By the way, SY, I fired up Demian's ST1710 with my HP3563 today and measured some wires. There it was, once more. Every wire type a little different, with my 'references' still the best. Got 6th, 7th and 8th harmonic from certain ones, but of course, my RS cable has broken in and measured pretty good, compared to some VERY expensive cables with less signal time on them. Some things never change.
Tony, what you came to know, and what actually was, is the problem. I made my first working complementary symmetry input power amp in 1968. Where were you then? Where was Jim B? Where was M. Leach? Dan Meyer DID independently develop the comp diff input stage, but years later, and alleged to me that Jim B, learned it from him. The ONLY other designer that I know, who did the comp diff input stage at the same time as me, was Jon Iverson. He was a great audio designer.
Why didn't I publish? You are just lucky that I did not put it in my patent notebook at AMPEX where I then worked. Perhaps everyone would have paid royalties, then.
Why didn't I publish? You are just lucky that I did not put it in my patent notebook at AMPEX where I then worked. Perhaps everyone would have paid royalties, then.
That measurable differences can be obtained has never been disputed or doubted by me. Further, I cannot malign or applaud his circuit designs, as I wouldn't know what I was talking about.
I can however easily counter his statements regarding cable burn-in.
There simply isn't a shred of objective evidence to back his preposterous claims of audible difference.
Even Einstein had to objectively prove his claims before anyone took him seriously. Should any of us expect less?
Precisely. I can hear differences between cables in my systems - that is until I objectively test these subjective observations, at which time I find that my brain has deluded itself into hearing what it wants to hear. I can certainly measure differences, because there are measurable differences. However, there is no difference which is discernible to any human ear. Not to mine, not to yours, not to anyone's. You have not, and cannot prove differently.
You're right people are being too nasty and it gets in the way of having a real heated technical discussion.
BTW could you post a repeatable experiment where I can confirm wire distortion, better yet, burn-in eliminating it? I have access to all the necessary equipment. You do have better things to do.
So you can repeatedly and accurately pick out different cables in double-blind listening tests? Wow! I would love to see detailed documentation of the tests, cables, equipment, results, etc. How about AC power cords? Signal and power cables? You truly are a legend!
I trust my ears, but my brain tells me what I want to hear.
Or you could trust the I don't know people or the who cares? people or maybe even the I hear something but it doesn't make much of a difference people.
Actually, you should save your money. I will save my money also, but I will refrain from drinking good wine, because it could be a rip-off. In fact, for me, it mostly is.
I have pretty good cables, but I am in the business, so people give me things. I haven't changed my own cables in the last 10 years. I do make cable test measurements, however, and I find measurable differences. I still do not know exactly why there are differences in the measured distortion in cables at low levels, like .1V rms. It is frustrating, because when I am measuring my own designs, often I must use cables at both the input and output during the test. So, how much is the cable, and how much is the circuit contributing to the overall distortion? Of course, it could be a visual hallucination, and even if I take a photo of the spectrum, maybe the equipment which is not changed in calibration during the test, might be acting up. Or maybe some really, really subtle difference in grounding could make the difference.
Whatever.
I have pretty good cables, but I am in the business, so people give me things. I haven't changed my own cables in the last 10 years. I do make cable test measurements, however, and I find measurable differences. I still do not know exactly why there are differences in the measured distortion in cables at low levels, like .1V rms. It is frustrating, because when I am measuring my own designs, often I must use cables at both the input and output during the test. So, how much is the cable, and how much is the circuit contributing to the overall distortion? Of course, it could be a visual hallucination, and even if I take a photo of the spectrum, maybe the equipment which is not changed in calibration during the test, might be acting up. Or maybe some really, really subtle difference in grounding could make the difference.
Whatever.
So do you think the expensive wine gives you a cleaner buzz than the cheap wine? This is a real debate in my family - my dad says alcohol is alcohol. Of course that doesn't stop him from asking for Grand Marnier for his Christmas present.
Are you joking or not? If not, please tell us more.
Sad to see an insulting post like this on the forum, it say a lot about you though. Is that all you can bring to the discussion?
Why would you want to do that, the PCB can 'burn-in' with the rest of the components on it, while it is used..
As I've written about before, we did swap cables in and out of the test setup and the results were certainly consistent (though just at the edge of detectability, something like -140dBV if memory serves). Problem was, they were not consistent with the (then-repeatable) results John had gotten several days before. I would suspect (without evidence) that this has far more to do with working at the bleeding edge of test equipment and the interaction of noise pickup and cable impedances with the send and receive circuitry of the test gear. If one were to seriously put forth a hypothesis, this day to day variability would need to be nailed down, and one would also have to validate the idea of the ear being able to detect phenomena four or five orders of magnitude below any established thresholds.
UFOs are not a bad analogy.
Now you're getting closer to something with plausibility. Epoxy and fishplate PCBs do have moisture pickup which measurable affects their dielectric properties, and that moisture pickup can be reduced with long heating. Significant? I doubt it in most cases for audio circuitry (electrometers and timing circuits are a different matter), but at least we're talking about real stuff and not N-Rays.
No, about -110 with just one tone, no IM. Remember, the distortion level gets amplified by at least 30 dB by the power amp. It was NOT inconsistent, just that the equipment was operating near its threshold, and I had been measuring the same thing for at least 5 years. Yes, some RS cables went GOOD, because I accidently left them in the machine and they broke in. YOU KNOW, break-in, that impossible thing for a cable to do.
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