90’s. He had a set of the first ones that roger had designed for McIntosh, and they were captivating to me.
My only worry with these speakers is that I’ll never be able to listen to anything else again with any sort of satisfaction.
My only worry with these speakers is that I’ll never be able to listen to anything else again with any sort of satisfaction.
If you're serious about Line Arrays, the amazing source of information that is in the Two Towers thread by wesayso is just staggering.
If you're not in a hurry to build, peruse through the thread and see what kind of amazing speakers you can build in the future.
The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
If you're not in a hurry to build, peruse through the thread and see what kind of amazing speakers you can build in the future.
The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
I’m on it! Just need the appropriate amount of time to devote to reading
The only concerns I have at the moment (other than affording the drivers!), is high frequency roll off, and enclosure size.
Re: HF roll off, I have my doubts as to whether most recordings can even make use of the area past 17khz, especially those on LP records or analog tape. Second, I don’t know whether I or most other people would notice that last little bit of freuqncy on 99% of recordings even if it were there, given how much other tones predominate, and also given the poor quality of most people’s hearing. I take good care to protect my ears from loud noises, but my youth has been slipping away for some time now, and it has been some time since I’ve had a proper hearing test digital recordings can make use of the full spectrum, but how many of our recordings were originally made on analog tape?
As to size l, I’m personally inclined to go along with what the original designer worked out, since he has a long and proven record in the field. But I’m wondering still what the effect of building a larger enclosure would be, and whether there would be a noticeable benefit to a larger volume?
The only concerns I have at the moment (other than affording the drivers!), is high frequency roll off, and enclosure size.
Re: HF roll off, I have my doubts as to whether most recordings can even make use of the area past 17khz, especially those on LP records or analog tape. Second, I don’t know whether I or most other people would notice that last little bit of freuqncy on 99% of recordings even if it were there, given how much other tones predominate, and also given the poor quality of most people’s hearing. I take good care to protect my ears from loud noises, but my youth has been slipping away for some time now, and it has been some time since I’ve had a proper hearing test
digital recordings can make use of the full spectrum, but how many of our recordings were originally made on analog tape?As to size l, I’m personally inclined to go along with what the original designer worked out, since he has a long and proven record in the field. But I’m wondering still what the effect of building a larger enclosure would be, and whether there would be a noticeable benefit to a larger volume?
As wesayso puts it, the floor area is about the size of an A4 paper.
It is best to have individual space for each of the drivers, but if that is too much work, grouping the drivers of same wired polarity together works well too. For example, if you have 25 drivers, it would be 5 shared space for 5 drivers each.
Regarding LF and HF, line arrays need some sort of EQ. There's no way around it. Going active is the best way. That way, you can also add DRC to time align all those drivers to your listening position.
It is best to have individual space for each of the drivers, but if that is too much work, grouping the drivers of same wired polarity together works well too. For example, if you have 25 drivers, it would be 5 shared space for 5 drivers each.
Regarding LF and HF, line arrays need some sort of EQ. There's no way around it. Going active is the best way. That way, you can also add DRC to time align all those drivers to your listening position.
You've got tall ceilings! Your line arrays look nice by the way. How do the TC9's sound compared to the TC9's? Mine were made with the TC9.
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