Thanks for the replies.
It's basically down to this:
(Grado is out of the picture, and I was bit disappointed that they never responded to my email.)
Lyra Dorian + MC Headamp
Soundsmith SMMC1
I personally want to learn towards the Lyra, but the addition of the headamp makes me worried. I trust the headamp, and it's quality, but it is another piece in the chain. The otherside is that at 2.12mV the SMMC1 almost needs a headamp if I want to play it at certain levels.
-West
It's basically down to this:
(Grado is out of the picture, and I was bit disappointed that they never responded to my email.)
Lyra Dorian + MC Headamp
Soundsmith SMMC1
I personally want to learn towards the Lyra, but the addition of the headamp makes me worried. I trust the headamp, and it's quality, but it is another piece in the chain. The otherside is that at 2.12mV the SMMC1 almost needs a headamp if I want to play it at certain levels.
-West
The salient feature of the belt drive turntable is that it is easily engineered by cottage industry non-engineers. It is difficult to beat turntables designed for radio station use such as the Thorens TD124, Garrard 301, or Technics SP10 in terms of real performance.
West, did you decide not to consider the Denon 103 as a budget cartridge? I think it could be well worth your while.
John
I guess the Thorens TD 125, 160, etc. etc. the Linns, various Braun units and a host of japanese, english, french belt drive TT's are all manufactured by Cottage Industry nincompoops who had no idea of engineering.
The salient point is that I refrain from any personal disparaging your vast knowledge of cottage industries.
There is a difference in design predicated by the special demand for studio machines like the emts or its lowly competitor, the technics units.
Not to veer off further in this thread, read here the rationale for using idler wheel tt's and why their importance diminished.
http://the.sound-signal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6&Itemid=3
No one here has knowledge as vast as yours.
I would hardly consider the Technics SP10MkII or MkIII lowly. There was only one turntable ever made with a higher S/N ratio than the MkIII and it would be difficult to find a better engineered turntable.
Idler wheel driven turntables retain their value because of real performance, especially when used in a proper plinth. Many people who have owned the likes of Linn, TD125, Basis, etc. prefer the Garrard 301 and Thorens TD124. How did you find the performance of the 301 or the TD124 in your system when you tried them? Maybe the Technics SP10s weren't to your liking, either. You should have perhaps auditioned them with something other than the cheap plastic Rega arm or aged, outdated SME 3009 series.
John
you have demonstrated deserving of this honour.
After all, you know cottage industries so well. Not I.
Compared to the EMT.
I have only use the TD 125, The TD 160 and TD 150 and the Transriptors Hydraulik reference.
Rega arms are not made of plastic - wrong again, maybe you know not so much after all.
as outdated as in Idler Drive?
I only remember measurements from the late 60's, early 70's, where idler drives usually fell behind belt drive when rumple was measured.
I compare my arm/cartridge system on various test records.
One of my favourites is co - authored by Floyd Toole, mostly using music signals to test.
Both SME arms as well as a airbearing arm track well at +12dB test track. Excellent tracking of drumsignals.
The frequency response of the DL 103 as measured via RTA on a pink noise signal is quite flat from 20 - 20kHz.
Harmonics are well controlled on single frequency test signals. Hardly a difference between arms.
Thats good enough for me.
Still do not know how or why arms could sound ancient or why this should even be a disparaging remark when irony of ironies - playing "ancient" records. 100 year old tech. after all, on an even older idler system predating the LP.
You guys are really funny sometimes.
jlsem said:
Ahh, the holy grail. The scientifically and statistically valid double-blind listening test. Like Fusion i am still waiting for that to get figured out.
We had the SP-10 and a big mother Denon set up for years with Grace 707s (we sold literally into the 4 figures of these) and they got used daily to compare to belt drive TTs. They were always well set up & well maintained.
dave
Yes, it is difficult to make recommendations when audio-kraut gets involved. I don't know what your exact budget is, but the Denon 103 series are great for the price and the Shelter 501 cartridge is excellent for under $1000. You can buy good used cartridges on Audiogon for pretty fair prices if you want to do a little better. My favorite budget cartridge is the AT150MLX, but the retail price has recently jumped to almost $800. I'm sorry, but the only other cartridges I am familiar with are way above the $1000 mark and the arm I am the most familiar with is the SME 312S which is very light but expensive as well. My own rig is Micro Seiki (belt drive) seen here: http://www.triodeandco.us/lonestar07/photos/index.html (photos 22 and 23). I have recently purchased an SP10MkII based on listening to my friends' systems where a Basis and two Walkers have been replaced by Technics' based on the superior performance of the latter. The SP10s I'm most familiar with belong to my good friend Albert Porter and can be seen here: http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/sp10plinth.html
John
John
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