Blind Listening Tests & Amplifiers – Commentary

[Peter Daniel]

I'm planning on using this SX-D7000, Pioneer receiver in my bedroom. Do you think it may equal Onkyo performance?

 

[nw_avphile]

I'm planning on using this SX-D7000, Pioneer receiver in my bedroom. Do you think it may equal Onkyo performance?

I have no idea but I somehow doubt it. It looks like it's early 80's vintage? Some Japanese stuff back then wasn't even using direct coupled output stages (i.e. they had single rail power supplies and a huge capacitor in series with the speakers).

As I've said many times, I only maintain that amplifiers that MEASURE reasonably well will be hard to tell apart in a proper blind test. I'm not sure your antique Pioneer would measure reasonably well--especially now that's it's 20 or so years old.

Obviously you're having fun here. That's fine. Here's a pic of the Onkyo SR500 used in the blind challenge.

 

[Peter Daniel]

From what they publish it seems like pretty good measurements:

 

[Peter Daniel]

And this is schematic of the output stage. It looks pretty good to me again, and there is no sign of " no direct coupled output stages (i.e. they had single rail power supplies and a huge capacitor in series with the speakers)". It actually might be better than Onkyo.

 

[Tube_Dude]

The Wrat tecnologie...

Hi Nw
This Onkyo maybe have a very good audio perfomance...(and i say maybe ) because i haven't do the null test with it!!!

The WRAT technologie is a current feedback power amp that achieve a large bandwith and very low phase shift across it...and high slew rate...

So i'm not surprised...that it can sound good...

 

[nw_avphile]

And this is schematic of the output stage. It looks pretty good to me again, and there is no sign of " no direct coupled output stages (i.e. they had single rail power supplies and a huge capacitor in series with the speakers)". It actually might be better than Onkyo.

If that's the schematic and specs of the receiver/amp you want to test with, AND if it still meets those specs with its dried up old electrolytics, after any repair work that's been done to it over the years, etc, then it should do reasonably well in a proper blind test.

Any "objectivists" in Toronto want to pop over to Peter's place to run a blind test for him? The only catch is, you have to compare it to another amp that measures reasonably well, keep them within their power limits, have them properly level matched, etc.

 

[nw_avphile]

Re: The Wrat tecnologie...

Hi Nw
This Onkyo maybe have a very good audio perfomance...(and i say maybe ) because i haven't do the null test with it!!!

The WRAT technologie is a current feedback power amp that achieve a large bandwith and very low phase shift across it...and high slew rate...

So i'm not surprised...that it can sound good...

That's a good point. I'm not sure if WRAT gives it an audible advantage or not but that is another way the Onkyo differs from most receivers in its price range. Onkyo also claims it's a low NFB design.

 

[Peter Daniel]

Any "objectivists" in Toronto want to pop over to Peter's place to run a blind test for him? The only catch is, you have to compare it to another amp that measures reasonably well, keep them within their power limits, have them properly level matched, etc.

For that occasion I keep a better amp. I still have the access to Carver M1.0t (my brother in law bought it from me years ago) and can use it anytime for a blind test. Anybody's interested?

I have a weak spot for an old Pioneer stuff and I buy it whenever I see a good deal.

 

[wuffwaff]

Peter,

I think the Pioneer will do very fine in your bedroom.....especially when you´re sleeping

william

 

[Peter Daniel]

Too bad it doesn't display time

 

[nw_avphile]

For that occasion I keep a better amp. I still have the access to Carver M1.0t (my brother in law bought it from me years ago) and can use it anytime for a blind test. Anybody's interested?

That won't work! The M1.0t was made to sound like a tube amp that was chosen for sounding very different from "normal" amps. It doesn't measure very well either.

 

[Nicwix]

Re: Re: Re: Oh my God .........

Ah, but to get a truly representative scale the posts would have to be marked blind with the details of the poster removed and by a panel of independant third parties, with the results scaled appropriately

Pinkmouse - that the best and funniest post I've read all year!!! Your comment reveals much of the feeling underlying the discussion.

ROTFLMAO

Nic

ps The intent of this thread was to gain a better understanding of group dynamics, value system, styles and social interactions evident in the original thread - we are hoping that, with your psychology background, you will reveal further great insights.

 

[mefinnis]

Pinkmouse ?????

Have to say I agree with the above ..... great post. Actually ...... despite being quite funny ....... it is entirely accurate !!!!

Which makes it even funnier .... eh!

Interesting name, "pinkmouse" ...... is this to ward-off the pink elephants ????

mark

 

[mrfeedback]

Test Results.

So, did anybody read the articles I referred to, or try the pitch perception test ?.

Eric.

 

[fdegrove]

FLUNKED.

Hi,

Test Results.

Yes Sir, did do so and passed with flying colours.

They gave me a pink mousy when I left the test cubicle, dunno why...

 

[SY]

I do a pitch perception test every time I tune my guitar. I play badly, but in-tune.

 

[wuffwaff]

Eric,

I tried to do the pitch test last night and just now but somehow after hearing sample A and B something gets stuck and it seems to be impossible to hear C,D or E.

Will try again tonight,

William

 

[mrfeedback]

more Blind drunk: ) Testing.

Originally posted by SY
Wow, so adding things up, I'm old, I've got crappy speakers, I've got a crappy room, I'm an alcoholic, and I'm tone deaf.

I do a pitch perception test every time I tune my guitar. I play badly, but in-tune.

So, how do you know that ?.

Eric.

 

[SY]

So, how do you know that ?.

The milk in the refrigerator doesn't suddenly turn sour, like it does when I sing.

 

[pinkmouse]

Some quotes from a site on Neuro-linguistic programming, seems relevant

Firstly, about NLP, does this sound familiar?

_

It's more a collection of tools than any overarching theory. NLP is heavily pragmatic: if a tool works, it's included in the model, even if there's no theory to back it up. None of the current NLP developers have done research to "prove" their models correct. The party line is "pretend it works, try it, and notice the results you get. If you don't get the result you want, try something else."

Communication problems-

Different people seem to represent knowledge in different sensory modalities. Their language reveals their representation. Often, communication difficulties are little more than two people speaking in incompatible representation systems.

For example, the "same" sentence might be expressed differently by different people:
Auditory: "I really hear what you're saying."
Visual: "I see what you mean."
Kinesthetic: "I've got a handle on that."

Finally, this might apply to us, therefore all my comments are meaningless!

I was once in a group dynamics experiment where an outsider watched our group and pointed out to us how we kept getting stuck, because of certain behavioral loops we were in. Even with this knowledge, we were unable to break the loops without incredible effort. And then our efforts to break the loops fell into the same loops.