jimbo1968 said:
maybe thay do. if its anything like the patek it will have a Perforated Aluminum top.
http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm
This sounds like really sound explanation to me. But in this case we would have different best heatsink for each volume level also.
Solution could be using thermistor to measure chip or heatsink temperature and use active heating/cooling to adjust that temperature. Has anyone tried this or interested enough to try? This kind of equipment would give nice possibility to compare same chip in different temperatures.
Eva said:What a tremendous ability humans have to waste prime materials
It's really discouraging to see people building randomly and being proud of it.
I guess it depends on your approach to the hobby and the reasons for doing it.
As a sculptor I might just use a material because I like it and for no other logical reason.
Most things people want , have or desire are not necessities of life.
If anything hobbyists tend to recycle thrown out material or products more so than 'mere' consumers.
I would guess the best way to be kind to the earths resources
would be to cull most of the earths human population and have
the remainder return to living in the proverbial mud huts.
That said, I do understand what you are getting at as there is a
lot of wasteful consumption of finite resources happening on this
planet.
Mark
jimbo1968 said:
Temperature would be the only logical guess as to how a heat sink (material) could affect quality of sound. However, if that is the case, there would be no 'best' heat sink material for sound, rather it would be any heat sink that could maintain the chip at the optimal temperature for best sound quality. But considering that quality of sound is person dependent, this could be a never ending and is already a pointless debate.
It seems funny (in a sad way) that the bronze heat sink has generated more buzz than the amp. It seems clear that advertising the superior sonic capabilities of a heat sink is a poor marketing idea for amplifiers.
Gio.
A lot of people are sceptical about the properties of certain materials when relating to sound. And I don't blame them. I will not say anything for or against that kind of approach because I simply have not studied it.
But let's put it this way. Each metal does have unique damping characteristics. This is scientifically accepted no?
The type of insulation used for a conductor of electricity also has an influence on the sound. (Accepted by I suppose a large part of the audiophile community. This is I suppose not scientifically "provable" )
The type of metal used as a conductor also has an influence on sound. (Even when taking capacitance,resistance and inductance into consideration) (This once again is only accepted by a part of the audiophile community) But once again this cannot be proven by science I believe.
Which brings me to my point.
There are 2 stances to be taken IMO. Either these "phenomenon" don't exists. Or we don't know what to measure or can't measure them.
Either science is not advanced enough to explain the influence of natural materials near an electric/magnetic field or conductor. Or materials near a conductor or electric/magnetic field simply don't have an influence on sound. I believe that either could be the case. But there is simply no way I would dismiss either of the 2
"camps". Because I accept that there might be more to it than we know at the moment.
But let's put it this way. Each metal does have unique damping characteristics. This is scientifically accepted no?
The type of insulation used for a conductor of electricity also has an influence on the sound. (Accepted by I suppose a large part of the audiophile community. This is I suppose not scientifically "provable" )
The type of metal used as a conductor also has an influence on sound. (Even when taking capacitance,resistance and inductance into consideration) (This once again is only accepted by a part of the audiophile community) But once again this cannot be proven by science I believe.
Which brings me to my point.
There are 2 stances to be taken IMO. Either these "phenomenon" don't exists. Or we don't know what to measure or can't measure them.
Either science is not advanced enough to explain the influence of natural materials near an electric/magnetic field or conductor. Or materials near a conductor or electric/magnetic field simply don't have an influence on sound. I believe that either could be the case. But there is simply no way I would dismiss either of the 2
"camps". Because I accept that there might be more to it than we know at the moment.
dfdye said:what brass alloy are you using for the heatsink? Also, what thermal paste or pads are you using? (I think those look like silicon pads, but I wanted to ask.)
I must admit that I am not sold on the "sound of heatsinks," but whether it sounds any different or not, it definitely looks great! So I figured I would try and see for myself how it works/sounds since I have a stash of brass sitting around.
The alloys I'm using are the ones available from Metal Supermarkets, there is not much choice there and there is only one available for brass and few for bronze. I used the softer alloy for bronze, but don't know what specific type it is.
Thermal paste is nothing special, Thermalcote from Thermalloy. I'm not using any pads under the chips, as two years ago I switched to insulated package. I noticed it sounded better than non insulated with pads. At that time I was using indeed aluminum and beryllium oxide pads with compound.
jimbo1968 said:
Actually, it seems to me that the chip sounds better with lower temperatures.
GG said:
I don't think it is related to temperature, as I mentioned already, when the heatsink gets really hot the amp does not sound better than when it's cold.
There were many previous discussions on that forum with regards to material properties and their influence on the sound, here's one: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11742&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1 BTW, I'm presently using air suspension table under my CD transport that was mentioned in a linked thread.
As Upupa touched already the subject of sound of Maple, I may add, that at one time I was experimenting with different pieces of wood under the footing of the amp (cones). Each wood was affecting sound signature slightly, to the point that one could tune it in a similar way it's done with interconnects. Replacing wood with metal pieces or polycarbonate brought even bigger changes to the sound.
IIRC, there is at least one high end manufacturer that supports using myrtle blocks as footing for the equipment.
It's indeed peculiar that the main focus of disussion goes to the heatsink material, the element of design that actually has least importance here. I just learned I need to be more carefull with wording next time and don't mentione everything. One never knows what crowd he will be dealing with
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Basic Thermal Management of Power Semiconductors
Hi, it would do no harm to read this:
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/AN1083-D.PDF
Basic Thermal Management of Power Semiconductors
Most is said already in the 1st paragraph!
Hi, it would do no harm to read this:
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/AN1083-D.PDF
Basic Thermal Management of Power Semiconductors
Most is said already in the 1st paragraph!
Peter Daniel said:
It's indeed peculiar that the main focus of disussion goes to the heatsink material, the element of design that actually has least importance here. I just learned I need to be more carefull with wording next time and don't mentione everything. One never knows what crowd he will be dealing with
Agreed. Peculiar focus and no agrument that people are strange.
BTW - your chassis skills are exceptional. If mine were anywhere close to as good as yours, I would have to buy new furniture so my amps would not stick out. Keep up the good work.
Gio.
As I see in the end, many people think, that amp is " musical instrument ", which can be tuneable like guitar by various exotic material... By these experiments they have feeling like Stradivari... They know nothing about physic, most important is to think up theory for reasoning.... This prism with holes have interesting design, but as heatsink is it for nothing, 'cos for " vent stack " have it too small diametres and is free, which material is used.....
They know nothing about physic, most important is to think up theory for reasoning.... This prism with holes have interesting design, but as heatsink is it for nothing, 'cos for " vent stack " have it too small diametres and is free, which material is used.....
Upupa Epops said:As I see in the end, many people think, that amp is " musical instrument ", which can be tuneable like guitar by various exotic material... By these experiments they have feeling like Stradivari...
You touched the subject of PCBs as well, and now the exotic materials. From our previous conversations, I got impression that you kept Madrigal in the realm of sound engineering practises and no gimmicks. Here's what they say about exotic materials and tuning an electronic device in a way similar to musical instrument:
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