Ok, has anyone TESTED or listened to one of the bullet "super tweeters" like the Pyle PDBT-35, also offered by Cadence CLVT-60, Audiopipe and an number of other resellers and importers. (Peavey too?)
There appear to be a few versions in 4 ohm and 8 ohm, ferrofluid and not, also higher claimed sensitivity (~108) and lower (~98), higher and lower power handling. All seem to be China sourced. (would like to know which factory makes 'em).
If anyone has a bonafide curve and waterfall for these I'm interested in seeing it.
Parts Express sells the either the Pyle or the Peavey, can't recall now.
Also there is a Visaton unit at higher price that is somewhat similar in design, the published curve for it is not bad... http://www.visaton.de/en/chassis_zubehoer/ht_horn/tl16h_8.html
I'm very curious as I am looking for something to augment a very nice horn above ~10khz... (not an easy task in reality). Trying to gauge if these inexpensive units have enough merit to warrant dorking with the obviously flawed horn flare to "gild the lily" or make the "silk purse from the sow's ear"...
Yes, I have actually gone ahead and purchased some to check out - but I'm interested in what others have found and measured...
_-_-bear
There appear to be a few versions in 4 ohm and 8 ohm, ferrofluid and not, also higher claimed sensitivity (~108) and lower (~98), higher and lower power handling. All seem to be China sourced. (would like to know which factory makes 'em).
If anyone has a bonafide curve and waterfall for these I'm interested in seeing it.
Parts Express sells the either the Pyle or the Peavey, can't recall now.
Also there is a Visaton unit at higher price that is somewhat similar in design, the published curve for it is not bad... http://www.visaton.de/en/chassis_zubehoer/ht_horn/tl16h_8.html
I'm very curious as I am looking for something to augment a very nice horn above ~10khz... (not an easy task in reality). Trying to gauge if these inexpensive units have enough merit to warrant dorking with the obviously flawed horn flare to "gild the lily" or make the "silk purse from the sow's ear"...
Yes, I have actually gone ahead and purchased some to check out - but I'm interested in what others have found and measured...
_-_-bear
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Now you see I have a pair of these -
8ohm 70wrms, 1500Hz - 20kHz according to the bumpf.
And I am unsure what to do with them! So overall I am of no help, unless I could test one and divulge the results, however I really don't know how to go about that as I am only just embarking on my DIY audio path to enlightenment!
Cheers,
J
8ohm 70wrms, 1500Hz - 20kHz according to the bumpf.
And I am unsure what to do with them! So overall I am of no help, unless I could test one and divulge the results, however I really don't know how to go about that as I am only just embarking on my DIY audio path to enlightenment!
Cheers,
J
Hello All,
I have a pair of JBL 075’s the ALINCO version of this one
http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2402.pdf .
Played with other JBL drivers the performance is very dynamic. The JBL rolls (falls off) sharply above 15K Hz , not that I can hear it.
This style driver projects a narrow beam, if you are in the sweet spot that is ok. Let us know how yours works.
DT
All just for fun!
I have a pair of JBL 075’s the ALINCO version of this one
http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2402.pdf .
Played with other JBL drivers the performance is very dynamic. The JBL rolls (falls off) sharply above 15K Hz , not that I can hear it.
This style driver projects a narrow beam, if you are in the sweet spot that is ok. Let us know how yours works.
DT
All just for fun!
Randy, I can easily get a pair from Cadence, but I have no measurement system right now as my ISA PC that ran LMS has croaked - waiting for the new LX500 from LinearX:
LX500 - Precision Audio & Acoustic Analyzer - 1
Update - LinearX Forums
Lukas
LX500 - Precision Audio & Acoustic Analyzer - 1
Update - LinearX Forums
Lukas
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>>> if you are in the sweet spot that is ok.
Their sweat spot may be somewhat off axis. Having played around with one of the cheaper Eminence compression drivers in an inexpensive Dayton waveguide i can say they satisfy my ears when crossed higher than say 8khz... lower than that they draw attention to themselves in an obvious way. I do believe they have their possibilities and are worth exploring.
Their sweat spot may be somewhat off axis. Having played around with one of the cheaper Eminence compression drivers in an inexpensive Dayton waveguide i can say they satisfy my ears when crossed higher than say 8khz... lower than that they draw attention to themselves in an obvious way. I do believe they have their possibilities and are worth exploring.
I have a handful of Gauss 1502 built tweeters that I'm using above 7.2Khz in a active setup with digital x-over.
There are some obvious issues, such as the C-C spacing causing lobbing and also I have not payed any attention to matching the polar patterns.
They don't seem to be very efficient above about 12Khz (IIRC). I'd like to try the fostex units, but they are pretty expensive.
For the most part I've been very happy with the sound, but I'm sure it could be improved around the crossover region.
They are a conical design with a 90x90 deg dispersion pattern.
There are some obvious issues, such as the C-C spacing causing lobbing and also I have not payed any attention to matching the polar patterns.
They don't seem to be very efficient above about 12Khz (IIRC). I'd like to try the fostex units, but they are pretty expensive.
For the most part I've been very happy with the sound, but I'm sure it could be improved around the crossover region.
They are a conical design with a 90x90 deg dispersion pattern.
Attachments
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Now you see I have a pair of these -
I have a pair of those. Mine are called Goldwoods. The 1st thing you do with those is dissassemble them and using a scalpel & small files and clear up all the plastic castings -- i haven't gone further than that yet.
dave
haha excellent, I shall get out my tools and needle files!
Wonder what they are like? The visible bits of the circuit board at the back do appear to be of low quality, however I cannot complain as they were given to me!
I also love the name, TITANIUM SUPER BULLET TWEETER!!!!!!! Does not get any more boastful than that :-D
J
Wonder what they are like? The visible bits of the circuit board at the back do appear to be of low quality, however I cannot complain as they were given to me!
I also love the name, TITANIUM SUPER BULLET TWEETER!!!!!!! Does not get any more boastful than that :-D
J
Super tweeters
I have looked extensively at the offering from PE ; keeping in the confines of decent performance at a reasonable price. The only item I would be tempted to try is the APT 50/ APT 80 by Eminence. The stand alone unit is the APT 50
The smallest pre mounted horn is the best; that version is known as the
APT 80. If you ever want to use that unit on any other standard thread, you'll need the adapter #apt3.
I have looked extensively at the offering from PE ; keeping in the confines of decent performance at a reasonable price. The only item I would be tempted to try is the APT 50/ APT 80 by Eminence. The stand alone unit is the APT 50
The smallest pre mounted horn is the best; that version is known as the
APT 80. If you ever want to use that unit on any other standard thread, you'll need the adapter #apt3.
Scott L, not sure why you like these... phenolic diaphragms are not known for working well up into higher freqs and have more mass than a titanium, but otoh better internal damping... The freq resp isn't bad, but the way that the throat enters (or appears to enter) the conic section is a little odd... and also looks like it is full of diffraction effects. Otoh who knows, maybe it sounds great?
As far as the "Titanium Super Bullet Tweeter" when I looked at them my take was that the dimensions of the throat were larger than I would like - I am looking for ~10kHz. and up so the smaller the dimensions, the better the shot at it!
_-_-bear
Still wondering if anyone has tested the original ones?
As far as the "Titanium Super Bullet Tweeter" when I looked at them my take was that the dimensions of the throat were larger than I would like - I am looking for ~10kHz. and up so the smaller the dimensions, the better the shot at it!
_-_-bear
Still wondering if anyone has tested the original ones?
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Earthworks Microphones has a paper on how to measure speaker drivers:
How Earthworks Measures Microphones
By Alex Khenkin, Director of Engineering, Earthworks
http://www.earthworksaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/how-earthworks-measures-mics.pdf
There may be an article from Earthworks on how to measure speakers, but that wasn't one! It is a very interesting article on measurement microphones...
In terms of measuring something like these tweeters a whole lot depends on what ur trying to measure, and what your goal is in doing measurements.
If ur merely looking for an idea as to how it performs or fits into a system, the job is not so difficult nor does one have to be terribly precise. Rule of thumb says that if you measure on axis to the driver and use an FFT type box, stay within 1m (~36") or less you'll get a good idea what the driver is doing. Imperfect, but useful for setting up xovers and seeing if what you have is likely to work for you at all... when trying to measure a multi-way system it gets complex very quickly since there is no single microphone position that can be said to accurately characterize the speaker. The farther back you get the more the room plays in, and the closer you get the less "on axis" energy you can measure and the more off axis you are, plus the phase relationship between the two drivers moves as you move up or down... there are "quasi anechoic" techniques that try to take these issues out of the picture, and to some extent they do, BUT that's not how one actually listens to a speaker in a room either!
(well not usually)
Especially with tweeters the effects of diffractions are going to be big issues - so the way that they are placed and/or mounted is going to play a large role in the measured response and the way they sound...
But for purposes of baseline comparisons, a starting point, I'd put a measurement mic on-axis and maybe a few inches away from the tweeter and see what it does - that's likely to be the absolute best case measurement you can get. A few spot checks at 5-10-15 -30 degrees off axis are not a bad idea while one is doing this sort of thing...
Even a measurement with a non-calibrated measurement system and/or microphone will yield useful information... big anomalies in response (assuming a flat, but uncalibrated measurement mic) will still show up, as will the effect(s) of a crossover...
_-_-bear
In terms of measuring something like these tweeters a whole lot depends on what ur trying to measure, and what your goal is in doing measurements.
If ur merely looking for an idea as to how it performs or fits into a system, the job is not so difficult nor does one have to be terribly precise. Rule of thumb says that if you measure on axis to the driver and use an FFT type box, stay within 1m (~36") or less you'll get a good idea what the driver is doing. Imperfect, but useful for setting up xovers and seeing if what you have is likely to work for you at all... when trying to measure a multi-way system it gets complex very quickly since there is no single microphone position that can be said to accurately characterize the speaker. The farther back you get the more the room plays in, and the closer you get the less "on axis" energy you can measure and the more off axis you are, plus the phase relationship between the two drivers moves as you move up or down... there are "quasi anechoic" techniques that try to take these issues out of the picture, and to some extent they do, BUT that's not how one actually listens to a speaker in a room either!
(well not usually)
Especially with tweeters the effects of diffractions are going to be big issues - so the way that they are placed and/or mounted is going to play a large role in the measured response and the way they sound...
But for purposes of baseline comparisons, a starting point, I'd put a measurement mic on-axis and maybe a few inches away from the tweeter and see what it does - that's likely to be the absolute best case measurement you can get. A few spot checks at 5-10-15 -30 degrees off axis are not a bad idea while one is doing this sort of thing...
Even a measurement with a non-calibrated measurement system and/or microphone will yield useful information... big anomalies in response (assuming a flat, but uncalibrated measurement mic) will still show up, as will the effect(s) of a crossover...
_-_-bear
Hi i searched for such to.
And did wander why I wanted a super tweeter when the highest frequency I can hear is 13kHz?
My brains say no use of a super tweeter. Although I really would like to try a Fostex T900A.
But I know that the bright sound we appreciate is more in the midrange.
eminece lowcost Page not found | Eminence Speaker
A nice B&C type. B&C Speakers
Beyma Acustica Beyma - Fabricante Altavoces Profesionales desde 1969
Acustica Beyma - Fabricante Altavoces Profesionales desde 1969
This one is very nice
Acustica Beyma - Fabricante Altavoces Profesionales desde 1969
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/CP22.pdf
Selenium
http://www.selenium.com.br/site/assets/produtosfinal/324_pdfManual.pdf
And did wander why I wanted a super tweeter when the highest frequency I can hear is 13kHz?
My brains say no use of a super tweeter. Although I really would like to try a Fostex T900A.
But I know that the bright sound we appreciate is more in the midrange.
eminece lowcost Page not found | Eminence Speaker
A nice B&C type. B&C Speakers
Beyma Acustica Beyma - Fabricante Altavoces Profesionales desde 1969
Acustica Beyma - Fabricante Altavoces Profesionales desde 1969
This one is very nice
Acustica Beyma - Fabricante Altavoces Profesionales desde 1969
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/CP22.pdf
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Selenium
http://www.selenium.com.br/site/assets/produtosfinal/324_pdfManual.pdf
P audio opening angle 60 degrees most super tweeter won't do that.
http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/PHT-407.pdf
http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/PHT-407N.pdf
http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/PHT-407.pdf
http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/PHT-407N.pdf
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I have had both the 075 alnico and currently a pair of 2402 with ferrite magnets. I like them all. The narrow directivity is IMHO a big advantage in small listening rooms like mine. Yes they do drop off quickly above 15kHz - mine actually seem to do a bit better than 16kHz before nose diving, but as I can't hear that high it's not a problem for me. They do seem to have reasonably flat measured in room response out to their cut off point. With really good direct heated triode amplification they just sing..
And they are good in domestic applications from a little over 2kHz and up.. (I currently cross from JBL 2440 on 2311 horns to 2402 at 8kHz, 2nd order butterworth) Remember this is just my opinion which any of you are perfectly entitled to respectfully disregard as you see fit. I don't need/want to be disabused of my notion.. Just sayin'...
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