Soongsc,
It isn't an easy proposition to make a full range driver. My cone driver actually has more high frequency output than I really want and I use a higher order xo to eliminate that upper frequency response. My personal approach to that would be a coaxial design. I have one of those in my design exercises but haven't pursued that option at this time. One day I plan on having a Klippel test system and then some things I can only comprehend on a theoretical basis I can actually see and measure. Simple acoustic testing can never show what you can see with actual laser interferometry. Kgrlee is my go to guy on those types of questions as he has been involved in that type of testing before there even existed the Klippel system. This does go back a long way and the first technical article I ever read on this was in the first edition AES speaker compendium.
It isn't an easy proposition to make a full range driver. My cone driver actually has more high frequency output than I really want and I use a higher order xo to eliminate that upper frequency response. My personal approach to that would be a coaxial design. I have one of those in my design exercises but haven't pursued that option at this time. One day I plan on having a Klippel test system and then some things I can only comprehend on a theoretical basis I can actually see and measure. Simple acoustic testing can never show what you can see with actual laser interferometry. Kgrlee is my go to guy on those types of questions as he has been involved in that type of testing before there even existed the Klippel system. This does go back a long way and the first technical article I ever read on this was in the first edition AES speaker compendium.
Yes, I understand that would be a physical requirement of a single cone covering the entire audio band, that is no secret. I use a soft TPU dust cap as it does have good damping properties so I don't create even more of those upper frequency resonances, it is more than just the cone we have to worry about, you do have output from all the moving surfaces including the surround and dust cap. The worst idea I see are the Whizzer cones, that idea has been beaten to death and can never do anything but produce resonant energy with the lack of any termination on the edge of the cone.
Well, did you actually read Lynn's review? If so, I still think that most DIYers who did-at least those with as little knowledge as I-would conclude that, as actually measured and listened to, Lynn found the 12" TT to sound a whole lot more than a so and so guitar speaker. At least in the critical midrange, which truly amazed him. You may dub me as just another "put who listens to the experts", but that's what i got out of what I read.
In any case, I've moved past the Tone Tubby. In fact, except, of course, for our beloved sealed GPA Altec 416s, I'm all but through with dynamic drivers. How's that for a surprise? And if Lynn happens to rightly fault my very next driver idea, then I'm going full speed ahead with Gary's Azurahorn/Radian build for my living room system.
Needless to say, the only thing that I'm not happy about is that I've yet to find anyone on this thread using solid state amps with their horns-not even Pass amps, which are by far the best designed as far as I’m concerned. Pass labs amps, and his First Watt amps in particular, are used extensively with Lowthers-but a breed of horn that I will certainly never risk pursuing (though I'd still like to hear at least once). And the very few here who have used Pass amps with their horn systems said they detracted from the sound and got rid of them.
But I’d rather not sell my First Watt J2 and F4 amps, at least until I build Gary's horns and use these amps to bi-amp my system with my First Watt B4 crossover. Then if the system sounds unsatisfying below 10kHz (where the Radian drivers roll off), I suppose I'll have to sell one or both of them and get a low power 2A3 amp for the horns (?) and/or 300B for the Altecs. I think it was Dick Olsher who said that a PX25 amp has all of the 300B midrange magic, plus it has a much extended HF range. Too bad they're way beyond my budget.
As for my 13 ft x 12 spare bedroom system-IF Lynn okays it for the music I'd play there-I'm going with his suggestion of a backhorn-loaded system. If their design can do down to 70Hz or so then I can cross them with one of my Rythmik subs. And I may have a few informed ideas-or at least some good question-about implementing that system. But the living room system is first on the agenda.
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One More Stop Before Hornville
Lynn, please check out my reply to Kindhornman and my pm when you can. Well, here it is, my last driver alternative proposal before I plunge into horn land (thank goodness I'll be safely among diyaudio.com's true horn system giants for guidance as I build Gary's horns):
Sadly, as many of us may know, Hawthorne Audio's Model 700 AMT is no longer sold by them, or apparently anyone, if it ever was-at least to the DIY community. As described here Hawthorne Audio - 700 Hz. AMT drivers, this baby did it all, including a recommended 700Hz crossover point , "....with usable response well below this".
The price posted their site was $368 each, well within my driver budget.
So with the Hawthorne 700 gone, can the Beyma TPL-150/H be bi-amped with the Altec 416s to perform as good as any two way horn system? PLEATED DIAPHRAGM TWEETERS TPL-150/H | Beyma
And if there's any better performing AMT (s) for the 416s, please let me know.
Thanks.
Greg
Lynn, please check out my reply to Kindhornman and my pm when you can. Well, here it is, my last driver alternative proposal before I plunge into horn land (thank goodness I'll be safely among diyaudio.com's true horn system giants for guidance as I build Gary's horns):
Sadly, as many of us may know, Hawthorne Audio's Model 700 AMT is no longer sold by them, or apparently anyone, if it ever was-at least to the DIY community. As described here Hawthorne Audio - 700 Hz. AMT drivers, this baby did it all, including a recommended 700Hz crossover point , "....with usable response well below this".
The price posted their site was $368 each, well within my driver budget.
So with the Hawthorne 700 gone, can the Beyma TPL-150/H be bi-amped with the Altec 416s to perform as good as any two way horn system? PLEATED DIAPHRAGM TWEETERS TPL-150/H | Beyma
And if there's any better performing AMT (s) for the 416s, please let me know.
Thanks.
Greg
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Oltos,
It was just that the Tone Tubby is intended as a guitar speaker, that is the intended end use. That tells me that it will have coloration, as I can tell you a normal cone driver that is low distortion just doesn't work for instrument amplification.
I have absolutely no problem with using a SS amp on horns, I've done it for years. Except for a few special vacuum tube amplifiers I consider them tone generators, the distortion of 2nd harmonics are what most tube lovers are really looking for, a euphonic sound mostly associated with tubes. I'm not saying that is what Lynn uses but that is the general situation.
I'm not sure which Radian drivers you are looking at but will tell you that many of the older 1" exit drivers have a real resonant problem at about 16Khz that requires a notch filter. My friend was one of the original engineers with that company, I have used them myself but my friend did the networks and added the notch filter to take care of that problem. There was another trick to modify the center section of the phase plug but I don't think I am going to recommend anyone try that without understand why it was done and how it was done. It involved creating a small pocket that was stuffed in the center of the phase plug.
As far as horns go I started in this business designing horns, I had a long since expired patent in horn design. I have just seen recently that about 20 subsequent patents reference my original patent. There are a lot of misunderstood aspects of horns that many don't understand but it would be an entire thread to talk about all of those things. Go for the horns if you have the room to use them. My avatar is a four way system with three horn loaded devices and a cone driven bass speaker for the bottom end.
Your Pass Labs amplifiers should be more than adequate for home use. Nelson is a very nice man and you can always ask him questions, he is very helpful. I still have horn loaded systems myself and would still design and build them for the occasional lover of that style of speaker. I still have many horns in storage that I have kept just for those occasions. I really do believe I was one of the people who brought horns back into the consumer speaker market even if I just showed others what was possible.
It was just that the Tone Tubby is intended as a guitar speaker, that is the intended end use. That tells me that it will have coloration, as I can tell you a normal cone driver that is low distortion just doesn't work for instrument amplification.
I have absolutely no problem with using a SS amp on horns, I've done it for years. Except for a few special vacuum tube amplifiers I consider them tone generators, the distortion of 2nd harmonics are what most tube lovers are really looking for, a euphonic sound mostly associated with tubes. I'm not saying that is what Lynn uses but that is the general situation.
I'm not sure which Radian drivers you are looking at but will tell you that many of the older 1" exit drivers have a real resonant problem at about 16Khz that requires a notch filter. My friend was one of the original engineers with that company, I have used them myself but my friend did the networks and added the notch filter to take care of that problem. There was another trick to modify the center section of the phase plug but I don't think I am going to recommend anyone try that without understand why it was done and how it was done. It involved creating a small pocket that was stuffed in the center of the phase plug.
As far as horns go I started in this business designing horns, I had a long since expired patent in horn design. I have just seen recently that about 20 subsequent patents reference my original patent. There are a lot of misunderstood aspects of horns that many don't understand but it would be an entire thread to talk about all of those things. Go for the horns if you have the room to use them. My avatar is a four way system with three horn loaded devices and a cone driven bass speaker for the bottom end.
Your Pass Labs amplifiers should be more than adequate for home use. Nelson is a very nice man and you can always ask him questions, he is very helpful. I still have horn loaded systems myself and would still design and build them for the occasional lover of that style of speaker. I still have many horns in storage that I have kept just for those occasions. I really do believe I was one of the people who brought horns back into the consumer speaker market even if I just showed others what was possible.
Oltos, it sounds like the bedroom system is mainly intended for background-level listening, with the occasional foreground-level increase in level - but definitely not full concert level playback. If you keep to those constraints, it greatly simplifies things. If you want full spectral range, then a 7~8" midbass with either a dome or ribbon tweeter is satisfactory. Check out the Zaph designs ... I'd go there first. If you really want to throw money at it, then consider the Skaaning Flex-Units.
If you can accept the limitations of fullrange, Planet10 has a whole range of interesting systems. The last time I talked to him on the phone, his personal favorites were the little Onken variants. These are pint-sized resistive-vent enclosures that use many of the clever ideas in the full-size Onken.
Fostex, and other drivers with whizzer-cones (Lowther, AER, et al), do nothing for me, but some people really love them. These drivers do not have flat responses, and attacking the problem with notch filters can leave the sound oddly flat and grayish-sounding. I would spend at least several hours auditioning these kinds of drivers before making the plunge. You might be charmed, or you might be repelled. There's no middle ground with fullrange drivers.
The living-room system is more ambitious and the scale of it depends on what you want dynamically. For my own system, I want concert-hall dynamics and low enough coloration that it is acceptable, and enjoyable, with classical music in a wide variety of styles. If it sounds reasonably close to an orchestra (and chorus) as heard from the 10th row, I'm satisfied. More than satisfied ... ecstatic!
But ... I have no interest in re-creating a multi-kilowatt rock concert at full tilt. The real thing is a 25-dB-rated ear-protector experience in a hot and sweaty crowd. I did that a few times back in the late Sixties ... no thanks!
Your goals are very likely to be different. If effortless dynamics at all levels are a requirement, then that points to horns for the MF/HF portion of the spectrum. Some in this forum would rightly point out that basshorns are required as well ... and that takes more space and additional system complexity (we're now talking about 3 and 4-way systems).
Stepping back just a little, the Beyma TPL-150 combined with either a 12" or 15" direct-radiator driver would be a serious studio-monitor system, and capable of 10 dB more headroom than nearly any audiophile speaker. That's nothing to sneer at ... 10 dB more headroom is a gigantic difference. When the $100,000 Magico or Wilson or Focal speaker is running out of steam, a large-format studio-monitor is effortless and ready for more.
The trick is getting smooth response in the octave or two around the crossover, and I am not volunteering for that task. This is where modern simulators and careful measurements come in. If you don't know how to do this, I would hire a professional that knows how to use the equipment, and with a proven track record of speaker systems that measure flat and have good subjective qualities.
If you can accept the limitations of fullrange, Planet10 has a whole range of interesting systems. The last time I talked to him on the phone, his personal favorites were the little Onken variants. These are pint-sized resistive-vent enclosures that use many of the clever ideas in the full-size Onken.
Fostex, and other drivers with whizzer-cones (Lowther, AER, et al), do nothing for me, but some people really love them. These drivers do not have flat responses, and attacking the problem with notch filters can leave the sound oddly flat and grayish-sounding. I would spend at least several hours auditioning these kinds of drivers before making the plunge. You might be charmed, or you might be repelled. There's no middle ground with fullrange drivers.
The living-room system is more ambitious and the scale of it depends on what you want dynamically. For my own system, I want concert-hall dynamics and low enough coloration that it is acceptable, and enjoyable, with classical music in a wide variety of styles. If it sounds reasonably close to an orchestra (and chorus) as heard from the 10th row, I'm satisfied. More than satisfied ... ecstatic!
But ... I have no interest in re-creating a multi-kilowatt rock concert at full tilt. The real thing is a 25-dB-rated ear-protector experience in a hot and sweaty crowd. I did that a few times back in the late Sixties ... no thanks!
Your goals are very likely to be different. If effortless dynamics at all levels are a requirement, then that points to horns for the MF/HF portion of the spectrum. Some in this forum would rightly point out that basshorns are required as well ... and that takes more space and additional system complexity (we're now talking about 3 and 4-way systems).
Stepping back just a little, the Beyma TPL-150 combined with either a 12" or 15" direct-radiator driver would be a serious studio-monitor system, and capable of 10 dB more headroom than nearly any audiophile speaker. That's nothing to sneer at ... 10 dB more headroom is a gigantic difference. When the $100,000 Magico or Wilson or Focal speaker is running out of steam, a large-format studio-monitor is effortless and ready for more.
The trick is getting smooth response in the octave or two around the crossover, and I am not volunteering for that task. This is where modern simulators and careful measurements come in. If you don't know how to do this, I would hire a professional that knows how to use the equipment, and with a proven track record of speaker systems that measure flat and have good subjective qualities.
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Fane Calossus for home use
Hi Lynn,
I have used the 18" Fane Calossus 18XB in 220 liters (app. 8 cft) vented cabs tuned to 30 Hz for some time in a home rig (not PA). The cabs were used for bass up to around 200 Hz. Then I had a chance to try out the now obsolete 18" JBL 2245H in the same cabs, and although the Fane's are nice drivers for sure, the JBL's are simply better for home use in my opinion. Subjectively, the JBL's appear to go an octave deeper with considerably more punch and are in addition more revealing - at least at low levels. I guess these differences have to due with the considerable looser suspension of the JBLs (much higher Vas). Just to pass on impressions before you eventually buy some drivers...
Best regards
Peter
Hi Lynn,
I have used the 18" Fane Calossus 18XB in 220 liters (app. 8 cft) vented cabs tuned to 30 Hz for some time in a home rig (not PA). The cabs were used for bass up to around 200 Hz. Then I had a chance to try out the now obsolete 18" JBL 2245H in the same cabs, and although the Fane's are nice drivers for sure, the JBL's are simply better for home use in my opinion. Subjectively, the JBL's appear to go an octave deeper with considerably more punch and are in addition more revealing - at least at low levels. I guess these differences have to due with the considerable looser suspension of the JBLs (much higher Vas). Just to pass on impressions before you eventually buy some drivers...
Best regards
Peter
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See? There's an example right there.
To get a little further into the transistor amps w/horns thing, the usual knock by vacuum-tube fans is that transistor amps are grainy-sounding, and speakers with higher efficiency make this much more obvious and harder to ignore. With typical low-efficiency (85~87 dB/meter/watt) audiophile speakers, you just turn up the wick and get the amp out of the noise, hash, and Class AB transition region (typically around 1 watt).
But ... not all transistor amps are grainy, metallic-sounding, or have a restricted impression of space. Home theater receivers, well, yes. It hardly matters for a movie soundtrack, and mass-market HT speakers are tuned for dialog intelligibility more than anything else (presence peaking is common).
The take-away is that amps often sound quite different on speakers of different efficiency. An amp that sounds quite satisfactory on a 87 dB/meter/watt speaker ... sometimes excellent, with crisp, snappy bass ... may not sound good on high-efficiency speakers. It may sound edgy and harsh, or weirdly tonally unbalanced (while measuring flat, of course). That's been my experience. I've heard a few that sound good on both types of speakers. Oddly enough, one was the Crown Macro Reference, a behemoth but also free of grain-n-grit and very natural-sounding. The new Benchmark amplifier has an interesting feedforward/feedback architecture with superb measurements at ultra-low levels (which is not easy).
So it can be done, it's just not that common, especially in the high-end audiophile market. The magazine reviewers seem to prefer amplifiers with odd tonal and dynamic characteristics, and then "taming" them with insanely expensive cables. That seems like a backward way of doing things. Better to have a good amplifier that's not picky about cables. (If an amplifier or linestage sounds radically different with a cable swap, that strongly points to RFI sensitivity and transient instability in the 1~20 MHz range. If the sound changes ... in any way ... with a power-cable swap, that says nothing good about the amp's power supply.)
My own tastes run to amplifiers with the lowest inherent distortion in the active devices, with the emphasis on keeping edgy-sounding high-order harmonics (5th, 6th, 7th, etc.) to a minimum. 2nd-harmonic is nearly inaudible except for the impact on IM distortion, which has an overall "blurring" effect on the sound. 2nd and 3rd mixed in a 4:1 ratio lends an agreeable "thickening" of the sound, but also degrades IM distortion, which blurs the sound when the music has a dense spectrum (symphonic, choral, etc.). That why manufacturers like to demo using music with a sparse spectrum, because IM distortion is difficult to hear. Put on something dense, though, and the sound can completely collapse into a roar of IM distortion. That's when I get thrown out of the demo room.
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Interesting that some people seem to think that listening to a rock recording should be like being pummelled by a mega junk PA setup. The latter are pure, unadultered poo, and could only be "enjoyed" by masochists; fortunately, the actual recordings have all the ingredients to allow for very high quality playback, and are a delight to listen to - of course, they put much higher demands on the quality of the playback chain, and this usually falls short of being adequate.
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...That should be quite an event, Gary. Please fill us in on their reactions!
Btw, due to the Radian 745NeoBe's HF range dropping off above 10kHz, I think you had originally added a RAAL Lazy ribbon? Apparently, however, you became dissatisfied with the sound, dropped it and then got the HF extension you wanted purely via EQ? Forgive my ignorance, but I was surprised that this was possible-or even desirable for overall sound quality reasons (i.e phase distortion, et al).
What kind of filter (s) did you achieve this with? Was it hard to design and implement? What's the overall response like now?
Oltos,
There seem to be two camps on bringing up the high end on a compression driver. First off the 1" exit drivers usually have better top end to begin with as the moving mass is less and the mass break point is higher. This is one reason I don't like the idea of 1.4" or larger exit compression drivers that have to cover the highest range.
You can eq up the high or you can shelf down the lower portion of the output making it look like you have boosted the top end. You give up some of the lower range efficiency that way but the reality is you usually end up having to pad down the output of the horn to match the dynamic cone driver so you can look at this as a simple way to do this and flatten the output. Just two different ways to look at the problem.
There seem to be two camps on bringing up the high end on a compression driver. First off the 1" exit drivers usually have better top end to begin with as the moving mass is less and the mass break point is higher. This is one reason I don't like the idea of 1.4" or larger exit compression drivers that have to cover the highest range.
You can eq up the high or you can shelf down the lower portion of the output making it look like you have boosted the top end. You give up some of the lower range efficiency that way but the reality is you usually end up having to pad down the output of the horn to match the dynamic cone driver so you can look at this as a simple way to do this and flatten the output. Just two different ways to look at the problem.
Gary and I have been exchanging privately on this topic several months ago, as we both are building "Beyond the Ariel" prototypes along the generous suggestions of Lynn. Like Gary, I tried to integrate tweeters with the 745NeoBe (including smaller RAALs) but could never get the whole system to sound right.
Fellow Ottawa DIYer Dave Dal Farra heard my prototypes and suggested trying passive equalization on the Radians. This must be an old trick, yet I am very grateful to Dave for bringing it to my attention.
It took me a while to get this equalization right, but after trial and error the Radian Be started showing its beautiful top end. Without equalization, this driver is fun to listen to, but it exhibits a bump in the response curve around 2 to 4 kHz (the presence region) that I found to be tiring over time. Once equalized, this driver is a different animal and truly shines, IMO. Is this a perfect solution? No. One downside is that the horn profile creates a sweet spot for listening. Personally I can live with this.
I suggested to Gary that he tried passive equalization and he liked it. It is too bad that I live far away for I would have really liked to listen to his speakers.
Many thanks to Lynn, Gary, Martin, Dave and you all for your generosity.
Regards - Pierre
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Pierre,
One of the things my friend did was to create some passive eq in the networks when I did my speakers with the Radian drivers. They were different drivers than you are talking about but I would expect that they are more similar than different. It took me a long time to understand what he was doing as there was not only a slope function in the network but also a notch filter for a peak at about 16Khz that annoying. It sounds like you have done some similar corrections in your passive filters.
One of the things my friend did was to create some passive eq in the networks when I did my speakers with the Radian drivers. They were different drivers than you are talking about but I would expect that they are more similar than different. It took me a long time to understand what he was doing as there was not only a slope function in the network but also a notch filter for a peak at about 16Khz that annoying. It sounds like you have done some similar corrections in your passive filters.
Pierre, thanks for jumping in. Also, many thanks for your generosity in sharing your experiences with me.
Although Pierre's horn and driver combination is the same as mine, his autoformer is different, as also is his crossover. (I had arrived at mine by starting with cookbook values, making measurements, changing values, measuring again, listening, burning up the phone lines with Lynn, and repeating the whole cycle as appropriate.)
Pierre told me how he accomplished the EQing of his Radian, but of course we knew the part values wouldn't apply in my case.
In following his approach, I installed some parts of arbitrary value, made measurements, changed the values a bit, measured again, and made note of the difference in response. Eventually I landed upon the combination that gave the flattest response so I soldered the parts in and set the system back up. Upon listening, I was very pleased with the results. The biggest improvements were in the areas of imaging and overall naturalness.
Gary Dahl
Although Pierre's horn and driver combination is the same as mine, his autoformer is different, as also is his crossover. (I had arrived at mine by starting with cookbook values, making measurements, changing values, measuring again, listening, burning up the phone lines with Lynn, and repeating the whole cycle as appropriate.)
Pierre told me how he accomplished the EQing of his Radian, but of course we knew the part values wouldn't apply in my case.
In following his approach, I installed some parts of arbitrary value, made measurements, changed the values a bit, measured again, and made note of the difference in response. Eventually I landed upon the combination that gave the flattest response so I soldered the parts in and set the system back up. Upon listening, I was very pleased with the results. The biggest improvements were in the areas of imaging and overall naturalness.
Gary Dahl
You definitely nailed what I want for the bedroom system! Thanks for the above suggestions. This a probably another one of my brilliant LOL questions, but if none of the above systems can get to between 35 and 30Hz, will there be trouble if I use a powered servo sub to get there? Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12G And will things get even worse if I have room for only one sub?
Btw, what do you think of this design for my bedroom + the same sub, if needed? Zephrin 46 or Prisma
And would most open baffle speakers (+ subs) be too small for my 13 ft x 12 bedroom? Because the OBs need to be at least 3 to 4 ft from the rear and sidewalls? If I'm wrong, please try to suggest the best OB types for my bedroom.
Actually, from what you said just said about the music you like to hear-on your living room system-it certainly seems that our goals are more alike than not. As for any kind of "multi-kilowatt" sounding inclinations on MY part, nothing could be further from the truth! For one thing, I am fanatical about protecting my from high SPLs-be it music or street noise-from moment to moment every day. And all of mine are 25 wpc Nelson Pass First Watt Class A amps (one SE the others PP, all direct coupled, low or zero feedback). In any case, with practically zero exceptions, there's never been anything remotely resembling the "head banging" "heavy metal" genre that I could stand to hear for an instant, much less have in my collection.
Thus, the only differences that I see between our situation and goals are that my living room is 18 ft x 14 and yours is probably much bigger.
How else could your ears possibly withstand "concert hall dynamics", which can-with a grand piano alone-easily reach 107db? Or even 110db or more? On the other hand, I believe that I did read at forums that users with amps designed like mine (or yours) had little trouble listening at much louder levels than when using cheaper amps and/or speakers. However, high SPLs are high SPLs, and I'd prefer not gambling with something as priceless as my hearing acuity for anything.
That said, if my ears cannot tolerate SPLs much above 83db at 11 ft in my 18 ft x 14 room, would building, say, Gary Dahl's two way horn system + my pair of 12" Rythmik subs be a mistake? If yes, how so?
Also, it's true that I don't listen to a whole lot of true classical music-not that I haven't heard lots of it that I thought was every bit as captivating as much of what I often listen to. (I just didn't grow up with much of it in my youth, so I am still fairly ignorant of "who did what". And, of course, it didn't help that we had zero gear with anywhere near the ability to properly reproduce orchestral music in any and all ways). And while, I'm hardly any kind of a musicologist, I have loads of soundtracks (select album tracks) that, while not classical compositions, are essentially orchestral works: John Williams, John Barry (James Bond), Nelson Riddle, Neil Hefti, Bernard Hermann ("North By Northwest), et al. Wouldn't you agree?
And aren't there some here who would also add to the orchestral category some of the very well known "pop symphonic" works-even if it's not their cup of tea? The best example-that immediately comes to mind, at this hour-is Brian Wilson's "Pet Sounds" album. Lush, full range, precise instrumentals with those dazzlingly complex and incomparable Beach Boys harmonies. I'll never be set up for it, but there's a surround sound DVD-A version of that album. Now that's something I'd like to hear on a system with that quad decoder (?) you invented!
So yes, the system must be fully capable of capturing every nuance extant in my orchestral music collection. Therefore, for my rather smallish living room, will I be able to perfectly achieve this goal with ease by building Gary Dahl's system + my pair of 12" sealed Rythmik servo subs?
OR will my 18 ft x 14 room size and my ears excessively limit the system's dynamic range?
If I understood your previous reply correctly on this subject, an AMT would be the only driver other than a horn that could work properly with the Altec 416s-IF and only if the AMT's low end response was sufficiently low enough to smoothly cross with the 416s?
The Beyma TPL 150 is rated down to only 1kHz, but I see that Beyma claims that the TPL150/h goes to 700Hz. However, unless I am misinterpreting the FR curve, it doesn't at all look like that AMT achieves this http://www.beyma.com/getpdf.php?pid=TPL-150/H
But if I'm wrong, how hard would it be to get good final system response and good dispersion if I bi-amp the TPL150/h (or another AMT you might suggest) with the 416s?
And if that two way system was successful, what might I be giving up going with it for my living room system (playing all manner of orchestral music), instead of the 416s in a proven two way horn system?