Hi Carlos,
I was assuming a schematic, but there was no schematic.
==> zero components ....just joking... and trying to search in hypersapce for the hidden components....
But now I think you did not want to post a schematic, but you were talking about a brand called "Blameless"..., right?
Bye
Markus
I was assuming a schematic, but there was no schematic.
==> zero components ....just joking... and trying to search in hypersapce for the hidden components....
But now I think you did not want to post a schematic, but you were talking about a brand called "Blameless"..., right?
Bye
Markus
That's it, you all get it!, i cannot put schematics
I suppose i cannot, because copyrigth.
I already simulate, and in simulations...My god!... wonderfull!
But real world hearing........ My god!
We have to respect the man, he is a Doctor, a teacher, and this turns the conversation a little difficult, i know.
This way, i dislike it, but will not write clear all the words related to this amplifier, respecting the man he is...or was....i think he is alive, this amplifier was made 8 to 10 years ago...Mr. Douglas Self, Blameless amplifiers.
I never could see so good simulations.... could beat JLH designs.... i said to myself...my god!... i found the amplifier.
I use the best transistors.... noise, hi gain, hi frequency, power... the most used.... the ones people likes....and measure with care... and adjusted kindly... and check the real voltages with simulator voltages and could find 30 percent differences.... but only one...others 15 to 20 percent...my voltage correct and all passive components checked before assembling.... tested 4 different speakers, four different rooms , and five differents people said almost the same.... aaaaaagh!
This way, if cannot, or do not like, or think, alike me, that no good education put this man over the fire.... tell me directly by mail... i am asking you as a special favor....because confused..... already searching the perfect one... the one that is near perfection, the best i ever constructed is JLH designs, but i like many others, i can hear and feel good and confortable with others too...less than one hand count!
HJELM, class b?.... i adjust mine to class AB, some current in output, no one cutted or almost cutted transistor...off transistor... am i wrong hjelm?
pmKap, thank you to put the link.
I will invite you to new thread i will open now... please, tell me some.
Carlos
I suppose i cannot, because copyrigth.
I already simulate, and in simulations...My god!... wonderfull!
But real world hearing........ My god!
We have to respect the man, he is a Doctor, a teacher, and this turns the conversation a little difficult, i know.
This way, i dislike it, but will not write clear all the words related to this amplifier, respecting the man he is...or was....i think he is alive, this amplifier was made 8 to 10 years ago...Mr. Douglas Self, Blameless amplifiers.
I never could see so good simulations.... could beat JLH designs.... i said to myself...my god!... i found the amplifier.
I use the best transistors.... noise, hi gain, hi frequency, power... the most used.... the ones people likes....and measure with care... and adjusted kindly... and check the real voltages with simulator voltages and could find 30 percent differences.... but only one...others 15 to 20 percent...my voltage correct and all passive components checked before assembling.... tested 4 different speakers, four different rooms , and five differents people said almost the same.... aaaaaagh!
This way, if cannot, or do not like, or think, alike me, that no good education put this man over the fire.... tell me directly by mail... i am asking you as a special favor....because confused..... already searching the perfect one... the one that is near perfection, the best i ever constructed is JLH designs, but i like many others, i can hear and feel good and confortable with others too...less than one hand count!
HJELM, class b?.... i adjust mine to class AB, some current in output, no one cutted or almost cutted transistor...off transistor... am i wrong hjelm?
pmKap, thank you to put the link.
I will invite you to new thread i will open now... please, tell me some.
Carlos
Interesting idea traderbam, this way, if he apear here in forum
I will call you to explain this to him .
I will be under the bad, with one enourmous paper with those words " I am out and will return around year 2050"
Yeahhh!, i am a coward!... because the real heroes do not return to receive medal in war... the ones that survive, maybe because the real heroes fight for them, to save their lifes, the ones "under the bad", stay alive to receive their own medals.
This one teached the teacher that teach you!
Maybe i am wrong giving so big respect...but this is not what i want to know....about him i do not want to know...because he will be not satisfied with me.... and i do not feel happy to disturb no one, in special this "Big one"
Carlos
I will call you to explain this to him .
I will be under the bad, with one enourmous paper with those words " I am out and will return around year 2050"
Yeahhh!, i am a coward!... because the real heroes do not return to receive medal in war... the ones that survive, maybe because the real heroes fight for them, to save their lifes, the ones "under the bad", stay alive to receive their own medals.
This one teached the teacher that teach you!
Maybe i am wrong giving so big respect...but this is not what i want to know....about him i do not want to know...because he will be not satisfied with me.... and i do not feel happy to disturb no one, in special this "Big one"
Carlos
I think it’s a bit hard to judge a designer by the way you think a design performs.
First of all you have to know what design philosophy is being applied to a certain design.
The philosophy can IMHO be one or more of the following (I probably forgot some)
1. Create an amp that sound nice to me (The designer)
2. Create an amp the sound nice to a lot of people
3. Create an amp that everybody can live with
4. Create a perfect amp that give no “colour” to the sound (Is a perfect multiplication)
The way I read Self’s books I think he tries to make number 4. The reason is that he thinks that the niceness in a system should be kept in a box with a nub for niceness adjustment.
I tend to agree. Because HIFI means that the system strives to recreate the music as accurately as possible – limited only by the quality of the source signal. This in turn means that an amplifier should have no influence of the way the listener perceives the program material.
Of cause this is difficult (maybe even impossible) but if the design philosophy is to create a neutral sounding amp, you can not say that the designer is unsuccessful because you happen to dislike the way the amp performs.
This raises some questions that need the attention of some of our experienced amp designers.
What would people prefer if they had the choice between a perfect amp (a pure and perfect multiplication) and an amplifier that sounds “nice” because of well placed harmonic distortion?
And witch one is a HIFI amp?
\Jens
First of all you have to know what design philosophy is being applied to a certain design.
The philosophy can IMHO be one or more of the following (I probably forgot some)
1. Create an amp that sound nice to me (The designer)
2. Create an amp the sound nice to a lot of people
3. Create an amp that everybody can live with
4. Create a perfect amp that give no “colour” to the sound (Is a perfect multiplication)
The way I read Self’s books I think he tries to make number 4. The reason is that he thinks that the niceness in a system should be kept in a box with a nub for niceness adjustment.
I tend to agree. Because HIFI means that the system strives to recreate the music as accurately as possible – limited only by the quality of the source signal. This in turn means that an amplifier should have no influence of the way the listener perceives the program material.
Of cause this is difficult (maybe even impossible) but if the design philosophy is to create a neutral sounding amp, you can not say that the designer is unsuccessful because you happen to dislike the way the amp performs.
This raises some questions that need the attention of some of our experienced amp designers.
What would people prefer if they had the choice between a perfect amp (a pure and perfect multiplication) and an amplifier that sounds “nice” because of well placed harmonic distortion?
And witch one is a HIFI amp?
\Jens
Good Jens, i appreciate your cooperation
Have you heard this amplifier Jens?
Related your text and ideas, nothing to talk... only to thank you to open our minds a little bit more.
I will like to hear some subjective feelings, because one englishman told me boomy... bassy guy... and i am starting to suspect he is rigth.
Asking people ideas, i will confirm this or not.
bye Jens
Carlos
Have you heard this amplifier Jens?
Related your text and ideas, nothing to talk... only to thank you to open our minds a little bit more.
I will like to hear some subjective feelings, because one englishman told me boomy... bassy guy... and i am starting to suspect he is rigth.
Asking people ideas, i will confirm this or not.
bye Jens
Carlos
On this subject no one taught me.
Jan, you may be right to think that Self is trying to achieve 4 but the whole problem is that he is making designs to be auditioned by oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers. What we need are designs optimised for human audition.
IMO it is a mistake and a sort of evasion of responsibility when people introduce this concept that the perfect reproduction may sound worse than a distorted reproduction. I think this is insulting to the human brain. It arises out of a sense of defeat - a defeat re-inforced by people like Self who mislead us to think they have covered all the ground of item 4 and so we must seek psycho-acoustic craftsmanship to get great "perceived" sound.
Complete rubbish.
Here's the lesson: just because you aren't able to measure the imperfections doesn't mean they aren't there.
Destroyer - if you think Self's circuit sounds poor then IT IS. It isn't your hearing, and Self is only capabale of making something to that standard no matter how many words and diagrams he publishes.
Hi Destroyer,
( Does Destroyer refer to amplifiers ? )
Have you just built a Blameless ?
This design is measured via steady sinewave, not music signal.
It has a series output choke and Darlington VAS Miller connected 100pF C.dom which cause transient - music - distortion.
VAS gain is 3000 x 100pF; C.dom = 300nF !
Cures would be experimental and not 'Blameless'
Cheers .............. Graham.
( Does Destroyer refer to amplifiers ? )
Have you just built a Blameless ?
This design is measured via steady sinewave, not music signal.
It has a series output choke and Darlington VAS Miller connected 100pF C.dom which cause transient - music - distortion.
VAS gain is 3000 x 100pF; C.dom = 300nF !
Cures would be experimental and not 'Blameless'
Cheers .............. Graham.
Yes traderbahn, i think the same as you
But beeing not an enginner, i do not feel myself capable to say the words you can say, because you have the knowledge to say that and be respected.
I think no good sounding amplifier, but i cannot say bad design or not, i have to respect the man that have a degree and this one is not only one engineer, he is also a teacher and as people said, a Doctor, he maybe defend some theory, some scientific idea, a thesis in my language, do not know if has meaning to you.
Jens has also a degree... this way i am asking people to explain technical when can do it (engineers and highly skilled designers, beeing enginners or not) and the ones that can talk in subjective ways, audiophiles, audiomaniacs, and music lovers... and in special the ones i think the main people to judge sound..... the ones that loves to hear "sound", not music.... the ones that can sing a song, are the ones that be atention to music... the sound plus the words..... the "sound" listeners have another kind of attention, alike one television professional never listen to what people talk or what the camera capture, they are seeing scanning lines, hue, color, saturation, video level, black level, distortions in audio, hum, noises, echo, compresion expansion...but do not know what people talk, not even the subject they talk....maybe if male of female voice, and if good image or not....other way to observe things.
Jens also construct one amplifier from a Doctor, one important US doctor, and sounds awfull, very, very bad for my ears, and my friends ears too....he also constructed one poor amplifier, really simple from Rodd that sounds good.
But i do not hear jens amplifier, he used some special condensers i saw.... and some people says with strong and high that this makes a big difference.
Carlos
But beeing not an enginner, i do not feel myself capable to say the words you can say, because you have the knowledge to say that and be respected.
I think no good sounding amplifier, but i cannot say bad design or not, i have to respect the man that have a degree and this one is not only one engineer, he is also a teacher and as people said, a Doctor, he maybe defend some theory, some scientific idea, a thesis in my language, do not know if has meaning to you.
Jens has also a degree... this way i am asking people to explain technical when can do it (engineers and highly skilled designers, beeing enginners or not) and the ones that can talk in subjective ways, audiophiles, audiomaniacs, and music lovers... and in special the ones i think the main people to judge sound..... the ones that loves to hear "sound", not music.... the ones that can sing a song, are the ones that be atention to music... the sound plus the words..... the "sound" listeners have another kind of attention, alike one television professional never listen to what people talk or what the camera capture, they are seeing scanning lines, hue, color, saturation, video level, black level, distortions in audio, hum, noises, echo, compresion expansion...but do not know what people talk, not even the subject they talk....maybe if male of female voice, and if good image or not....other way to observe things.
Jens also construct one amplifier from a Doctor, one important US doctor, and sounds awfull, very, very bad for my ears, and my friends ears too....he also constructed one poor amplifier, really simple from Rodd that sounds good.
But i do not hear jens amplifier, he used some special condensers i saw.... and some people says with strong and high that this makes a big difference.
Carlos
hehe Maynard, your blood is here, mixed
Thank you maynard.. good to hear that.... we have here more tha a Hundred Maynard.... some in Rio de Janeiro and only one in Natal, Rio Grande do Norte...Northeast of brazil is Natal, Rio de Janeiro is at southeast.
Very close to me a Maynard Wendel... this Wendel from Dennmark
Carlos
Thank you maynard.. good to hear that.... we have here more tha a Hundred Maynard.... some in Rio de Janeiro and only one in Natal, Rio Grande do Norte...Northeast of brazil is Natal, Rio de Janeiro is at southeast.
Very close to me a Maynard Wendel... this Wendel from Dennmark
Carlos
Some of Slone's designs are essentially "Blameless" with some bells and whistles. The "11.4" is a good example. Some of us here have built it and seem very happy with the sound.
BTW, the Self designs you can buy PCBs for are not "Blameless" but use that as a starting point. In fact, Self makes the point that a pure "Blameless" is not intended to be optimal, but rather a baseline based on a generic Linn topology in which there are no obvious or easily avoidable faults. He uses it as a test vehicle to modify in order to evaluate the effect of various aspects of amp design and as a starting point to develope potential improvements such as in his "Load Invariant" and Class-G designs.
If you take the "Blameless" to be Self's destination rather that his point of departure, you miss the point.
BTW, the Self designs you can buy PCBs for are not "Blameless" but use that as a starting point. In fact, Self makes the point that a pure "Blameless" is not intended to be optimal, but rather a baseline based on a generic Linn topology in which there are no obvious or easily avoidable faults. He uses it as a test vehicle to modify in order to evaluate the effect of various aspects of amp design and as a starting point to develope potential improvements such as in his "Load Invariant" and Class-G designs.
If you take the "Blameless" to be Self's destination rather that his point of departure, you miss the point.
Graham Maynard said:
Hi Graham,
most of the amplifiers use output choke, and Miller capacitor at the VAS stage. And there are some amplifier which sounds good...
I think that Mr. Self get the THD, and try to kill it. But he doesn't care with other parameters, such as IM, TIM, DIM etc. Reduce the THD is not so complicated, just go higher open loop gain, and apply more nfb. This way will increase the dynamic distortions as well. I don't care as much with the THD. My amplifiers not use large nfb, max. 12-14dB. The THD is bit more, say 0.5-1%, but I think this is not so important in practical apllication (listening)
sajti
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