Yes, the Peerless 830874 and 830875 are very similar. Joe Rasmussen of the 'Elsinore' Loudspeaker Project fame did a fairly comprehensive comparison of the two.
Elsinore Nomex Drivers
Frankly, you are the first person who's confused. They are all passive, unless otherwise stated. Maybe you have not been following my blog.
Why would that be. Time alignment simply means sounds from the woofer and the tweeter reach the ear the same time. You can do that electronically by using delays or passively by way of using a step, a tilt, a delay network or none just mentioned.
Perhaps you can explain to me how it's done. Time alignment is not rocket science. It is commonly used in pro systems.
I have no problem if I am wrong. I'll be grateful if someone can correct me. That's how I learn.
You have the right to reject my work. But to be credible,you need to present your work that states the contrary. Otherwise, it's just your opinion.
I strongly suggest you try out time alignment for yourself. Get hold of a mini-dsp and play with the delays. I'm sure a lot of members here, myself included, would like to know how you time align your drivers.
Your 830875 is a fine driver. Parallel two of them and they will outperform a 830869. I actually have this in mind with my 830874. What worries me is the demand on the power amplifier. Most amps are not very comfortable with such an arrangement.
I believe you mean the ( Cardinal-TA ) and ( Cardinal-DCR-TA ).
I did not see a step or a tilt in the picture. I just have not come across a passive network that makes sounds from the woofer and the tweeter reach the ear the same time. A link to such a passive network would be much appreciated.
A link to such a passive network for "pro system" would be much appreciated.
All I did was asking for more technical information. You complaint that the Peerless was slow, but did not showed any step function measurement you make.
You claimed that you can use passive delay to do speaker time alignment, but I cannot find the description of any such crossover in your blog. Do you consider DSP a passive device?
I am just asking. I don't see that I "state the contrary" yet.
Minimum phase crossover design
It is a well exercised practice to design passive crossover with minimum phase variation at the crossover frequency using Hilbert-Bode FFT transform. It is the minimal requirement to get good staging performance, but it is not a substitute for physical time alignment. Paul Carmody gave a very good description on how to do this using Response Modeler.
Simulated Measurements - undefinition
Paul Carmody's DIY pages gave very good description on step-by-step on good practice of speaker design. It is a must read for new hobbyist who wants to try his hand on crossover and cabinet design. For the actual simulation process, Jeff Bagby's Passive Crossover Designer 7.0 is a very handy tool to have. It runs as a Excel spreadsheet. My learning experience of building a 2-way bookshelf.
For measurement of speaker performance, I like the ARTA software by Ivo Mateljan. You can get a calibrated microphone and a USB microphone interface for well under $100. You are ready to go with any PC computer. The more difficult part is to find a big enough room for the measurement. An example of the measurement I made.
It is a well exercised practice to design passive crossover with minimum phase variation at the crossover frequency using Hilbert-Bode FFT transform. It is the minimal requirement to get good staging performance, but it is not a substitute for physical time alignment. Paul Carmody gave a very good description on how to do this using Response Modeler.
Simulated Measurements - undefinition
Paul Carmody's DIY pages gave very good description on step-by-step on good practice of speaker design. It is a must read for new hobbyist who wants to try his hand on crossover and cabinet design. For the actual simulation process, Jeff Bagby's Passive Crossover Designer 7.0 is a very handy tool to have. It runs as a Excel spreadsheet. My learning experience of building a 2-way bookshelf.
For measurement of speaker performance, I like the ARTA software by Ivo Mateljan. You can get a calibrated microphone and a USB microphone interface for well under $100. You are ready to go with any PC computer. The more difficult part is to find a big enough room for the measurement. An example of the measurement I made.
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I tried to send you a PM, but you have exceed your quota and cannot accept more PM.
The diyaudio.com is a DIY forum. It is not right for poster to make commercial claims without providing substantiation. If it sounds rude to you, I am sorry. Yes, I expect substance in post here.
Look at this for a passive lattice delay on the HP:
Zaph|Audio - ZD5 - Scan Speak 15W8530K00 and Vifa XT25
I think John Krutke is talking about a phase delay which is important to crossover drivers with physical offset. It matches the phase of the two drivers at the crossover region.
I think that all well designed speaker has this minimum phase characteristic. John Krutke said that it is important, but I did not see him calling this "time aligned".
May be the definition of time alignment has changed from the original? I am really confused.
Ralf, time delay from driver offset is a group delay and not the same as phase varition in components of a speaker. The driver offset causes phase delay too. Phase delay is a function of frequency, making it possible to compensate with passive component network. The drivers and the crossover are all non-linear in phase, making it necessary to have minimum phase crossover design. I am not aware that it is possible to accomplish time (group) delay in passive network.
It is possible to compensate the time delay caused by driver offset using stepped baffle. But it is still necessary to design crossover for minimum phase. If someone trying to call a minimum phase designed loudspeaker "time aligned", it is a bit of truth stretching to me.
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I am curious as to what is a "minimum phase designed loudspeaker"? How is it different from "other" designed loudspeaker? How would you defined a "minimum phase designed"?
Please, read my post #105. Minimum phase crossover speaker design is a very well understood practice. It is NOT my invention.
Simulated Measurements - undefinition
Paul_Carmody said:
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OK, I see what you meant. I thought you were trying to slip through your own bs.
I am sorry to disappoint you. Paul Carmody is a very well respected loudspeaker designer and a tremendous asset to the DIY community. His website is choke full of information.
Just curious. What bs do you use when you built your own speaker?
Hi DVjorge,
It seems that you prefer to mess around with things rather than get a good system and be done with it. I am in a similar position. I have more speaker drivers than I have cabinets!!
My thoughts are this. You need to dsp and active. A lot easier to experiment with crossover frequency response, slope, phase, delay etc.
Buy a minidsp at minidsp.com. Cheap and good. I have the 8 output version. So I could go 3 way and subwoofer if I wanted too. Buy some class D amp at part express and you are ready to go. Don't forget the umik for measurements from minidsp.
Don't fix your mind on a 1" + 8", although one of the best speakers I heard falls in that category, the audionote. There are a lot of considerations on what makes good sound. There are tons of debate on woofer assisted widerange, high efficiency speakers, compression drivers etc.
Yes they all have compromises and there are sonic signatures and characteristics they don't appear as electrical data.
If looking for kit. A few comes to mind that I have heard and have been impressed with.
LX mini (needs super tweeter)
SB acoustics Ara, uluwatu and Rinjani (all have awesome bass and beautiful mids and highs, reasonably priced)
Oon
It seems that you prefer to mess around with things rather than get a good system and be done with it. I am in a similar position. I have more speaker drivers than I have cabinets!!
My thoughts are this. You need to dsp and active. A lot easier to experiment with crossover frequency response, slope, phase, delay etc.
Buy a minidsp at minidsp.com. Cheap and good. I have the 8 output version. So I could go 3 way and subwoofer if I wanted too. Buy some class D amp at part express and you are ready to go. Don't forget the umik for measurements from minidsp.
Don't fix your mind on a 1" + 8", although one of the best speakers I heard falls in that category, the audionote. There are a lot of considerations on what makes good sound. There are tons of debate on woofer assisted widerange, high efficiency speakers, compression drivers etc.
Yes they all have compromises and there are sonic signatures and characteristics they don't appear as electrical data.
If looking for kit. A few comes to mind that I have heard and have been impressed with.
LX mini (needs super tweeter)
SB acoustics Ara, uluwatu and Rinjani (all have awesome bass and beautiful mids and highs, reasonably priced)
Oon
Hello.
Please help. If I want to use these systems as a master without a subwoofer, is the volume of the 20L cabinet sufficient? Or is it better to increase the volume size a bit? If yes? About how much?
I would like to use in a room about 20 square meters
Thank you very much for your answer.
Greetings Pavel.
Please help. If I want to use these systems as a master without a subwoofer, is the volume of the 20L cabinet sufficient? Or is it better to increase the volume size a bit? If yes? About how much?
I would like to use in a room about 20 square meters
Thank you very much for your answer.
Greetings Pavel.
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