Hi. Just getting into CD upgrading with new opamps inthe output stage.
Have the amps just not installed yet.
But my question is about putting in a new clock.
That seems like a major redesign, which shows the level of
knowledge I have about the guts of these incredibility complex machines.
Im an retired HP 30 yr tech and understand electronics so
feel free to talk the talk.
thanks for any info. Educate me.
Have the amps just not installed yet.
But my question is about putting in a new clock.
That seems like a major redesign, which shows the level of
knowledge I have about the guts of these incredibility complex machines.
Im an retired HP 30 yr tech and understand electronics so
feel free to talk the talk.
thanks for any info. Educate me.
There are upgrade clock pcbs available for CD players. Or, get an external D/A converter box.
67.7376 MHz ?
Designing an oscillator to run at those speeds is one thing, making it a standalone PCB and delivering that signal to its destination is quite another. It will be divided down internally within the player before it is used and as such, the internal clock may well be much better than you might think.
It doesn't matter how good an external oscillator is, you are left with the problems of powering it, and powering it such a way that it doesn't create additional issues, and then of cleanly delivering its output with no degradation.
Unless you have the means to verify that a measurable improvement has occurred then I would probably leave well alone tbh.
Designing an oscillator to run at those speeds is one thing, making it a standalone PCB and delivering that signal to its destination is quite another. It will be divided down internally within the player before it is used and as such, the internal clock may well be much better than you might think.
It doesn't matter how good an external oscillator is, you are left with the problems of powering it, and powering it such a way that it doesn't create additional issues, and then of cleanly delivering its output with no degradation.
Unless you have the means to verify that a measurable improvement has occurred then I would probably leave well alone tbh.
Unlike most people who 'upgrade' clocks in CD players, you know enough to suspect that it might not be as easy as some claim. This is probably one of those 'upgrades which if you know enough to make a success of it then you probably know enough to realise that it is not necessary.oldhifiguy said:
The power supply to the clock can make a difference, I try to use a solid polymer type of capacitor that doesn't have an extremely low esr. Usually around 100uf, and no bypass works well, but the inductance of the circuit may prevent this from working in certain situations.
The dac output filter is another place where some better passive parts may well benefit the sound.
You could search and read about what others have done for weeks straight probably, filtering the chaff from the wheat all the while...
The dac output filter is another place where some better passive parts may well benefit the sound.
You could search and read about what others have done for weeks straight probably, filtering the chaff from the wheat all the while...
correct df96, but being somewhat of a newBE at CD complexity
I had to ask around and educate myself abit before doing anything
which mite not be all that worthwhile in the longrun.
Decided its not worth the trouble.
Thanks all for the eddycation.
Ps: already got up to speed on OPAMP rolling on the outputs.
Looking forward to the 1st go to see how it turns out.
Its just too flaming hot , 107, to do anything today.
I had to ask around and educate myself abit before doing anything
which mite not be all that worthwhile in the longrun.
Decided its not worth the trouble.
Thanks all for the eddycation.
Ps: already got up to speed on OPAMP rolling on the outputs.
Looking forward to the 1st go to see how it turns out.
Its just too flaming hot , 107, to do anything today.
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Opamp swapping can be rewarding, but also has its pitfalls:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...u-have-checked-see-its-stable-havent-you.html
If they are dual opamps (5532 4558 etc) then you probably stand a better chance of them being 'plug and play' whereas singles may not be guaranteed so easy. As always, verify by at least using a scope and seeing nothing untoward is going on.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...u-have-checked-see-its-stable-havent-you.html
If they are dual opamps (5532 4558 etc) then you probably stand a better chance of them being 'plug and play' whereas singles may not be guaranteed so easy. As always, verify by at least using a scope and seeing nothing untoward is going on.
thanks mooly for the alert. I have read that before somewhere.
I think I will be OK. I will be using LM4562 dual OA, a recommended replacement for
the origs.
the player is a sony 302, considered be some to be a very good sounding unit.
And I concur having played it alot with familiar music.
And when I do the swap I will scope it out for any funny buisness going on .
Appreciate all the info from everyone.
PS: Im not going to make a business out of this, only if I see a possibility on some cdp I may happen to acquire.
so far its only 1. and it just because I want to, to see if theres any SQ improvement. Which I read so much about and always enjoy persueing. It all part of my audio enjoyment.
I think I will be OK. I will be using LM4562 dual OA, a recommended replacement for
the origs.
the player is a sony 302, considered be some to be a very good sounding unit.
And I concur having played it alot with familiar music.
And when I do the swap I will scope it out for any funny buisness going on .
Appreciate all the info from everyone.
PS: Im not going to make a business out of this, only if I see a possibility on some cdp I may happen to acquire.
so far its only 1. and it just because I want to, to see if theres any SQ improvement. Which I read so much about and always enjoy persueing. It all part of my audio enjoyment.
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The benefit of reducing clock jitter can be difficult to accurately assess. You will get differing opinions on whether clock jitter reduction is subjectively audible during music playback. Should you not overtly hear subjective improvement you still may be able to measure some improvement if you have access to the proper test gear. If improvement is not subjectively audible, and lacking objective test measurements, you will be relegated to hopefully applying steps which may not improve, or which may even make the jitter worse.
IMHO, access to good test gear (usually because of cost) is one of the primary difficulties of DIY audio design among those who are otherwise knowledgeable in electronics. When designing and building my own components I'm often satisfied that some circuit or parts change or another is audible - for the better or for the worse. In other cases, I don't believe that I consistently hear any difference. It's these null cases where I really wish I had access to something like an AP test rig. instead of merely my basic digital scope and PC sound card based anaylzer.
IMHO, access to good test gear (usually because of cost) is one of the primary difficulties of DIY audio design among those who are otherwise knowledgeable in electronics. When designing and building my own components I'm often satisfied that some circuit or parts change or another is audible - for the better or for the worse. In other cases, I don't believe that I consistently hear any difference. It's these null cases where I really wish I had access to something like an AP test rig. instead of merely my basic digital scope and PC sound card based anaylzer.
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good points ken.
and much to my relief I have decided not to persue the 'clock ugrading'
I have been inquiring about.
due to your reasons and that of others.
I of all people should know about how criticle clocks are having worked at HP Freq. and Time Division testing timing and frequency measuring instruments in the nano/pico second relm.
Not a good thing to mess with in our CD players ifn you aint smart. could mess em up bad.
and much to my relief I have decided not to persue the 'clock ugrading'
I have been inquiring about.
due to your reasons and that of others.
I of all people should know about how criticle clocks are having worked at HP Freq. and Time Division testing timing and frequency measuring instruments in the nano/pico second relm.
Not a good thing to mess with in our CD players ifn you aint smart. could mess em up bad.
You might find it worthwhile to fit sockets so that you can try a few different opamp types. The 4562 is a top performer, no doubt about that, but there are also others that might give you a little something that is different. The ancient and much derided (these days anyway) TL072 is imo a great device when used correctly. It costs buttons and just might surprise you. That one is FET device.
One practical point... is the opamp supply in the Sony -/+5 volts or is it higher ? If it is only 5 volts then the TL072 might not be able to operate correctly at the maximum theoretical output level that a CD can give. Lets say it would be marginal. On a typical music disc there would be no problem, on a test disc at 0DB level there could be.
One practical point... is the opamp supply in the Sony -/+5 volts or is it higher ? If it is only 5 volts then the TL072 might not be able to operate correctly at the maximum theoretical output level that a CD can give. Lets say it would be marginal. On a typical music disc there would be no problem, on a test disc at 0DB level there could be.
chk'd pinouts sony cdp302 orig OA, LM4462 and TL072 and all match.
so you can add the 302 to your list of compatible Opamps if you keep one that is.
Cheers and thank you all again for all of the info you've given me.
Has really been a help.
I'm beginning to like this site. is it US based?
so you can add the 302 to your list of compatible Opamps if you keep one that is.
Cheers and thank you all again for all of the info you've given me.
Has really been a help.
I'm beginning to like this site. is it US based?
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It has its origins down under I think but we consider it pretty global.
99% of opamps follow a standard pinout although the single versions can vary in the way offset null and frequency compensation is applied.
Make sure you obtain the opamps from recognised suppliers as there are lots of fake and remarked devices out there.
99% of opamps follow a standard pinout although the single versions can vary in the way offset null and frequency compensation is applied.
Make sure you obtain the opamps from recognised suppliers as there are lots of fake and remarked devices out there.
I should have known that pinouts had been standardized
its just been many yrs I studyd the little buggers.
Just now getting back in to playin with em.
Glad at least 1 audio product has em to mess with.
You must know Paul Hogan then.
way back when, I would catch the Paul hogan show here in the states.
Very funny guy. What's he up to these days. Retired I guess.?
its just been many yrs I studyd the little buggers.
Just now getting back in to playin with em.
Glad at least 1 audio product has em to mess with.
You must know Paul Hogan then.
way back when, I would catch the Paul hogan show here in the states.
Very funny guy. What's he up to these days. Retired I guess.?
I am chuggin rite along with this upgraging stuff. Did a friends sony 337 with new BB2604s and 2 tiny decoupling caps on the pwr pins and he says the improvement is really good. But he hears a flea fart at 100ft so has gold hearing. I use him as my test subject. My next UG will be my sony302 with 4 new OAs and some caps..
A 2nd 302 waits for new tray belts then new OAs and caps too.
Now I want other CDPs to mess with. I read where Philips /magnavox are worthy CDPs
for basic great SQ, so thats where my next venture will take me ifn I can
find something. have complete list of CDP that have the tda1514(?) dacs. sposed ta b
pretty good.
so much for now.
A 2nd 302 waits for new tray belts then new OAs and caps too.
Now I want other CDPs to mess with. I read where Philips /magnavox are worthy CDPs
for basic great SQ, so thats where my next venture will take me ifn I can
find something. have complete list of CDP that have the tda1514(?) dacs. sposed ta b
pretty good.
so much for now.
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