The relay/resistor type based 128 steps volume controller from ebay L168-45 (seller sep_store) arrived yesterday from China. Standard is 50 kOhm version, but 10 kOhm, which I ordered, is available as special order during the order process. Sales price was about EUR 65 - 70 including an all metall IR remote controller. Delivery took about 3 weeks.
It is a kit meaning all soldering has to be done by the buyer including SMD chips and some parts (s. pictures). The remaining parts (majority) are through-hole. The two PCBs may be split along existing pre-drilled lines into several sections (max 5) as needed, correspsonding male headers included. The PCBs are imprinted with the part identifiers. Interconnects between the PCBs are usually included, but where missing in my delivery and had to be sent afterwards in a second package. I finished the assembly yesterday afternoon. Some SMD soldering knowledge etc. and a magnifying glass / light does help for sure.
Assembly instructions are (almost) non-existent except for a list of resistors (30 resistors for divider) and some mounting exceptions, but photos and the PCB markings will help a lot if some basic knowledge and experience at the users site is available.
The analog part, which consists of 7 relays and metal film resistors, connects into the feed back path of the BPBP instead of the linear pot and is purely passive.
The kit contains additionally a relay based input section (encoder activated, 4 relays) for 4 RCA (non-symmetrical) inputs. Functions available on the front (two encoders): rotary input selection and volume control in 0.5 db steps. Two numerical 3-digit LED displays inform about the volume and input selection. Push action activates either "Standby" and/or "Mute" funtions. The display seems to be dimmable by the included remote controller. The kit expects a 12VAC power supply (or ~15VDC optionally) and has the usual 7812/1A and 7805/1A linear regulators onboard for providing needed voltages and current.
=> Unfortunately diyaudio.com denied the upload (again) of any photos due to "missing security token" whatever that means.
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Continued...
Digital and analog sections and signal paths are separated completely, even the GNDs are separate. One might therefore install compatible switched +12VDC, + 5VDC regulators (i.e. Recom or Traco etc.) as an alternative, if needed, without fearing to introduce additional noise into the analog path (my opinion) if proper shielding and cable routing practices are followed.
Note: Because of the missing cables I haven't been able to test the functionality of the volume controller yet.
The Specs.txt file provides some of the dimensions from the ebay offer.
This time I seem to have managed to upload photos (I missed the size specification beforehand, because it was not visible in the window which openend up for uploads).
I hope it is OK to have it placed here, otherwise move it to the corresponding thread in the forum...
Digital and analog sections and signal paths are separated completely, even the GNDs are separate. One might therefore install compatible switched +12VDC, + 5VDC regulators (i.e. Recom or Traco etc.) as an alternative, if needed, without fearing to introduce additional noise into the analog path (my opinion) if proper shielding and cable routing practices are followed.
Note: Because of the missing cables I haven't been able to test the functionality of the volume controller yet.
The Specs.txt file provides some of the dimensions from the ebay offer.
This time I seem to have managed to upload photos (I missed the size specification beforehand, because it was not visible in the window which openend up for uploads).
I hope it is OK to have it placed here, otherwise move it to the corresponding thread in the forum...
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Continued...
No schematics or additional assembly and / or usage instructions are available according to the seller, but he seems to be willing to help, if the need arises.
An assembled standanlone version L169-71 (including a silver anodized case) is available too (~ EUR 130 ?) but its I/Os are unbalanced (RCA/cinch).
Still waiting for that second unit, a Hans Pollak (VoICB) and "Maya" based volume controller "kit", which comes partly assembled (controller only, VoICB PCB needs parts and assembly) but is a lot more expensive: appr. EUR 180 for the "kit" (March 31st sales, normal pricing is even higher) including VAT and shipping cost from Romania (EU) plus about EUR 62 for the VoICB parts (mouser). Soldering etc, not counted...
No schematics or additional assembly and / or usage instructions are available according to the seller, but he seems to be willing to help, if the need arises.
An assembled standanlone version L169-71 (including a silver anodized case) is available too (~ EUR 130 ?) but its I/Os are unbalanced (RCA/cinch).
Still waiting for that second unit, a Hans Pollak (VoICB) and "Maya" based volume controller "kit", which comes partly assembled (controller only, VoICB PCB needs parts and assembly) but is a lot more expensive: appr. EUR 180 for the "kit" (March 31st sales, normal pricing is even higher) including VAT and shipping cost from Romania (EU) plus about EUR 62 for the VoICB parts (mouser). Soldering etc, not counted...
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After having a closer look at the relay board layout it seems I would need the (available) balanced version of that volume controller (+18 GBP), but the Chinese seller (sep_store) does't seem to respond to my corresponding inquiries anymore. Note: Just got a message, that he will respond lateron, because his "knowledgeable" colleagues are on a holiday right now.
The balanced version is needed in my opinion, not because the BPBP is a balanced pre amp design, but to have the resistor ladders for each channel completely separated. Judging by some photos I found on the internet it just doubles the number of relay boards used, which are connected to the controller. Note: The (stereo) relay board uses a common GND for the analog path of left and right channel, which - in my opinion - makes this necessary. If you take the linear pot of the original design, it needs three isolated connections per channel, which the unbalanced stereo version does not offer.
The balanced version is needed in my opinion, not because the BPBP is a balanced pre amp design, but to have the resistor ladders for each channel completely separated. Judging by some photos I found on the internet it just doubles the number of relay boards used, which are connected to the controller. Note: The (stereo) relay board uses a common GND for the analog path of left and right channel, which - in my opinion - makes this necessary. If you take the linear pot of the original design, it needs three isolated connections per channel, which the unbalanced stereo version does not offer.
The "Maya" controller package (from vicol-audio) with the "VoICB for BPBP" PCB (design Hans Polak) arrived yesterday. Enclosed you will find some photos I took this morning from the delivery. The unpopulated small PCB (the parts have to be ordered elsewhere) shown is the VoICB. Unfortunately that PCB doesn't seem to be of the same "quality" as the Maya boards, the edges of the PCB are rather rough and the print is not as good as on the the Maya boards (readability not as good, lines are rather "thick", see photos). No connection cables are included for the hook up of the VoICB. Combined costs were EUR 130 + EUR 22 shipping (EU) + 19%VAT = ~ EUR 180 (special sales price) for the set consisting of the controller + addons shown plus the VoICB PCB. The included addons are a soft-start module, an encoder for the volume, a BlueTooth module for remote control, two switches on a separate board plus the already mounted OLED display. The parts needed for the VoICB (BOM) will be an additional ~ EUR 62 (mouser). Delivered from Romania within appr. a week in a medium sized pouch containing a small box with the assembled Maya controller as shown and the VoICB PCB wrapped into some foil.
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No documentation came with it (Maya), so you have to refer to that volume controller thread (Hans Polak) here in diyaudio.com, which discusses the VoICB. For everything else (Maya) you probably have to go over to the web site of Vicol-Audio vicol audio : MAYA - your ultimate volume-controller and download what is provided there. Another alternative thread discussing that controller is here on diyaudio.com too.
Sorry, if that is considered OT here...
Sorry, if that is considered OT here...
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Plastic wrap you probably mean, not foil (foil implies aluminium or some other metal foil).
The VolCB were made as a favour for the DIYAudio.com community from Hans' design and done as cheap as could be to cut our costs on the initial run. So I personally appreciated that aspect the first time around - unpopulated PCBs that do the job for as cheap as possible. The Hans' input add-on PCBs were also made at the same time at a cheap price.
In other words, the Hans' boards have nothing to do with Vicol Audio other than Vicol arranged the printing so they could all be shipped with the Maya and so save us all extra shipping costs and someone else the extra shipping logistics and money collecting.
The VolCB were made as a favour for the DIYAudio.com community from Hans' design and done as cheap as could be to cut our costs on the initial run. So I personally appreciated that aspect the first time around - unpopulated PCBs that do the job for as cheap as possible. The Hans' input add-on PCBs were also made at the same time at a cheap price.
In other words, the Hans' boards have nothing to do with Vicol Audio other than Vicol arranged the printing so they could all be shipped with the Maya and so save us all extra shipping costs and someone else the extra shipping logistics and money collecting.
Seem to have read somewhere, that at one volume position a slight pop might be audible.
I am not sure about that slight "pop" mentioned, read it somehwere, but can't remember where. I guess, he talked about the associated electrical switching noise of all relays switching at once and the "dead" time used to supress it?
Those relays have slight tolerances in activation and fall back times, which might be responsible for this.
I guess, the "VoICB" PCB has been (physically) done / ordered by Vicol-Audio ? Just by the looks and touch it felt somewhat "cheaper" than what I am used to. Photos don't transport that feeling.
Just wondering, why you are defending / criticising whatever I seem to observe
I read those threads myself and know the "history" of those...
As long as it does what it should do.
Those relays have slight tolerances in activation and fall back times, which might be responsible for this.
I guess, the "VoICB" PCB has been (physically) done / ordered by Vicol-Audio ? Just by the looks and touch it felt somewhat "cheaper" than what I am used to. Photos don't transport that feeling.
Just wondering, why you are defending / criticising whatever I seem to observe
I read those threads myself and know the "history" of those...
As long as it does what it should do.
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Just to make it clear: I admire Hans Polak for the design of that VoICB and how he crammed that much functionality onto such a small PCB. Unfortunately he doesn't provide the boards himself....
Still would add some "wishes" of my own afte having a closer look: the placement of the connector "pins" to the BPBP is somehow unfortunate, because the board has to rise quite high this way to get above the Hypex regulators, which are blocking right now. If having moved that position somehow more to the left would have been an option the VoICB would fit quite snuggly into the remaining place.
There is more space to the right of that connection too to add another relay / resistor "pair" to increase the step resolution to 0.5 db and support the board additionally at that toggle switch position for the inputs.
Probably would have to move this post to the Hans Polak volume controller thread...
Still would add some "wishes" of my own afte having a closer look: the placement of the connector "pins" to the BPBP is somehow unfortunate, because the board has to rise quite high this way to get above the Hypex regulators, which are blocking right now. If having moved that position somehow more to the left would have been an option the VoICB would fit quite snuggly into the remaining place.
There is more space to the right of that connection too to add another relay / resistor "pair" to increase the step resolution to 0.5 db and support the board additionally at that toggle switch position for the inputs.
Probably would have to move this post to the Hans Polak volume controller thread...
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I guess, the "VoICB" PCB has been (physically) done / ordered by Vicol-Audio ? Just by the looks and touch it felt somewhat "cheaper" than what I am used to. Photos don't transport that feeling.
Just wondering, why you are defending / criticising whatever I seem to observe
I read those threads myself and know the "history" of those...
As long as it does what it should do.
I just wanted to give a more balanced view whereas your tone appeared to be implying that there was something wrong and the fault of Vicol Audio whereas it appears to be more a mis-understanding or wrongful expectation of your own.
I was perfectly happy with the VolCB boards and happy that the costs were kept low and they are of a quality I was expecting for the price. Not so easy to split when ordering multiples (I got five) though I must admit but doing so was no problem.
OT
@NATDBERG
I don't know about your expectations but EUR 180 (set "Maya for BPBP" special sales price, EUR 228 normal price) + EUR 62 still to spent (parts VoICB) just for that volume controller is not "cheap" in my opinion and justifyes critical inspectation, doesn't it ?
I ordered the Maya controller just for that volume control part (BPBP) designed by Hans Polak (VoICB). Thus the quality of that VoICB PCB, whoever is responsible for making it, is crucial to my expectations.
Having designed and ordered several PCBs for projects of my own already in the past, I would consider the quality of the VoICB PCB as delivered just "mediocre" at best.
Eurocircuits, OSH Park and DirtyPCBs were those manufacturers I have experiences with. Even DirtyPCBS as the cheapest of those (10/11 pcs up to 10 x 10 cm size for USD 25 now USD ~28 including shipment etc) were - at least in my opinion - of better PCB and print quality. Never had a board with such rough edges and this print quality in my hands before like that VoICB PCB I got. I don't know about yours though.
Sorry, if that has hurt your feelings, but it is what it is. I don't have any emotional connections with those sellers I buy from and their products, thus I look at the goods and their related quality rather unemotional but critical. And my expectations are certainly dictated by the price too, especially if it is supposed to be DIY...
/OT
@NATDBERG
I don't know about your expectations but EUR 180 (set "Maya for BPBP" special sales price, EUR 228 normal price) + EUR 62 still to spent (parts VoICB) just for that volume controller is not "cheap" in my opinion and justifyes critical inspectation, doesn't it ?
I ordered the Maya controller just for that volume control part (BPBP) designed by Hans Polak (VoICB). Thus the quality of that VoICB PCB, whoever is responsible for making it, is crucial to my expectations.
Having designed and ordered several PCBs for projects of my own already in the past, I would consider the quality of the VoICB PCB as delivered just "mediocre" at best.
Eurocircuits, OSH Park and DirtyPCBs were those manufacturers I have experiences with. Even DirtyPCBS as the cheapest of those (10/11 pcs up to 10 x 10 cm size for USD 25 now USD ~28 including shipment etc) were - at least in my opinion - of better PCB and print quality. Never had a board with such rough edges and this print quality in my hands before like that VoICB PCB I got. I don't know about yours though.
Sorry, if that has hurt your feelings, but it is what it is. I don't have any emotional connections with those sellers I buy from and their products, thus I look at the goods and their related quality rather unemotional but critical. And my expectations are certainly dictated by the price too, especially if it is supposed to be DIY...
/OT
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Anyone have an idea how to mount the VoICB board from Hans P. ?
It doesn't have mounting holes, thus chassis mounting seems not to be possible.
Because of those Hypex regulators "overlapping" on the left using dual row "very long" pinstrip headers (>30 mm, dual insulator) soldered in place of the 10 kOhm pot, as suggested elsewhere, might be possible, but will restrict access to those BPBP components directly underneath it, which I don't like. Note: The VoICB is then sitting "on top" of the BPBP. Otherwise one has to unsolder the VoICB before getting at them. Height might be problematic too...
Any 90° mounting done without those Hypex regulators getting into its way either ? This way the VoICB would sit right in front of the BPBP (vertical orientation) centered in front of the 10 K pot location.
What available hardware / connectors did you use for this ?
I tried a 90° dual row pinstrip header (pot location) for this already but it doesn't fit (to short).
Any pictures available if done ?
It doesn't have mounting holes, thus chassis mounting seems not to be possible.
Because of those Hypex regulators "overlapping" on the left using dual row "very long" pinstrip headers (>30 mm, dual insulator) soldered in place of the 10 kOhm pot, as suggested elsewhere, might be possible, but will restrict access to those BPBP components directly underneath it, which I don't like. Note: The VoICB is then sitting "on top" of the BPBP. Otherwise one has to unsolder the VoICB before getting at them. Height might be problematic too...
Any 90° mounting done without those Hypex regulators getting into its way either ? This way the VoICB would sit right in front of the BPBP (vertical orientation) centered in front of the 10 K pot location.
What available hardware / connectors did you use for this ?
I tried a 90° dual row pinstrip header (pot location) for this already but it doesn't fit (to short).
Any pictures available if done ?
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