You will find a difficult time qualifying your products this way. Rather, put them out there for the dogs to chew on instead. Nothing but market speak is nothing but market speak, "RIPS" etc. Why bring it up at all if you can't detail its function?
In terms of the "lego" approach, you'll be more or less measuring and hearing the wiring. It seems more to be a carry over from the tube era that demonstrates little to no understanding of what we're dealing with here today, but it looks expensive doesn't it? Perhaps it's a clear case of product over perfection.
Hi all,
My product innovation does not matter, I can assure this.
I can not stand lies. correct publishing the test psu and then persuaded to buy.
which means it works udc400? Perhaps many do not have the right tool to see?
I do want the test?
ok, I have developed a switch psu identical to this (2005) for 2xudc400 for a company on commercial audio (no audiophile), look at that made!
I'm trying to figure out who has developed smps400 now.
Regards
My product innovation does not matter, I can assure this.
I can not stand lies. correct publishing the test psu and then persuaded to buy.
which means it works udc400? Perhaps many do not have the right tool to see?
I do want the test?
ok, I have developed a switch psu identical to this (2005) for 2xudc400 for a company on commercial audio (no audiophile), look at that made!
I'm trying to figure out who has developed smps400 now.
Regards
Attachments
Perhaps it's the language barrier, but I think that's far too easy an excuse in this case. Your posts consistently incite FUD, while feigning ignorance to the most obvious public factual information, like who designs their own SMPS.. some sweat shop in china perhaps you'd have us think?
I should note, you're the one that's new to the scene, not Hypex, who've already more than proven themselves. Their products are not above questioning of course and should not be, but have some cause other than to merely call into question, while introducing your own "preferences" as the first true solution, that you can't even discuss intelligently and use market babble in place of anything tangible. Why don't you tell us about this RIPS you've advertised several times for example, so we can see how it's been done before?
Why are you even asking for tests from people who can hardly plug a lego product line together properly, or what control IC they're not using. If there's a measurement you think is important enough to see, as a competitor you'd acquire the component and do the tests yourself, or you'd contact Hypex and ask them directly. It's just a little bit strange when you go so far as to keep insinuating they don't even design their own products. How new can you possibly be? Surely not that new.
Hi,
Meanwhile we decided(MDI) to make public our project DPS-400 for the DIY.
tomorrow will be placed in a thread, if someone wants, you have the PCB (blue, black, green). pwm module and transformer), but DIY is free to assemble.
this psu is on commerce from 2003 for commercial audio. it includes all vout filtered (LC) and very low EMI-IMD on amplifier.
P.S.
very reliable (never broken one)
Regards
Meanwhile we decided(MDI) to make public our project DPS-400 for the DIY.
tomorrow will be placed in a thread, if someone wants, you have the PCB (blue, black, green). pwm module and transformer), but DIY is free to assemble.
this psu is on commerce from 2003 for commercial audio. it includes all vout filtered (LC) and very low EMI-IMD on amplifier.
P.S.
very reliable (never broken one)
Regards
Hi,
about "RIPS" I've let it be enthusiasm (I am human).
I'm not forced to purchase this product. I think a real good product is going places alone.
I can not explain this new technology with simple words.
there is no business on audiophile sound that can justify the investment of this "RIPS.
is a program for the scientific presentation of 'RIPS' at universities.
very big companies are dealing with this technology.
This keeps everything locked audio products on the site.
perhaps it was better to advertise only new amplifiers without PSU on board (as do other companies).
respect to HYPEX in this forum have nothing to say.
Regards
about "RIPS" I've let it be enthusiasm (I am human).
I'm not forced to purchase this product. I think a real good product is going places alone.
I can not explain this new technology with simple words.
there is no business on audiophile sound that can justify the investment of this "RIPS.
is a program for the scientific presentation of 'RIPS' at universities.
very big companies are dealing with this technology.
This keeps everything locked audio products on the site.
perhaps it was better to advertise only new amplifiers without PSU on board (as do other companies).
respect to HYPEX in this forum have nothing to say.
Regards
With all the smps i have tested( only hypex smps400 and redrock smps6060) with the " ST" ucd versions there was noise(hiss) notable in the speakers. The conventional power supply do not have this noise. After using HXR regulators for the opampbuffer there was no noise. After bypassing the opampbuffer there was also no noise. ( used 86db speaker).
Do not ask for measurements. I do not like to compare 0,5 db of difference from spec's beyond the level of hearing. It is al about how it sounds.
There will be a complete test in April. Just follow the dutch link.
http://zelfbouwaudio.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10259
My first impression is that there is no difference in sound.
Hi
KOIFARM, apologize if I asked you the measurements.
the work that you have presented on this thread (you said is for testing and after probable comercial).
Now I realize that important not to feel (Hiss) to speakers.
any PSU is good, then just buy what's cheaper.
You have certainly done a good job, really say.
if HYPEX recommend using this psu is obvious that the measures made them fine.
Regards
KOIFARM, apologize if I asked you the measurements.
the work that you have presented on this thread (you said is for testing and after probable comercial).
Now I realize that important not to feel (Hiss) to speakers.
any PSU is good, then just buy what's cheaper.
You have certainly done a good job, really say.
if HYPEX recommend using this psu is obvious that the measures made them fine.
Regards
It's far more likely that you're simply incapable of making the measurements. There is no problem at all in people asking for them and they should not be made to apologies for it. I think the people who produce your parts thankfully do believe in measurements themselves.
It has already been asserted that you're most likely listening to your wiring. The ills of a conventional supply could be less obviously suspectible to such wiring than would a SMPS, as would a conventional amplifier versus most class d amplifiers. That doesn't however mean the ills of the SMPS could not be made benign, as with proper methods of implementation, it may even excel. You'll never know with that kind of setup.
That HXR regulators managed to attenuate the noise and that a conventional supply had less noise confirms the existence of noise in your particular use of the SMPS, but not the cause, or the best solution for it. Bypassing "buffers", however, is something different, and leads into your usual sales pitch establishing a need for a tube based alternative that you offer. You're well aware it is in fact a gain stage.
Really the only way such an implementation could be of any use is if you put them all inside another shielding enclosure, and it could still be done better. It's only "all" about the sound once the very basics have been fully addressed and we can do no more to improve upon it technically. Where is the logic in continuing to use a SMPS if you'd concluded it has noise in relation to a conventional supply? Did the lego approach resolve the noise, or make it worse? Had you cared to check? Was the product format already decided upon because people are taught by stereophile that "seperates" are "high end", and you could ask more money for it than it's worth?
It seems to me were it truly done for testing purposes, your own conclusions as presented here should have led you down an alternate route of some sort. Why didn't it then?
AP2, are you implying people here aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate this high tech university-exciting RIPS technology? That's probably true. If it is so popular amongst those learned ones though, it seems reasonable to think it is not top secret, and that papers on it of a scientific and engineering nature would be readily available by and for these people. Exactly who do simple words fail here? Draw me a picture, and colour it nice so that I may better understand.
I sincerely wish you the best of chance in your tireless quest to discover the true creator of Hypex products, but you really didn't look very hard. Someone with your apparent background and credentials would have better research skills.
Cheerio
HI,All
To TicksNleeches.
seems you're against me, but this is only appearance.
I really like me too, look on the right.
I can not stand the falseness of some companies.
I too have developed a simple psu for audio (DPS-400), but taking precautions to minimize interference on the amplifier, has cost more than the PSU itself (why?, hypex conducted a psu with no filters and no precautions to reduce the noise also open chip oscillator creates a beat).
when you put good pictures with professionals assembly, the message being sent is clear. (then this is very good product). but this is not the reality.
my earlier intervention is justified becouse even a simple psu took months of work and lots of money spent.
This is the real reason of my speech, not the publicity of my PSU.
Regards
To TicksNleeches.
seems you're against me, but this is only appearance.
I really like me too, look on the right.
I can not stand the falseness of some companies.
I too have developed a simple psu for audio (DPS-400), but taking precautions to minimize interference on the amplifier, has cost more than the PSU itself (why?, hypex conducted a psu with no filters and no precautions to reduce the noise also open chip oscillator creates a beat).
when you put good pictures with professionals assembly, the message being sent is clear. (then this is very good product). but this is not the reality.
my earlier intervention is justified becouse even a simple psu took months of work and lots of money spent.
This is the real reason of my speech, not the publicity of my PSU.
Regards
To Jan-Peter.
discussion is focused on your SMPS400.
this psu does not have any advice on technical and appropriate to declare (for audio).
IMD introduced through vcc high, very high EMI (radiated and conduction).
no shielding on oscillator stage.
Why? You do see that it is good for audio?
if you make publicity out of forums, ok I can not say anything, but if you do see on the forum, then I can defend those who do not have the appropriate tools to do tests on your product.
not you agree?
Regards
discussion is focused on your SMPS400.
this psu does not have any advice on technical and appropriate to declare (for audio).
IMD introduced through vcc high, very high EMI (radiated and conduction).
no shielding on oscillator stage.
Why? You do see that it is good for audio?
if you make publicity out of forums, ok I can not say anything, but if you do see on the forum, then I can defend those who do not have the appropriate tools to do tests on your product.
not you agree?
Regards
Dear TicksNLeeches,
It is clear you can not or have not read the dutch link. In this link is explained why we build the LEGO approach.
In short, there are 2 major discussions in UCD land. What is the difference in sound between a conventional or SMPS powersupply and second what is the difference in sound between several inputbuffer configurations. It is not about which is the best. Sound is personal so there will be no best.
The best thing to test that is to change only the things you like to test, so we like the LEGO approach. Now we can change only the power supply or only the inputbuffer.
In the final testresults there will be measurements and the findings of a lot of people who have taken the time to listen to the several configurations. I personal have stoped taken great value on measurements agains the sound i like. I personal prever my tube amplifier above any other amplifier i heard until yet.
And about your "listen to the cables" story, B*****it!. No discussion about cables. With this high signal levels and voltages a normal configurated cable and connection do not have any influence on the sound, point!.
Once again, this is my opinion and in the test all the cables stay the same.
We listen only to differences and not what is better.
Ronny
It is clear you can not or have not read the dutch link. In this link is explained why we build the LEGO approach.
In short, there are 2 major discussions in UCD land. What is the difference in sound between a conventional or SMPS powersupply and second what is the difference in sound between several inputbuffer configurations. It is not about which is the best. Sound is personal so there will be no best.
The best thing to test that is to change only the things you like to test, so we like the LEGO approach. Now we can change only the power supply or only the inputbuffer.
In the final testresults there will be measurements and the findings of a lot of people who have taken the time to listen to the several configurations. I personal have stoped taken great value on measurements agains the sound i like. I personal prever my tube amplifier above any other amplifier i heard until yet.
And about your "listen to the cables" story, B*****it!. No discussion about cables. With this high signal levels and voltages a normal configurated cable and connection do not have any influence on the sound, point!.
Once again, this is my opinion and in the test all the cables stay the same.
We listen only to differences and not what is better.
Ronny
To Jan-Peter.
How can you judge that EMI is very high? Did you measured this....?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I answered your question.
I think you have to spend more money on the psu and on engineer.
not simple to develop and sell Chinese psu (for audio)
your amps are very good, need a good PSU.
Regards
How can you judge that EMI is very high? Did you measured this....?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I answered your question.
I think you have to spend more money on the psu and on engineer.
not simple to develop and sell Chinese psu (for audio)
your amps are very good, need a good PSU.
Regards
You don't know where you are talking about. And I cannot accept you false accuse us for developing or selling Chinese PSU, quality. The SMPS line we are selling are developed by our Hypex engineers and are meeting the EMI standards with a serious margin.
If you think your are manufacturing better products, don't hide yourselves but show us who you are and with which company you are related. All Hypex engineers are posting with their own name, they don't hide themselves....
-----------------------------------
I'm hiding?
my real name and profile is public on this forum.
MDI is laboratory R & D, (Real R & D) and development for many companies.
what? problem.
I'm not accusing anyone. SMPS400 I responded to your post on this thread.
You will want to hide behind (EMI is normal), including lamps is (Normal certification).
we know that for this amplifier is not sufficient.
looks good your SMPS400 instead of attacking me.
Ok..., it's difficult to discuss in this way. It would help a lot if you could communicate better English....
Don't worry about the sonic performance of our SMPS400 in combination with our UcD amps. We, and our customers, are very happy with the performance of the SMPS400.
A small tip for a good sounding SMPS for Class D..., keep the EMI as small as possible. A few dB below official standard is NOT enough for an audiophile
performance....
If you dont like them, no problem you have your own solution. So you do not have to buy these.
The purpose of your approach has already been fully explained here, to sell your products. I really don't care what these people think, and since sound is so subjective, tell me then, why in the hell I should? See, anyone testing these types of products, in that type of manner, is not worth paying attention to. It's just a boat show, after all.
I understand, and even agree with you about measurements. They are not all telling, but you know, you only see where you decide to point your eyes anyway. That's to say, people tend to see exactly what they want to see, no more and no less. Measure the voltage sweep on your ground lead from the amp ground plane to that of the SMPS for a good laugh. Do you think that's the type of effect you won't end up hearing? I have news for you ..
Do not dictate to me what I'll discuss. That's a sure shipwreck. You conveniently completely miss the point about the cables. I am not arguing for one type over another, not what cable gets used, but rather the way you use them. I don't think it can be any more clear, and it didn't start off as vague either. That the wiring stays the same is exactly the point! You're looking for differences that you'll ultimately be judging another's product by, supposedly conclusively. All the while, your self imposed bottlneck remains a constant. What then do you think you'll be judging most?
Engineering isn't about subjective feelings, I'm afraid that won't get you off so easily. The answer between SMPS versus a conventional supply, simply put, none at all, not if you do it right. I mean, if you really cared what the ultimate solution sounded like, then we'd be looking at a stack of car batteries, wouldn't we. I'm not at all buying this product test bed thing, it's a showcase and nothing more. This kind of gimmick method could have been gotten away with twenty years ago, with twenty year ago technology, but you're playing with some complex modern toys here in some complex modern days, and so I don't mind saying since you're selling it, at least make the slightest effort, and pick yourself up a book on basic signal integrity. The best answer to this dilemma remains none of the above as it stands. AP2, you sure know a lot about this supply all of a sudden, having measured it and everything, when two days ago you were shocked to see a picture of it and had never heard of it before. If you really think a good product will rise to the top all by itself, I'm sorry to see you haven't more faith in your own products than that. What, is it the cost of having all the "only supply designed for audio" pamphlets revised?
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