Thanks, I've been working on it. I turned data compression off and I think I'm getting better results now. I'm leaving the timestep at '100n' in the .tran command, changing the 'n' to 'u' for quick processing, then back to 'n' for more accurate results. I'll go to '10n' for the very best accuracy, but that takes a few minutes to process, so I only use that for getting 'serious' results.
FWIW, reducing the timestep to shorter than 1uS doesn't change my THD results very much. Its most noticeable result is that it makes the FFT graphs look a whole lot better.
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FFT graphs in LTSpice can be a bit tricky to get right. I don't claim to have all the answers, but data compression and coarse time steps I know will be a problem. Here's a link to more info, from folks who have spent more time worrying about it than I have. The time step may need to be a specific value to get the best FFT plot.
Distortion measurements with LTSPICE - Audio PerfectionAudio Perfection
Distortion measurements with LTSPICE - Audio PerfectionAudio Perfection
I've built several BHL JFET Phono/RIAA Preamplifier kits (Hiraga based design) and they sound great! Very lush, spacious, organic sound. Perhaps not the most analytical (if you're worried about that).
I use it either in combination with the PrePre (Hiraga based design from BHL or diyaudioworld), Denon AU-S1 step up or Sony HA-55 head amp to drive different cartridges (Denon DL-S1, Denon DL 102, Denon DL-A100, Sony XL55ProII, Empire MC1000, Audio Technica 30E, Nagaoka M110 to name a few). It's a proven design used by many MC1 / Hiraga MC Preamplifier (also available as a kit from Diy-Audio-World Onlineshop).
What I like is the quality board and components. In my experience it sounds best with Ni-MH 2000mAh AA batteries. The BHL power supply, though very stable, doesn't have enough headroom in this application (sounds great in combination with buffer).
If you can be bothered with charging/replacing batteries it's a great buy in my opinion.
I use it either in combination with the PrePre (Hiraga based design from BHL or diyaudioworld), Denon AU-S1 step up or Sony HA-55 head amp to drive different cartridges (Denon DL-S1, Denon DL 102, Denon DL-A100, Sony XL55ProII, Empire MC1000, Audio Technica 30E, Nagaoka M110 to name a few). It's a proven design used by many MC1 / Hiraga MC Preamplifier (also available as a kit from Diy-Audio-World Onlineshop).
What I like is the quality board and components. In my experience it sounds best with Ni-MH 2000mAh AA batteries. The BHL power supply, though very stable, doesn't have enough headroom in this application (sounds great in combination with buffer).
If you can be bothered with charging/replacing batteries it's a great buy in my opinion.
Thanks for that link. Good stuff. That helped me zero in on a process for getting repeatable, believable-looking results. I think that should wrap up the LTspice drift in this thread. My results do stand, though. Modeled in LTspice, the BHL phono preamp in original form has fairly high THD. It's not difficult to get similar linearity from typical vacuum tubes like a couple of 12AX7's and a 12AT7. Just sayin'...
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I've been using a BHL phono for a long time now, after it ousted my previous Clearaudio Smart Phono. I built mine with a mix of tightly matched K40 paper in oil and Teflon caps, tightly matched JFETs and resistors. I'm using a Denon DL103R with Lundahl step up transformers. A while ago I added a very low noise voltage regulator board and B1 buffer on the output.
In comparison with the Smart Phono the BHL has much more weight and dynamics. I'm sure it's not a low distortion preamp, but it sounds nice to my ears in my system.
For me, my vinyl setup is about making a system that sounds nice and rich. My digital front end is where I try to achieve low distortion etc.
In comparison with the Smart Phono the BHL has much more weight and dynamics. I'm sure it's not a low distortion preamp, but it sounds nice to my ears in my system.
For me, my vinyl setup is about making a system that sounds nice and rich. My digital front end is where I try to achieve low distortion etc.
Just finished my BHL build and although it hasnt had time to burn in it sounds nice, no signs at all of overload/clipping and it is quiet, very quiet. As Ive said before this is nothing more than a FUN build for me and chance to play so I decided to really have a lot of fun..
I bought 2 boards so I could implement a full dual-mono setup which would leave an empty channel on each board. Hence my final build choices...
1. An opportunity to build 2 separate dual-mono setups in the same box..
2. My next idea was to have one dual-mono build using only matched high quality RUS military polystyrene caps and the other dual-mono with hand matched RUS military PIO caps in the RIAA only while preserving the same polystyrenes in the output coupling - all so I could listen for any possible differences using PIO or polystyrenes in the RIAA network...
3. Battery operation - again dual-mono build using 16 x AA (25V) for each channel
4. External PS to power front panel switch controlling dual relay boards where NC condition feeds ext 24V to the boards to allow for burn-in and maintain thermal stability when not on battery operation..
5. After each relay all power to the boards (batt or ext pwr) is passed thru a RC stack of 15 Ohm and 20 x ELNA 220uF caps - measured 4,500uF total... overkill??? you betcha and Im having fun
6. 2 x goldplated 16pin DIL IC sockets glued to rear panel as a easy plugin fixture for cartridge R and C loading.
7. DALE RN55 and RN60 resistors throughout - all components were tightly matched between channels as I am of the opinion that channel matching is a player in the quality of imaging..
Its only been going since the weekend and a few mates listened and we all agree it sounds very good and at this stage none of us could hear any difference between the poly or PIO RIAA altho I do reserve the right to revisit this after full-burn-in say a month or so from now. However I am of the opinion that polystyrene is the cap of choice for audio because of its low DA, hysteresis and most importantly long term stability - once youve measured and installed it and its kept in a thermally stable environment then it should continue to perform as well 20yrs from now the day it was installed. Also there is virtually no HUM at all Im impressed at how quiet this puppy is.
NOTE - that this is a bit of a test-bed for me before I build my SALAS SIMPLISTIC JFET phono, I had already ordered the BHL boards before I found out about SALAs et-al quality work.
Also I am waiting on a cover plate to fit to the rear panel to run the ext 24V power feed through so its current fix only a quickie..
Last - I havent had time yet to put this build on my test-rig. Once Ive got a weekend free Ill run it all up on my TEK AA501A distortion analyser and look at RIAA errors etc etc
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...=83f1ceb213b6cb28bbedfd37cfe17d28&oe=56BFBC93
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...=f621c412b051290260e0e91883a09035&oe=56C0F0AC
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...=34c067038336ac0362ff8fe6d7ca7c53&oe=56C86CBF
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...=55b1d5668d0cd09dc977f4afa9cae8f4&oe=56F9C03B
I bought 2 boards so I could implement a full dual-mono setup which would leave an empty channel on each board. Hence my final build choices...
1. An opportunity to build 2 separate dual-mono setups in the same box..
2. My next idea was to have one dual-mono build using only matched high quality RUS military polystyrene caps and the other dual-mono with hand matched RUS military PIO caps in the RIAA only while preserving the same polystyrenes in the output coupling - all so I could listen for any possible differences using PIO or polystyrenes in the RIAA network...
3. Battery operation - again dual-mono build using 16 x AA (25V) for each channel
4. External PS to power front panel switch controlling dual relay boards where NC condition feeds ext 24V to the boards to allow for burn-in and maintain thermal stability when not on battery operation..
5. After each relay all power to the boards (batt or ext pwr) is passed thru a RC stack of 15 Ohm and 20 x ELNA 220uF caps - measured 4,500uF total... overkill??? you betcha and Im having fun
6. 2 x goldplated 16pin DIL IC sockets glued to rear panel as a easy plugin fixture for cartridge R and C loading.
7. DALE RN55 and RN60 resistors throughout - all components were tightly matched between channels as I am of the opinion that channel matching is a player in the quality of imaging..
Its only been going since the weekend and a few mates listened and we all agree it sounds very good and at this stage none of us could hear any difference between the poly or PIO RIAA altho I do reserve the right to revisit this after full-burn-in say a month or so from now. However I am of the opinion that polystyrene is the cap of choice for audio because of its low DA, hysteresis and most importantly long term stability - once youve measured and installed it and its kept in a thermally stable environment then it should continue to perform as well 20yrs from now the day it was installed. Also there is virtually no HUM at all Im impressed at how quiet this puppy is.
NOTE - that this is a bit of a test-bed for me before I build my SALAS SIMPLISTIC JFET phono, I had already ordered the BHL boards before I found out about SALAs et-al quality work.
Also I am waiting on a cover plate to fit to the rear panel to run the ext 24V power feed through so its current fix only a quickie..
Last - I havent had time yet to put this build on my test-rig. Once Ive got a weekend free Ill run it all up on my TEK AA501A distortion analyser and look at RIAA errors etc etc
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...=83f1ceb213b6cb28bbedfd37cfe17d28&oe=56BFBC93
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...=f621c412b051290260e0e91883a09035&oe=56C0F0AC
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...=34c067038336ac0362ff8fe6d7ca7c53&oe=56C86CBF
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...=55b1d5668d0cd09dc977f4afa9cae8f4&oe=56F9C03B
Greetings, I've got the original Boozhound phono preamp and headamp and like it very much. I've built a couple of them, one for me and one for my dad. I recently made a ridiculously irresponsible purchase and got the VPI prime. As much as I like the Boozhound I am wondering if it is wise to pair a $4K table with a $100 DIY phono kit. Any thoughts on my options below?
-Keep my boozehound as is since I really do enjoy it - what would I have to spend/do to get a better sounding one?
-Upgrade key parts of my existing Boozhound and leverage what I have
---What parts?
-Go to the Boozhound deluxe
---What is the sound quality difference between the regular and deluxe?
-Try another project altogether
---What project?
For reference: I view the DIY aspect of this hobby largely as a way to get better sounding gear for the price. I do enjoy the DIY part, but am not really an enthusiast. I have a degree in physics (from quite a while ago!) so I can solder and read a circuit schematic etc ... but am far from expert. I have almost no shop skills. My chassis are usually just a hammond project box. So I really need a relatively mature kit.
I could just buy a phono amp but I've spent enough money already!!! Plus, like I said, I do enjoy the DIY aspect just perhaps not as much as many of you in this forum.
Thanks for your thoughts!
Nate
-Keep my boozehound as is since I really do enjoy it - what would I have to spend/do to get a better sounding one?
-Upgrade key parts of my existing Boozhound and leverage what I have
---What parts?
-Go to the Boozhound deluxe
---What is the sound quality difference between the regular and deluxe?
-Try another project altogether
---What project?
For reference: I view the DIY aspect of this hobby largely as a way to get better sounding gear for the price. I do enjoy the DIY part, but am not really an enthusiast. I have a degree in physics (from quite a while ago!) so I can solder and read a circuit schematic etc ... but am far from expert. I have almost no shop skills. My chassis are usually just a hammond project box. So I really need a relatively mature kit.
I could just buy a phono amp but I've spent enough money already!!! Plus, like I said, I do enjoy the DIY aspect just perhaps not as much as many of you in this forum.
Thanks for your thoughts!
Nate
I firmly believe that if it sounds good THEN IT IS, so why go chasing rainbows that cost you a pot of gold anyway? The BHL was a way to have some fun for me with no OTT expectations. DIY is about experimenting, learning and having fun..
The diffs between the BHL Standard and Deluxe boards are;
STD BOARD
- the STD is fixed 40dB gain for MM cartridges only
- has very high output impedance so the preamp that is connected to may affect the LF response
- its a dual channel board where both L and R channels share the same PS and ground-plane
THE DELUXE
- has a MC preAmp stage included in front of the MM stage (identical to the Std board)
- adjustable overall gain 50 to 70 dB (leaving out the MC front end gives you 40dB)
- has a low impedance output stage added after the MM stage which should aid LF response
- comprises 2 separate boards - 1 for each channel
IMO the deluxe board is way better value for money as
- the MC stage is built in and if you have a MM cart then simply dont build that stage leave it out and connect the cart directly to the MM stage
- the output buffer stage is included in the price and def provides a performance boost
If you wanted to improve your existing BHL STD then probably go for a low noise PS and buy 2 x output buffer module. I bought my cases via ebay and there was little in the way of workshop time on the case, most of the construction time was in the electronics build and testing.
And YET plenty of DIYers are satisfied with what they are hearing from it.. and at the end of the day it is about the listening experience.. WOOOOOOHOOO
Because my idea of DIY fun is CLEARLY very different to yours. I built this for the fun of it and not to meet your expectations and will continue to build and play as I see fit.
Fair enough. I thought it would be a good idea to discuss such an expensive kit on it's relative merits compared to something cheaper and more conventional.
By your logic though I'm one ahead
Were all very happy for you....
I heard one this summer, double mono configuration in an otherwise familiar set-up. It sounded pretty "lame". Not much life, rather boring. Looking at the circuit afterwards this wasn't surprising. It's more or less the RCA Manual phono stage changed to use transistors instead of tubes mixing the worst of both tube and transistor circuits. Just my impression.
Ive already answered your question - because its MY choice what I wish to build not yours.
I agree completely with kaputt on this one. It's the classic passive two triode preamp but with FETs.
Perhaps BHL would have done much better to replicate the Marantz circuit using JFETs. At least that way the headroom problems in the first stage are somewhat mitigated.
Don't forget that JFETs become very nonlinear as they are driven harder, so distortion maybe even 6dB below the point of clipping may be well over 1%.
Perhaps BHL would have done much better to replicate the Marantz circuit using JFETs. At least that way the headroom problems in the first stage are somewhat mitigated.
Don't forget that JFETs become very nonlinear as they are driven harder, so distortion maybe even 6dB below the point of clipping may be well over 1%.
Ive said from day one that this is not a high performance circuit and in fact even Jason from Boozhounds openly states in his documentation that this is NOT a HP build. Its just a fun build thats all it is. If you disagree with this build then dont buy it, dont build it and def dont take this circuit too seriously... BHL clearly state this... Im very happy with the final result, it sounds fine for what it is...
I CHOSE to build this because Ive worked proffessionally with opamps for >>35yrs and I wanted to build a discrete phono and it looked like some easy fun. This will not be my last phono build.
DIY is all about personal choice and I choose not to make the highest performance phono on the block and I will choose what next even if others think its crap because there is always someone somewhere who will disagree with someone elses choices.
Im sure if you published your preamp design and build there will be someone who will take issue with your tech choices, its a fact of life. But you dont build for others approval I build for my own personal satisfaction as do many others.
DIY - DO IT YOURSELF - the key word here is SELF..
I CHOSE to build this because Ive worked proffessionally with opamps for >>35yrs and I wanted to build a discrete phono and it looked like some easy fun. This will not be my last phono build.
DIY is all about personal choice and I choose not to make the highest performance phono on the block and I will choose what next even if others think its crap because there is always someone somewhere who will disagree with someone elses choices.
Im sure if you published your preamp design and build there will be someone who will take issue with your tech choices, its a fact of life. But you dont build for others approval I build for my own personal satisfaction as do many others.
DIY - DO IT YOURSELF - the key word here is SELF..
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Sorry to hijack this thread and make it all about me but what would be a good kit option for me? I can read a schematic and I can solder but that is where my skills end. My shop skills are minimal and I wouldn't know where to begin sourcing quality parts so I need a fairly mature "color by numbers" kit. I've built two boozhounds and 1 hotroded bugle. I listen to MC carts but I don't think I need I need a MC option. The boozhound headamp is in my opinion very very good. It is much better than the actual phono amp, which I also enjoy quite a bit.
I appreciate what you have to say ClassC about chasing the rainbow etc... Maybe I'm just the princess with the pea, but I have some very nice gear and the booz is the weak link. Regardless of how much I like I think it will always annoy me that I could be getting better. Don't get me wrong, I really like the BHL. I think it is a great option for a stereo with $1K components as a stake in the ground. I've enjoyed this hobby buffet style with lots of components to swap in and out. Recently I decided to consolidate and get the 1 best component I could afford. Thats gotten rid of the clutter in my house and increased the over all quality of my stereo but left the BHL behind.
I guess, considering my lack of shop skills and component savviness, should I just buy a manufactured amp?
Thanks!!!
Nate
I appreciate what you have to say ClassC about chasing the rainbow etc... Maybe I'm just the princess with the pea, but I have some very nice gear and the booz is the weak link. Regardless of how much I like I think it will always annoy me that I could be getting better. Don't get me wrong, I really like the BHL. I think it is a great option for a stereo with $1K components as a stake in the ground. I've enjoyed this hobby buffet style with lots of components to swap in and out. Recently I decided to consolidate and get the 1 best component I could afford. Thats gotten rid of the clutter in my house and increased the over all quality of my stereo but left the BHL behind.
I guess, considering my lack of shop skills and component savviness, should I just buy a manufactured amp?
Thanks!!!
Nate
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