Sorry not sure what you are saying?
1/2 wave behavior is resonance?
Afaik traditional horns are not designed to be resonant.
_-_-bear
anyhow hm's product, on his webpages:
"Some things to note about this design: There is a forward-firing and rear-firing driver. Depending on choices of the builder, the rear driver can be a woofer or a second fullrange driver. -- The two drivers drive two different horns, of different length and expansion.
The idea is that the horns have different peaks and dips and fill in each other's weak points. --
The inner horn rests on the outer section via a panel of soft fiberboard, which decouples it.
Also notice how the horn mouth is wrapped around the entire enclosure. It is relatively large,
yet the enclosure the driver sees is relatively small.
Finally, I think it is a beautifully proportioned horn, which draws much less attention to itself
than some of Horst's other designs.
To his credit, and downfall, of most of his designs. He is criticized for strange and peaky/dippy response graphs, but I think they mostly show how tough it is to measure a smooth response in a room. He offers several measurements, from several drivers, measured in several positions. At the very least, the horn does bass. At best, it has response below 30 Hz."
_-_-bear
"Some things to note about this design: There is a forward-firing and rear-firing driver. Depending on choices of the builder, the rear driver can be a woofer or a second fullrange driver. -- The two drivers drive two different horns, of different length and expansion.
The idea is that the horns have different peaks and dips and fill in each other's weak points. --
The inner horn rests on the outer section via a panel of soft fiberboard, which decouples it.
Also notice how the horn mouth is wrapped around the entire enclosure. It is relatively large,
yet the enclosure the driver sees is relatively small.
Finally, I think it is a beautifully proportioned horn, which draws much less attention to itself
than some of Horst's other designs.
To his credit, and downfall, of most of his designs. He is criticized for strange and peaky/dippy response graphs, but I think they mostly show how tough it is to measure a smooth response in a room. He offers several measurements, from several drivers, measured in several positions. At the very least, the horn does bass. At best, it has response below 30 Hz."
_-_-bear
In theory, the horn has a bit more gain in the mechanical XO BW, so generally doesn't need any BSC, making for a bit better mid-band dynamics and maybe fewer components in the signal's path-length.
The reality though in how they sound is in how each person perceives the differences, so it's up to the individual to do whatever it takes to find out which type of speaker alignment sounds best overall to them.
GM
The reality though in how they sound is in how each person perceives the differences, so it's up to the individual to do whatever it takes to find out which type of speaker alignment sounds best overall to them.
GM
Since you like his explanations, did you look at the "excessively truncated" curve for the bass horn?
Also, the "3 octave rule" is not a rule.
Take the Altec 1003 for example.
It works fine from 300Hz to above 10kHz.
That is more than 5 octaves. Flat. Have measurements that show this - but in case you want me to post, they are not current and I do not have them on hand.
Also the WE555 goes form ~100Hz. to >5kHz on several WE horns. Again more than 5 octaves.
_-_-bear
late as always...
I think that the mouth size has been one of his points, historically. Horst's experiments in his spaces have led him to believe length and flare to be more important.
I didn't know about that project, either, but it seems that what's different from Horst's previous efforts is that the mouths aren't separate so it's not just electrical "interlacing". My artist's rendition looks like a really bad phase plug (I know, don't quit my day job).
I think that the mouth size has been one of his points, historically. Horst's experiments in his spaces have led him to believe length and flare to be more important.
I didn't know about that project, either, but it seems that what's different from Horst's previous efforts is that the mouths aren't separate so it's not just electrical "interlacing". My artist's rendition looks like a really bad phase plug (I know, don't quit my day job).
Attachments
Look, I don't want to be adversarial at all. The idea that Horst seems to have is to take two "imperfect" horns, each having the usual "comb filter" response in the output, and select them so that the nulls and peaks interlace, filling in the response.
At least I think that is what is being suggested?
I suppose this is successful in the frequency domain to some extent. And, as I said before if it produces reasonably flat response lower than is usual for the driver type and box volume, then it has merit if for that alone.
@grindstone, I get your diagram, but I think there is a truncation more like before the mouth flare you show... seems that way.
_-_-bear
At least I think that is what is being suggested?
I suppose this is successful in the frequency domain to some extent. And, as I said before if it produces reasonably flat response lower than is usual for the driver type and box volume, then it has merit if for that alone.
@grindstone, I get your diagram, but I think there is a truncation more like before the mouth flare you show... seems that way.
_-_-bear
actually it's a slick, smart idea.
one of those, "DOH! I shoulda thought of that!"
But that is not to say there are no issues to consider, and that is probably why I personally did not think in those terms and looked to solve similar problems using different methods. Still clever way to get around a number of design roadblocks!
I look forward to having an opportunity to hear it someday.
_-_-bear
one of those, "DOH! I shoulda thought of that!"
But that is not to say there are no issues to consider, and that is probably why I personally did not think in those terms and looked to solve similar problems using different methods. Still clever way to get around a number of design roadblocks!
I look forward to having an opportunity to hear it someday.
_-_-bear
Indeed.
For the sake of interest the basic concept has actually been around for decades in various forms; Voigt gave some examples in his patents back in the early 1930s, and around the turn of the century there was some interest for differentially tuned TQWT (otherwise known as 'conical horns' ), but for one reason & another it never gained much traction. These things come & go; I suspect it will see a rise in popularity at some point.
For the sake of interest the basic concept has actually been around for decades in various forms; Voigt gave some examples in his patents back in the early 1930s, and around the turn of the century there was some interest for differentially tuned TQWT (otherwise known as 'conical horns'
), but for one reason & another it never gained much traction. These things come & go; I suspect it will see a rise in popularity at some point.
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psst: freddi
I remember seeing that pipe but it has been a very long time and it was disquieting to see again and try to remember what I used to think
Also seem not to have the attention-span for actual reading or comprehension but I gotta say that thing almost screams for k-slots in each tube, too.
Anybody got a steer to Axiette measurables?
I remember seeing that pipe but it has been a very long time and it was disquieting to see again and try to remember what I used to think
Also seem not to have the attention-span for actual reading or comprehension but I gotta say that thing almost screams for k-slots in each tube, too.
Anybody got a steer to Axiette measurables?
Even longer if we include W.E.'s late '20s 12A, 13A horn set-up to improve off axis speech intelligibility in large cinemas that probably was the 'seed' for later variations all the way to it being re-invented for small cinema/HT apps in the '90s.
GM
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