thanks!
the ribbon super tweeter really transformed the whole speaker
actually, I can only directly hear the ribbon with the ear close to it
so I guess its also phase related
strangest thing is, with the ribbon added, percussion have improved to the almost unreal
I have never heard this much drum rythm details before, ever
its like everything flows freely
someone once said a speaker should sound like breath of air
and thats probably the best way to describe it
kind of like its breathing the music
a really nice surprice
I've been doing a lot of reading on super tweeters lately and how they can add so much more to the listening experience. Often they enhance the lower frequency spectrum by way of reproducing first, second and third order harmonics not being reproduced by existing drivers.
Although not strictly super tweeters, I've just added a pair vintage Yamaha JA 0506 horn tweeters to my system, via a simple high pass filter and L-pad (sensitivity of these things is 105 db!) And like you, I've really noticed that drums especially, sound amazing!
Anyone maybe have a nice paper about this?
I'd like to nominate the JBL 4344 as classic monitor design. Take a look at this build.
Here is the best active monitor I've ever seen and heard:
I heard such monitors in 1974 in Siberian TV center in Irkutsk town. It was made in Hungary by BEAG. It sounded fantastically transparently, may be because I did not hear then anything better. It was bi-amped, each half used 20W push-pull amp with 2x EL34 outputs.
I know the guy who reverse-engineered output transformers from them. They had equal DCR for both halves of primary, and mass of copper for primary and secondary were equal. Internal layers were wound by thinner wires than external layers, 16 total for primaries, and 9 for secondary. Primary had 3 different thicknesses of wire.
I heard such monitors in 1974 in Siberian TV center in Irkutsk town. It was made in Hungary by BEAG. It sounded fantastically transparently, may be because I did not hear then anything better. It was bi-amped, each half used 20W push-pull amp with 2x EL34 outputs.
I know the guy who reverse-engineered output transformers from them. They had equal DCR for both halves of primary, and mass of copper for primary and secondary were equal. Internal layers were wound by thinner wires than external layers, 16 total for primaries, and 9 for secondary. Primary had 3 different thicknesses of wire.
This is a good read;
http://www.hilberink.nl/tannoy/tsupertweeter.pdf
And although too technical for me to get my head around fully, this has some more in-depth explanations of first, second, third and fourth order harmonics;
Fundamental Frequency and Harmonics
bloddy hell
I have listened to classical music for a couple of hours right now
for the first time on these speaker
sitting at the PC it sounds quite good
then I tried so sit properly in my 'audiophile' listening chair
that was a surprice
first let me tell you that I now sit only 4-5 feet from the speaker, or so
and speaker are only 3 feet apart, mid to mid
just about 1 feet between inner sides
please don't ask me why
and it should not work at all, I do know that
but the speakers completely dissappears, as if they are not there at all
and with closed eyes its like being in a concet hall
even with a full symphony orchestra
and its not even loud
simply amazing
I have listened to classical music for a couple of hours right now
for the first time on these speaker
sitting at the PC it sounds quite good
then I tried so sit properly in my 'audiophile' listening chair
that was a surprice
first let me tell you that I now sit only 4-5 feet from the speaker, or so
and speaker are only 3 feet apart, mid to mid
just about 1 feet between inner sides
please don't ask me why
and it should not work at all, I do know that
but the speakers completely dissappears, as if they are not there at all
and with closed eyes its like being in a concet hall
even with a full symphony orchestra
and its not even loud
simply amazing
Attachments
sounds like you need to get yourself some good headphones
actually i posted in response to your portasol love, they are indeed quite handy. i love mine, i rarely do any soldering with it these days, but occasionally its very handy. a word of warning, watch out for the exhaust from the side vent, it can melt stuff while you are concentrated on what you are soldering, i wouldnt go near drivers with one because of this. use mine primarily as a fairly accurate hot air tool for heatshrink and occasional blowtorch.
oh yeah and the crack pipe
actually i posted in response to your portasol love, they are indeed quite handy. i love mine, i rarely do any soldering with it these days, but occasionally its very handy. a word of warning, watch out for the exhaust from the side vent, it can melt stuff while you are concentrated on what you are soldering, i wouldnt go near drivers with one because of this. use mine primarily as a fairly accurate hot air tool for heatshrink and occasional blowtorch.
oh yeah and the crack pipe
sounds like you need to get yourself some good headphones
actually i posted in response to your portasol love, they are indeed quite handy. i love mine
good to hear that
its like you say; always keep that hot spot exhaust in sight
I have learned another nice thing about the gas iron
once hot, you can turn it off, and on againg shortly after, without using the 'ignition'
this means you can keep the heat down easily by turning on and off
yeah, its a very handy tool
btw, I have tried headphones, several times
I have always missed the size of music'
well, I would like a nice Grado, sure thing
this one is surprising, and strange
below you see two coils
series inductor for midrange
and they sound different
and I was surprised to find, they measure the same
induction and DC
even more surprising
with one mounted on left channel, and other on right channel
the soundstage collapses
the one to the left (see picture) sounds significantly smoother
differense is quite clear
because of this I expect function(rolloff) is different
or maybe it could be a kind of ressonanse issue
but this could indicate possible severe issues when you copy a proven design
its a bit worrying
I do not say one is better than the other
only, they are different
below you see two coils
series inductor for midrange
and they sound different
and I was surprised to find, they measure the same
induction and DC
even more surprising
with one mounted on left channel, and other on right channel
the soundstage collapses
the one to the left (see picture) sounds significantly smoother
differense is quite clear
because of this I expect function(rolloff) is different
or maybe it could be a kind of ressonanse issue
but this could indicate possible severe issues when you copy a proven design
its a bit worrying
I do not say one is better than the other
only, they are different
Attachments
well, its been known for ages that phase is the tricky part of crossover design
and the phase in drivers stopband even more tricky
probably the most important too
I think there should be more focus on this
which is what I'm trying to do
the late Mr SteenDuelund claimed that a driver should be 'followed' to -90db
but knowing how a driver can bump and jump in its stopband, probably easier said than done
I always thought yeah, whatever, who cares
but now its beginning to make sense
the problematic seems almost like simple logic
and the phase in drivers stopband even more tricky
probably the most important too
I think there should be more focus on this
which is what I'm trying to do
the late Mr SteenDuelund claimed that a driver should be 'followed' to -90db
but knowing how a driver can bump and jump in its stopband, probably easier said than done
I always thought yeah, whatever, who cares
but now its beginning to make sense
the problematic seems almost like simple logic
FINALE
now it plays
added the missing xobel to woofer high pass
its more or less standard, and normal looking now
maybe apart from ribbon supertweeter
no inductor or anything
acting as active zobel
physical offset, exstremely critical
really takes it to a higher level
just one more comment, on sound
hard to believe, but this is genuine highend
I had my doubts if that really could be true, and still have
but its simply not possible to overhear
you don't have to listen fore it, it's just there, and you know it right away
the closest thing I have ever heard was original Snells with original Audionote(Japan), with top tuned turntable etc etc
many years ago, and never heard anything like it again
note the cheap 'crappy' XO components
I must say, its amazing that this high level of sound quality can be achieved with such
not that its needed, but may still do a few small adjustments
maybe replace the non-polars with poly caps
I guess thats it
cheers
now it plays
added the missing xobel to woofer high pass
its more or less standard, and normal looking now
maybe apart from ribbon supertweeter
no inductor or anything
acting as active zobel
physical offset, exstremely critical
really takes it to a higher level
just one more comment, on sound
hard to believe, but this is genuine highend
I had my doubts if that really could be true, and still have
but its simply not possible to overhear
you don't have to listen fore it, it's just there, and you know it right away
the closest thing I have ever heard was original Snells with original Audionote(Japan), with top tuned turntable etc etc
many years ago, and never heard anything like it again
note the cheap 'crappy' XO components
I must say, its amazing that this high level of sound quality can be achieved with such
not that its needed, but may still do a few small adjustments
maybe replace the non-polars with poly caps
I guess thats it
cheers
Attachments
what about the chipboard you are using? this can resonate at bass frequencies. And what did you mean phase is tricky part?
Don't believe it for a minute. Where's the Zobel on the tweeter? You know you want one....
Really enjoyed reading that, Tinitus. Mega.
I WAS wondering if the ribbon was doing something to lower high frequency impedance of the system, tinitus. Thus making the amplifier more comfortable.
Looking at smooth BBC designs like the famous LS3/5A, a Zobel (680nf/8.2R for this particular KEF T27 tweeter) is essential:
Quite easy to calculate:
Speaker Zobel / Impedance Equalization Network Circuit Calculator
Bit nervous since your 4 ohm design is quite heavy on current already, but it's doable, no? Of course the 3R3 resistor in your tweeter XOver will produce a tonal change. The idea is also to produce an internal damping in the XOver which doesn't rely on the amplifier/cable combination, and the exact tonal response depends on the output impedance of the amp too. Pure Voltage amps less affected than other designs.
Looking at smooth BBC designs like the famous LS3/5A, a Zobel (680nf/8.2R for this particular KEF T27 tweeter) is essential:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Quite easy to calculate:
Speaker Zobel / Impedance Equalization Network Circuit Calculator
Bit nervous since your 4 ohm design is quite heavy on current already, but it's doable, no? Of course the 3R3 resistor in your tweeter XOver will produce a tonal change. The idea is also to produce an internal damping in the XOver which doesn't rely on the amplifier/cable combination, and the exact tonal response depends on the output impedance of the amp too. Pure Voltage amps less affected than other designs.
lets look at it
but I can say fore sure, my amps are able to drive anything, down to 2ohm, with ease
Mivoc, yes
cheap, but works
until now, the crossover have been 'proto experimental'
and really should order slightly better parts
basicly, I have used only what I had already