Falcott
As you can see here:
I have two Buschhorn MKI in my sleeping room. They just are there for my little daughter and because I built them so nice...
Franz
Edit: Fostex FE83E inside
As you can see here:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have two Buschhorn MKI in my sleeping room. They just are there for my little daughter and because I built them so nice...
Franz
Edit: Fostex FE83E inside
"Franz, your Fostex horns looks pretty good, so they would be one possibillity. The woodwork would probobly be a bit complicated for some DIY'ers though."
steen, i guided a friend though the fostex enclosure. it was his first project. he'd never used an electric saw before.
as franz says, it is all right angles. there are many pieces, but it is quite doable for a first time builder. it requires some planning, some patience, and mainly learning to relax and not be intimidated. it is more about thoroughness than difficulty.
a good trick is to have the lumber yard rip all those same width strips. saves a lot of time, and so many people have small cars now anyway. it's worth the few dollars that is usually charged.
i suggest the fostex horn is a good match for the gc in results for effort. i would be very interested to know if anyone has found a superior speaker for the same or less effort. it seems the fostex is a good reference point for this discussion.
(side note: my friend is building open baffles next. can something so simple be comparable? we're both curious to find out.)
steen, i guided a friend though the fostex enclosure. it was his first project. he'd never used an electric saw before.
as franz says, it is all right angles. there are many pieces, but it is quite doable for a first time builder. it requires some planning, some patience, and mainly learning to relax and not be intimidated. it is more about thoroughness than difficulty.
a good trick is to have the lumber yard rip all those same width strips. saves a lot of time, and so many people have small cars now anyway. it's worth the few dollars that is usually charged.
i suggest the fostex horn is a good match for the gc in results for effort. i would be very interested to know if anyone has found a superior speaker for the same or less effort. it seems the fostex is a good reference point for this discussion.
(side note: my friend is building open baffles next. can something so simple be comparable? we're both curious to find out.)
Thanks OFB for some usefull information.
What is the best material for these enclosures?
Is it chipboard, mdf or as I have read on an internet site Birchwoodply
The last is suppossed to result in a more natural sound!
Franz, your b-horns looks great... but you really should get some
order into your rooms No offence at all......
Steen.
What is the best material for these enclosures?
Is it chipboard, mdf or as I have read on an internet site Birchwoodply
The last is suppossed to result in a more natural sound!
Franz, your b-horns looks great... but you really should get some
order into your rooms
No offence at all......Steen.
My second set of DIY speakers where a Pair of "Bigger is Better" Voight pipes with first Pioneer car drivers and then big Isophon Alnico drivers and a Foster horn. The height of these was 6ft with an effective line length of 12ft. I had them mass loaded (ie bass reflex) to smooth out the bass. Very impressive. Lost them to an accident with a DC producing amp.
They produced sub bass without any assistance (I was constantly looking out of the window to see what lorry was arriving). They sounded sweet as anything and the tweeters crossed in so heigh they were barely there. Struggled to play really loud - but were plenty loud enough for my taste in Techno.
Very easy to build and quite good looking if you had the space. Because of there size they were very forgiving of box measurements (the smaller a cabinet the more critical measurements become). I went out and got replacement drivers and will probably bring them back into service some time soon.
I am currently using 12inch Tannoys with concentrically mounted foster horns in a transmission line enclosure. They have never stacked up as well as the "Bigger is Betters", but they will play much louder and stay clean. I am thinking of religating them to my party speakers for outdoor use.
Shoog
They produced sub bass without any assistance (I was constantly looking out of the window to see what lorry was arriving). They sounded sweet as anything and the tweeters crossed in so heigh they were barely there. Struggled to play really loud - but were plenty loud enough for my taste in Techno.
Very easy to build and quite good looking if you had the space. Because of there size they were very forgiving of box measurements (the smaller a cabinet the more critical measurements become). I went out and got replacement drivers and will probably bring them back into service some time soon.
I am currently using 12inch Tannoys with concentrically mounted foster horns in a transmission line enclosure. They have never stacked up as well as the "Bigger is Betters", but they will play much louder and stay clean. I am thinking of religating them to my party speakers for outdoor use.
Shoog
what is the best material? ... there are serious differences of opinion here. i would not like to derail the topic too much.
"chipboard"? do you mean particle board? little bits of sawdust glued together with lots of little voids? do not use this. do you mean OSB - oriented strand board? these are bigger chips, pressed and glued together, mostly directional in the same plane as the sheet. do not use this either. bit of a 'soggy' thing.
mdf. this is solid like a kind of extremely dense paper. not my first choice, but inexpensive and easy to work. (nasty dust - please wear a mask.) many people build speakers with this and quite like it. and doesn't bruce edgar build his edgarhorns from this? i find that curious. makes me want to build identical mdf and plywood horns and then listen.
birch ply. *good* birch ply. no voids. i suspect people who do not like plywood are unable to get it without voids, at least at any reasonable price. softwood ply, and ply with voids would not be so good. (doesn't have to be birch: any voidless hardwood ply would be as good i think.)
we were able to get reasonably priced voidless 3/4 birch ply here. very nice, very stout. had to redraw the plans though.
i think nagaoka speaker designs are based around 3x6' sheets of hardwood ply that are easily available in japan. i often wonder if his designs would be a little different if he was trying to make economical use of american or european sheet goods.
(order in franz's rooms? they are full of diy hi-fi. what could be more welcoming?)
"chipboard"? do you mean particle board? little bits of sawdust glued together with lots of little voids? do not use this. do you mean OSB - oriented strand board? these are bigger chips, pressed and glued together, mostly directional in the same plane as the sheet. do not use this either. bit of a 'soggy' thing.
mdf. this is solid like a kind of extremely dense paper. not my first choice, but inexpensive and easy to work. (nasty dust - please wear a mask.) many people build speakers with this and quite like it. and doesn't bruce edgar build his edgarhorns from this? i find that curious. makes me want to build identical mdf and plywood horns and then listen.
birch ply. *good* birch ply. no voids. i suspect people who do not like plywood are unable to get it without voids, at least at any reasonable price. softwood ply, and ply with voids would not be so good. (doesn't have to be birch: any voidless hardwood ply would be as good i think.)
we were able to get reasonably priced voidless 3/4 birch ply here. very nice, very stout. had to redraw the plans though.
i think nagaoka speaker designs are based around 3x6' sheets of hardwood ply that are easily available in japan. i often wonder if his designs would be a little different if he was trying to make economical use of american or european sheet goods.
(order in franz's rooms? they are full of diy hi-fi. what could be more welcoming?
)
On one of the froums there was a thread were they actually measured resonances and noise from a standard size plate with a standard speaker in a standard set-up.
The forum is closed but maybe i can find the thread in the archives.
From the top of my head this is the list (best on top)
- multilayer materials (MDF - lead or butumen - plywood)(sand filled multilayers etc.)
- plain MDF (more thin layers is better as the density on the surface is different)
- Birch ply
- meranti ply (actyally much worse than good birch)
- particle board
I think there was also a test with granite or something.
I will see if i can dig up the thread, although I think it was in dutch I might extract a list.
Note to Franz,
I have no experiences with horns and was thinking of a bushhorn MK1 with the FRS8 ( or maybe something different). You mentioned that there are significantly better solutions with the cheap tangbands (w3-871??) Can you point me to a design for a little horn with one of these? I do not want to go the fostex route yet as they are too expensive for just fooling around.
I momentarily listen to a 15L BR monitor with seas G17rexp and KT27F with external serial filter on a gainclone and that also sure sounds good.
The forum is closed but maybe i can find the thread in the archives.
From the top of my head this is the list (best on top)
- multilayer materials (MDF - lead or butumen - plywood)(sand filled multilayers etc.)
- plain MDF (more thin layers is better as the density on the surface is different)
- Birch ply
- meranti ply (actyally much worse than good birch)
- particle board
I think there was also a test with granite or something.
I will see if i can dig up the thread, although I think it was in dutch I might extract a list.
Note to Franz,
I have no experiences with horns and was thinking of a bushhorn MK1 with the FRS8 ( or maybe something different). You mentioned that there are significantly better solutions with the cheap tangbands (w3-871??) Can you point me to a design for a little horn with one of these? I do not want to go the fostex route yet as they are too expensive for just fooling around.
I momentarily listen to a 15L BR monitor with seas G17rexp and KT27F with external serial filter on a gainclone and that also sure sounds good.
I did not find some "application" notes from tangband up to now. Here in Europe, Tangbands are quite new. So, you find the first recommendation in a commercial magazine (Hobby Hifi 6/2004, Oct/Nov 2004, www.hobbyhifi.de).
It is called Lancetta, a Transmissionline with two internal helmholtz absobers.
Tue tell the truth: I did not listen to Tangbands up to now. But they seem to be interesting, what I heard from friends and the net.
Here, you can have a kit for the Lancettas (I am not related in any way to this dealer):
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/lancetta.htm
Franz
indoubt, yes, i would like to know what they measured from the different materials.
franz, is this okay with you? i don't want to dilute your topic, but it might be helpful to include a little definitive comment on the different sheet goods within your gainclone speaker thread. i suspect many first time builders will begin here. it could save them a lot of time.
franz, is this okay with you? i don't want to dilute your topic, but it might be helpful to include a little definitive comment on the different sheet goods within your gainclone speaker thread. i suspect many first time builders will begin here. it could save them a lot of time.
prior comment, in case missed
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=479783#post479783
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=479783#post479783
Thats the reason, I opened a thread about gainclone / speaker combination.
The material question: I prefer MDF. The dust is dangerous and nasty, but the accoustical damping is very good.
An interesting model is, to build sidewalls out of MDF and the other parts with void free (!!!) birch plywood.
Franz
BTW
Dont try to round up corners inside an Fostex recommended horn enclosure! This corners are important to break resonances and to stop high- and midrange coming out of the horn. They are part of the concept!
Yes, it is a tube Philips AG9016. 2x2W with EL95. They could not describe it as "HiFi" device, because the norm asked for at least 2x4 or 2x6W.
They are offered quite often at ebay.de for about 100 Euro or less.
Franz
P.S.
Schematics of the AG9016 here: http://www.audiodiskussion.de/foren/fullrange/msg.php?idx=13857
They are offered quite often at ebay.de for about 100 Euro or less.
Franz
P.S.
Schematics of the AG9016 here: http://www.audiodiskussion.de/foren/fullrange/msg.php?idx=13857
I noticed that Phillips too, and it occured to me that I had an old cabinet that looks like it, lying around. It is a good bit smaller than
the Phillips. So I started like this: Franz can have that one in his
sleeping chamber. I suppose I can make something in that old
cabinet, and away it went. Yesterday I soldered this "beauty" up
in about 3 hours. Including cabinet rework and so. A nice little chipamp based on the LM3875 chip! I had all the things in my inventory so cost me more or less nothing. When I hooked it
to a speaker I had a minor chock. Nothing but noise. Then I turned off my solderstation and the amp began to sing!! The lead from the solder iron crossed the speaker cable
It actually sounds pretty good when I connected it to my stereo!
Here is a pic. My son found the cabinet a long time ago on the junkyard. It was some kind of mono amp.
Steen.
the Phillips. So I started like this: Franz can have that one in his
sleeping chamber. I suppose I can make something in that old
cabinet, and away it went. Yesterday I soldered this "beauty" up
in about 3 hours. Including cabinet rework and so. A nice little chipamp based on the LM3875 chip! I had all the things in my inventory so cost me more or less nothing. When I hooked it
to a speaker I had a minor chock. Nothing but noise. Then I turned off my solderstation and the amp began to sing!! The lead from the solder iron crossed the speaker cable
It actually sounds pretty good when I connected it to my stereo!
Here is a pic. My son found the cabinet a long time ago on the junkyard. It was some kind of mono amp.
Steen.
Attachments
Very good, Steen
I am afraid, we are going a "little" bit off topic
Now, your amp must look a little bit different, inside, than an AG9016:
Amazing, the arrangement of the two channels, e.g. the potis!
Lets go back to the topic and wait for the "perfect" combination GC/speaker. Why not 2- or 3 way?
I wrote in the first topic, in this thread:
"But I know: my way is not the "true" way or the only way! Many roads are leading to Rome."
It is just my way
That means, I am aware, other very good solutions are out there!
Franz
I am afraid, we are going a "little" bit off topic
Now, your amp must look a little bit different, inside, than an AG9016:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Amazing, the arrangement of the two channels, e.g. the potis!
Lets go back to the topic and wait for the "perfect" combination GC/speaker. Why not 2- or 3 way?
I wrote in the first topic, in this thread:
"But I know: my way is not the "true" way or the only way! Many roads are leading to Rome."
It is just my way
That means, I am aware, other very good solutions are out there!
Franz
Another suggestion, specially for 5.1 systems:
a 3-4" fullrange system (Fostex, Vifa, Tangband...) in a ceramic ball with a fronthorn to correct linearity:
Quick, easy and cheap to build!
Here in Switzerland, I can buy such ceramic balls in garden shops, for decoration purpose. Cost about 10 Euro per ball.
You must look for an suitable size of the existing hole to insert/adapt the speaker. Some balls/speaker combinations need a wooden ring, to adapt the size.
On the backside, I drill a hole with a ceramic drill for the speaker cable.
Inside, some damping material is needed (wool, hemp , kapok, polyester...).
The speaker itself is fixed just with silicone.
The fronthorn is not needed, as the balls are sounding great. You could, depending on the speaker, correct the linearity with some passive elements as usual.
The front horn is constructed with heat and then formed. If some interest here, I will tell you more.
It is possible, to hang them up, just one more hole to drill. Look here: http://www.audiodiskussion.de/foren/fullrange/msg.php?idx=14080 (do I repeat myself, sometimes? Sorry about that!).
Franz
a 3-4" fullrange system (Fostex, Vifa, Tangband...) in a ceramic ball with a fronthorn to correct linearity:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Quick, easy and cheap to build!
Here in Switzerland, I can buy such ceramic balls in garden shops, for decoration purpose. Cost about 10 Euro per ball.
You must look for an suitable size of the existing hole to insert/adapt the speaker. Some balls/speaker combinations need a wooden ring, to adapt the size.
On the backside, I drill a hole with a ceramic drill for the speaker cable.
Inside, some damping material is needed (wool, hemp
, kapok, polyester...).The speaker itself is fixed just with silicone.
The fronthorn is not needed, as the balls are sounding great. You could, depending on the speaker, correct the linearity with some passive elements as usual.
The front horn is constructed with heat and then formed. If some interest here, I will tell you more.
It is possible, to hang them up, just one more hole to drill. Look here: http://www.audiodiskussion.de/foren/fullrange/msg.php?idx=14080 (do I repeat myself, sometimes? Sorry about that!).
Franz
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