I'm sorry guys but I'm really busy at the moment and don't have time to read all the replies so far.
I believe the finely devided carbon is to do with charge transfer in the electrolytic goo.
From what I can tell, regular electrolytics rely on charged ions in the goo to transfer charges from plate to plate.
I think BG's use a different idea and the finely divided carbon is used to electrically conduct, transfer, whatever, electrons in the goo from one plate to the other. They have 'transcendent electron transfer' or something written on the side from memory. I think this is why they've managed to get a patent for the capacitors.
Apparently, if you have too much carbon in the goo, it becomes too conductive and it shorts out. But if you have something near this certain amount, it changes the method of charge movement.
I would expect that since the method doesn't rely on entire ions to move the charge, it's probably a lot quicker, perhaps a considerable fraction of light speed.
Please don't quote me on this or argue with what I've said as though it were verse, I'm writing this totally from memory. I also have no idea whether these transfer methods or their massive price tag make them worth it.
I'm guessing Black Gate has something to do with the colour of the factory if they were using a lot of finely divided carbon, rather than some ancient mythological tale of adventure.
I think the new farad capacitors are due to an improvement in etching and winding technology, as opposed to carbon in the goo.
I believe the finely devided carbon is to do with charge transfer in the electrolytic goo.
From what I can tell, regular electrolytics rely on charged ions in the goo to transfer charges from plate to plate.
I think BG's use a different idea and the finely divided carbon is used to electrically conduct, transfer, whatever, electrons in the goo from one plate to the other. They have 'transcendent electron transfer' or something written on the side from memory. I think this is why they've managed to get a patent for the capacitors.
Apparently, if you have too much carbon in the goo, it becomes too conductive and it shorts out. But if you have something near this certain amount, it changes the method of charge movement.
I would expect that since the method doesn't rely on entire ions to move the charge, it's probably a lot quicker, perhaps a considerable fraction of light speed.
Please don't quote me on this or argue with what I've said as though it were verse, I'm writing this totally from memory. I also have no idea whether these transfer methods or their massive price tag make them worth it.
I'm guessing Black Gate has something to do with the colour of the factory if they were using a lot of finely divided carbon, rather than some ancient mythological tale of adventure.
I think the new farad capacitors are due to an improvement in etching and winding technology, as opposed to carbon in the goo.
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And I thought it was Rommel, but no it was Herman Brood, who managed to flew under my radar all this years. I think the only Dutch rockers I know is Lord Rockingham's XI, but that happen a long time ago.
How can a would-be dutchman not recognise the only real Rock&Roll artist Holland has known ?
The guy was called Herman Brood and I am sure if you ask some dutch relatives in the USA about him they will have a certain opinion about him. Herman was a walking example of hard drug abuse and being healthy at the same time. That is till he jumped off the roof of the Hilton last year.
That does not imply that I am in favor of drugs. On the contrary.
Just liked his rebellious character for some reason
I imagine seeing you walking around there on wooden shoes, eating cheese hehehe.
Not all of us are called Jan !
Cheers,
Jean-Paul
BTW the topic seems lost...
And I thought it was Rommel, but no it was Herman Brood, who managed to flew under my radar all this years. I think the only Dutch rockers I know is Lord Rockingham's XI, but that happen a long time ago.
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At least Erwin Rommel was one of the lesser evils in that time.
The Forced Suicide of Field Marshall Rommel, 1944
The Forced Suicide of Field Marshall Rommel, 1944
That would have been quite difficult as he already died in 1944. As he plotted an attack on Hitler that was discovered he was offered (by Hitler) to commit suicide and be spared of a court-martial. He choose to commit suicide by cyanide and got a fake full military honour funeral. Hitler was very aware of the popularity of Erwin Rommel and feared for negative impact when Rommel would be court-martialled. Hitler even managed to send a dubious condolences telegram to Rommel's widow. This while Rommel's wife and son were informed by Rommel of the "choice" he was offered and said a last goodbye to him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-moments-ordered-commit-suicide-Hitler.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-moments-ordered-commit-suicide-Hitler.html
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There are no known war crimes of Rommel against prisoners of war, jews or other people that were targeted by the nazis. There is controversy over execution of prisoners in North Africa but no evidence that incriminates Rommel. He is one of the very few nazis that were respected by their allied counterparts. Supposedly he was a man of honour fighting for a very wrong cause.
IMO the condolences are dubious as they are sent by the man that ordered Rommel to commit suicide or otherwise be court-martialled and his family slain (Sippenhaftung). To write "aufrichtiges Beileid" is hypocrisy when it is said by the one that ordered the suicide. It was all in the own interest of Hitler.
Anyway, although I like to study WW2 history (like many other europeans my family suffered under nazi rule) I don't feel this forum is the right place for that. Probably it is categorised under "politics" too so maybe even against forum rules. Interesting history nonetheless !
IMO the condolences are dubious as they are sent by the man that ordered Rommel to commit suicide or otherwise be court-martialled and his family slain (Sippenhaftung). To write "aufrichtiges Beileid" is hypocrisy when it is said by the one that ordered the suicide. It was all in the own interest of Hitler.
Anyway, although I like to study WW2 history (like many other europeans my family suffered under nazi rule) I don't feel this forum is the right place for that. Probably it is categorised under "politics" too so maybe even against forum rules. Interesting history nonetheless !
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https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d86_1411019580
Wim Kayser had a programseries on dutch tv, talking with great minds, called "A magnificent accident" (Een Schitterend Ongeluk). This link isn't the program but shows selective cut clips.
For BG development some ask if it was by accident they found it was a capacitor with certain qualities.
Wim Kayser had a programseries on dutch tv, talking with great minds, called "A magnificent accident" (Een Schitterend Ongeluk). This link isn't the program but shows selective cut clips.
For BG development some ask if it was by accident they found it was a capacitor with certain qualities.
Yeah back to BG after 15 years They were probably invented by accident and they were probably not terminated by accident. I recently discussed this with a former distributor and it is known that the very fine graphite impregnated paper is very hard to produce and Jelmax is said to have had only one source in Japan that was able to produce this paper. Secondly BG caps are not ROHS as they contain (supposedly) palladium particles and tin/lead solder clad copper lead wires. I have no means to check if they really contain palladium. If this is true production would have been hazardous to the people in the factory and the parts would not have been allowed anymore in many markets.
Of course this does not mean these caps are less excellent in performance. Just don't take them apart and don't eat them.
It seems a bit like the solvent based paints against water based paints issue. Any painter will say water based paint is best (as he uses this 8 hours a day and likes to repaint customers houses every 2 year) while painting his own house exclusively with solvent based paints
They were probably invented by accident and they were probably not terminated by accident. I recently discussed this with a former distributor and it is known that the very fine graphite impregnated paper is very hard to produce and Jelmax is said to have had only one source in Japan that was able to produce this paper. Secondly BG caps are not ROHS as they contain (supposedly) palladium particles and tin/lead solder clad copper lead wires. I have no means to check if they really contain palladium. If this is true production would have been hazardous to the people in the factory and the parts would not have been allowed anymore in many markets.Of course this does not mean these caps are less excellent in performance. Just don't take them apart and don't eat them.
It seems a bit like the solvent based paints against water based paints issue. Any painter will say water based paint is best (as he uses this 8 hours a day and likes to repaint customers houses every 2 year) while painting his own house exclusively with solvent based paints
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Jean-paul again your right, wrong place to discuss this political matter even if it was discussed from a neutral historical point of view. Glad that this times are over. I'm always frightend when I here about uprising autocrates in democratic countries. So it seems that it isn't disscused enough.
Back to BG, interessting that it might have been invented by an accident.
Audio Note tries to reproduce the Bg with a Team from Rubycon. Actually they reproduced them without the graphite impregnated paper. But according to there statement they are quite close to make it happen again.
"Forthcoming Audio Note™ Black Gate Replacements*
It is perhaps pertinent to clarify the situation surrounding the Black Gate capacitors, Rubycon has not made these since 2006 and they are therefore not available, I should warn you that there are LOTs of fakes around, it is comparatively easy to make fakes, all it requires is a printed sleeve that looks like an original Black Gate, so except from one or two outlets who stocked up before they were discontinued most Black Gate capacitors offered on eBay are fakes, especially those coming from sellers in in South East Asia, so be very weary of “cheap” “genuine” Black Gates on offer from places like China, HK, Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore etc. they are most likely fakes.*
For the past 6 years Audio Note™ has been working with Rubycon to design and make Audio Note™ branded Black Gate replacements, these will not be exact copies of Black Gates as such, but they will represent what we consider to be a further development of the Black Gate technology, primarily through improved materials but also by combinations of materials with the main focus on sound quality rather than purely measured performance, I think it is important to stress the fact that we at Audio Note™ still consider the Black Gate the finest sounding electrolytic capacitor ever made and we are therefore keen to reinstate and hopefully improve upon this level of quality before our internal stock of original Black Gates runs out.*
Andy and I came back from Japan in early February and the progress update is not quite as good as we had hoped, Rubycon are struggling to find a supplier of the carbonized paper, who can imbed the graphite particles evenly into the paper, so we are still some way away from being able to make replacements, work goes on. That is really all there is to say at this time.*
PQ 22.02.2016"
http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/cap_electro.shtml
This supports what you said.
Back to BG, interessting that it might have been invented by an accident.
Audio Note tries to reproduce the Bg with a Team from Rubycon. Actually they reproduced them without the graphite impregnated paper. But according to there statement they are quite close to make it happen again.
"Forthcoming Audio Note™ Black Gate Replacements*
It is perhaps pertinent to clarify the situation surrounding the Black Gate capacitors, Rubycon has not made these since 2006 and they are therefore not available, I should warn you that there are LOTs of fakes around, it is comparatively easy to make fakes, all it requires is a printed sleeve that looks like an original Black Gate, so except from one or two outlets who stocked up before they were discontinued most Black Gate capacitors offered on eBay are fakes, especially those coming from sellers in in South East Asia, so be very weary of “cheap” “genuine” Black Gates on offer from places like China, HK, Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore etc. they are most likely fakes.*
For the past 6 years Audio Note™ has been working with Rubycon to design and make Audio Note™ branded Black Gate replacements, these will not be exact copies of Black Gates as such, but they will represent what we consider to be a further development of the Black Gate technology, primarily through improved materials but also by combinations of materials with the main focus on sound quality rather than purely measured performance, I think it is important to stress the fact that we at Audio Note™ still consider the Black Gate the finest sounding electrolytic capacitor ever made and we are therefore keen to reinstate and hopefully improve upon this level of quality before our internal stock of original Black Gates runs out.*
Andy and I came back from Japan in early February and the progress update is not quite as good as we had hoped, Rubycon are struggling to find a supplier of the carbonized paper, who can imbed the graphite particles evenly into the paper, so we are still some way away from being able to make replacements, work goes on. That is really all there is to say at this time.*
PQ 22.02.2016"
http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/cap_electro.shtml
This supports what you said.
Btw why is Palladium not ROHS.. The most metals arent healthy in particle shape?
Palladium is used in a crucial lead free process E.g. (but most probably no particles)
http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/quality/environmental_info/lead-free.page
Palladium is used in a crucial lead free process E.g. (but most probably no particles)
http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/quality/environmental_info/lead-free.page
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On the other hand this fear seems to paralyse critical thinking of current issues. "The war" is a reason in the Netherlands and Germany to keep silent about the immigrant issue and the clearly related rise in criminal offences.
Good knowledge of the nazi era is needed but preventing oneself from drawing clear lines is another. When I heard the holocaust is not taught anymore in some schools as some students take offence I think we are on the wrong path.
Regarding palladium: it is of low toxicity and there are suspicions that is might be carcinogenic. This is just wikipedia info that I just googled. Maybe it is more dangerous in small particles, I don't know. Many materials are bad for the health when they are small particles indeed.
I don't know what to say about Audio Note trying to produce Black Gate replacements. I was told they are not as good (by someone that has tried the Kaisei series). The mentioning of fake BG caps is in their interest as their "BG replacements" are being transported from the elevator belt as we speak
Fakes unfortunately do exist.
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Once again your right. "the war" stigmata lames the current generation of germans to discuss issues from a neutral point of view. Best example might be the german Green Party or the very left wing fascism and intolerance is not only a right wing problem nor only a german one. But now we are really going into politics...
And it is a shame that Holocaust (and also other genocides) are not thought in school (anymore properly). On the other Hand when I was in school I also felt a bit guilty to be german...even if i m a Part of the second Generation after the war....this also touches poltics and would be nice to talk about this with a Beer in the Pub
Back to BG... I tried the kaiseis in the nfb of my amp. Before I used Panasonic FC and then Muse KZ...both of them where more cold and analytic. Imo the Kaisei Sound definately better. But i never "heard" BG because I started this Hobby after 2006 and more seriously 5years back. A point where Bg allready hit record prices and with high prob for fakes.
But maybe it is all about Bias...http://sw1xad.co.uk/black-gate-vs-kaisei-capacitors-review/
And it is a shame that Holocaust (and also other genocides) are not thought in school (anymore properly). On the other Hand when I was in school I also felt a bit guilty to be german...even if i m a Part of the second Generation after the war....this also touches poltics and would be nice to talk about this with a Beer in the Pub
Back to BG... I tried the kaiseis in the nfb of my amp. Before I used Panasonic FC and then Muse KZ...both of them where more cold and analytic. Imo the Kaisei Sound definately better. But i never "heard" BG because I started this Hobby after 2006 and more seriously 5years back. A point where Bg allready hit record prices and with high prob for fakes.
But maybe it is all about Bias...http://sw1xad.co.uk/black-gate-vs-kaisei-capacitors-review/
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Kaisei are a lot more suited to my taste than BG. Always found those impressive after a short listen and always ended up replacing them after a while.
Not to mention the endless break-in period and their propensity to revert to an unbroken state if left idle. This based on experience with "standard" and "f". The N and NX were very different.
different THD ongoing investigations...http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/head...2-based-se-class-headamp-without-heat-39.html
might be also interesting https://linearaudio.nl/cyril-batemans-capacitor-sound-articles
or
might be also interesting https://linearaudio.nl/cyril-batemans-capacitor-sound-articles
or
http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/art_black_gate_story.shtml
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