And that can be reversed and applied to the other people.
So.....what point are you trying to make?
Oh! and if you think a blind test is perfect, think again.....it's very different as you are performing under testing conditions and that has an effect on the test and outcome.
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SY, since you are a moderator do you think it is possible to establish a thread for "believers only" for the propose of a little personality-free posts just to clear away the clutter? Would a clear definition of the purpose of the thread and finding a neutral overseer be within the forum rules? I'm not in favor of any form of censorship, but it would be fantastic to have a place where possibilities could be presented and discussed, and not have to be defended continually.
Does the forum have any rules or methods to promote such a less encumbered format?
Does the forum have any rules or methods to promote such a less encumbered format?
Most audio websites seem to be dominated by 'believers'. A few have areas reserved for 'engineers'. One of the good things about DIYaudio is that it does not have this demarcation, so we are all expected to be able to cope with and benefit from a reasonable challenge to our assumptions. Sometimes we even change our minds, when sufficient evidence is presented. The danger of little huddles on either side is that prejudices get strengthened instead of being challenged, so 'the other lot' are more likely to be caricatured and misrepresented.
No, censorship of technical discussion is outside the spirit and purpose of this forum. There are many places where logic and evidence are not allowed and fantasy runs free. There are other places where no speculation may be made without hard evidence. diyAudio is neither, and if you aren't comfortable having your ideas challenged, this is probably not the right venue for you.
I'm perhaps missing the places where that was actually determined as opposed to merely asserted. Could you give me a link? I'd be fascinated if someone has actually demonstrated the ability to hear capacitor break-in.
Hi Tony,
just to understand...
If I say:
In my experience Silmic II caps stabilize their sound after circa 40 hours.
I'm reporting my (unscientifc) personal experience and I don't pretend it's an absolute truth (evidence), I'm just sharing it with others.
If taken as such (unverified anectdotal data) I can't see any serious harm in it, isn't it?
Assume it's just a placebo effect, it still works for some...
The important thing is to be aware of it.
Maybe we could just add a disclaimer:
Unverified anectdotal data
I'm saying just that, some can hear a very noticeable difference and some can't and many are in between the two extremes.
Some things can't be measured at this point and time, but in the future maybe some of these things will be able to be proven with so called hard evidence and old ideas (so called facts) will be pushed aside, that's how we advance in our understanding of the world around us
But for now, these debates will continue.
You are asserting that some can. This is not proof they can, and I'd be prepared to put pretty good money (well, NZD, the pesos of the Pacific, but still) on odds that your assertion is based on THEIR assertion.
There is something that CAN be measured, tomorrow. And that is the REAL perception levels of those claiming to be able to hear differences. A very simple DBT over, say, 50 golden ears would give statistics that would indicate whether its worth looking further into elelectro-acoustic causes, or whether psycho-acoustic would be a more beneficial trail to follow.
Did you already read ITU recomendations developed for small audio differences DBTs?
After reading that paper I think that most audio related DBTs put too much stress on partecipants leading to inconclusive results.
Just my humble opinion.
No, but I have now
Based on what?
This is of course the standard response from those claiming ability in any superhuman field including physical strength, psychic capabilities, and perception of audible differences supposedly arising from immeasurably tiny electrical effects. In effect, they claim stage fright.
Of course, this IS possible. But the same people tend to be adamant in every other venue, some to the point of belligerence. It seems then that there is a possible correlation between being a highly strung prima donna and having golden ears. This could well be another area worth investigating.
Hi John,
High voltage and heat are exactly the recommended treatment for leakage current, given in the Sanyo OS-CON Technical Book.
The picture shows the relationship of leakage current settling-time with temperature (full rated voltage applied). Still falling, even after 100 hours at room temperature.
More interestingly, the book advises that the high starting-value of leakage shown here may be provoked simply by (correctly-controlled) soldering, as well as temperature cycling, or higher temperatures (even with no load).
Soldering a capacitor of this kind into a circuit is enough to bring on a high leakage current, which remains, or worsens, while the amp is en route to the listener - unless you can treat it to a luxury heat bath of 60-70 deg. C for a couple of hours.
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