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Magnetar

Magnetar

Banned
Joined 2004
Lynn Olson said:
I would like to point everyone to what's going on over at Magnetar's thread.

Things have taken a very interesting turn, discussing both the B&C 6PEV13 and the 18Sound 6ND410 in a 300 Hz horn, paired with a 5X 10" woofer dipole array.

By getting the horn out of the way around 3 kHz, that sidesteps a lot of the typical "horn sound" when a horn is asked to cover the range from 1.5 to 15 kHz, as well as a lot of phase-plug troubles (non-uniform wavefront entering the horn) when compression drivers are used. Another appealing feature is the effective radiating area of the horn is similar to the radiating area of the open-baffle drivers - I can see using the 300 Hz horn with a 4X array of 12" drivers, for example.

Hmm - a quad array of mix-n-match Alnico+ceramic 12" Tone Tubby's, a 300 Hz horn with the 6ND410, and a double-high RAAL tweeter (which delivers an additional 2.5 dB at distances greater than 2 meters). Let's see now, no bi-amping required, efficiency somewhere around 103 dB/metre, a pretty simple 3-way system, hmmm .......
Click to expand...


Lynn,

I am trying to work with what I already have as far as drivers and horns. If it was from scratch I think 4 mid QTS 12's would be fine. I believe you should not use a typical prosound .2 - .4 driver down there, maybe .45 with a little eq - If you go over .8 it can still sound good (no eq) but gets 'woolly' sounding . For example the Eminence Alpha 15 - I see a lot of folks are using them open and my experience with it and the big 21" Madison ultra high QTS driver is they sound a bit slow and detached when used with a high quality mid and treble. The smaller .7 QTS drivers are a world better. I haven't looked but there are probably a few different HE upper QTS mid xmax tens or twelves out there. Try bass guitar speakers..! Look for woofers that don't get nasty above 1K, low pass them with a 4th order electronic crossover. You can still use a passive line level xover to the mid - Run simulations on the quartet and look at the excursion and power handling at 45-60 (probably your lower limit) cycles in a large (like 200 cubic foot) infinite baffle to get an idea what they will do on the open baffle when mounted low 'in room' - also remeber I high pass my bass..

For the mid the 18 sound driver should be awesome. I would however use a 250 flare horn. Any smaller and you probably want to cross over lower ( I do) and can't and any larger you will get beam and honk. The horn will 'break the rules' and will be shorter than what most horny's will recommend , that's OK - this is a mid horn - it will sound better.

Personally I like the treble to match the mid. Here I use the cheapo Dayton 1.8K conical round horn with 70 degree dispersion. The ribbon will be OK , I have tried to match a ribbon with a mid horn in the past and feel the higher you cross the better chance of success you will have. 8K or higher is probably best. I can't imagine finding a cone mid horn that will be usable beyond 3-4 k though.
 
Magnetar

Magnetar

Banned
Joined 2004
badman

badman

Member
Joined 2003
pothaudio.com
Re: Re: 12''

Magnetar said:



I think something more on the lines of .5 to .8 QTS and 98 db/w sensitivity - He is looking for high efficiency bass drivers not sub drivers, something with a net array sensitivity of 103 db or so at 50 hz mounted on a board

Maybe six of these - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-332

The top end is kinda funky though
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As long as you realize that they're not anywhere near 98dB in the relevant bandwidth, they look pretty okay.

Why can't we just go to a 3 point sensitivity spec for woofers, 50Hz, 100Hz, and 1kHz, infinite baffle anechoic measure, it'd sure help designers have valid info to compare.
 
Magnetar

Magnetar

Banned
Joined 2004
Re: Re: Re: 12''

badman said:



As long as you realize that they're not anywhere near 98dB in the relevant bandwidth, they look pretty okay.

Why can't we just go to a 3 point sensitivity spec for woofers, 50Hz, 100Hz, and 1kHz, infinite baffle anechoic measure, it'd sure help designers have valid info to compare.
Click to expand...


6 of them are in series parallel at 60 cycles is 98 db, in parallel (use 16 ohm woofers like i do and you are over 104 without room gain. Here are 6 of these in parallel (110 db/w - 104 at 60 cycles) - too low of an impedance!

This is one example that won't break the bank, not what I'd use

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


It's kind of BIG = LOL
 
Magnetar

Magnetar

Banned
Joined 2004
Norris Wilson said:
What about four of these per channel with a little EQ for a lower cost multi-amped OB?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-516s.pdf
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Four of those will do 120 db at 50 cycles before destruction- 95 db at 60 cycles without eq or room gain and be 102 db sensitive at 400 cycles - they'll need eq, good bass power is cheap

Four of these are better for this and cheaper

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/264-334.pdf

97 db at 50 cycles, 99 at 60, and 101 at 400 - less eq required

On sale for 40 bucks a piece..

SALE
 
mige0

mige0

Member
Joined 2005
members.aon.at/kinotechnik/DeepColor/DeepColor_clock.html
Hi

Lynn Olson said:
Mo' data mo' bettah.
Click to expand...


Just came across this page,

Reproduktory 5" + 6" + 8"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=49&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 10"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=50&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 12"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=51&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 15"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=52&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 18"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=53&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 21"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=54&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 24"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=55&Lng=CZ


Some have MLSSA CSD – disillusion guaranteed....
:D


Greetings
Michael
 
mige0

mige0

Member
Joined 2005
members.aon.at/kinotechnik/DeepColor/DeepColor_clock.html
Hi

Norris Wilson said:
What about four of these per channel with a little EQ for a lower cost multi-amped OB?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-516s.pdf
Click to expand...

SunRa said:


Actualy Mr. Lynn Olson measured and auditioned them and he was quite impressed. I saw the graph on his web-site... no usual guitar break-up there...
Click to expand...

Hard to believe that the prominent 2 kHz peak does not resonate.

Greetings
Michael
 
H

hasselbaink

Member
Joined 2006
re

mige0 said:
Hi




Just came across this page,

Reproduktory 5" + 6" + 8"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=49&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 10"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=50&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 12"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=51&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 15"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=52&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 18"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=53&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 21"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=54&Lng=CZ

Reproduktory 24"
http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=55&Lng=CZ


Some have MLSSA CSD – disillusion guaranteed....
:D


Greetings
Michael
Click to expand...


Very nice website. Good measurements! Some of the smaller B&C look very well behaved, the RFC too. Thanks!!!
 
augerpro

augerpro

Member
Joined 2006
somasonus.net/
Paid Member
Magnetar said:

Four of these are better for this and cheaper

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/264-334.pdf

97 db at 50 cycles, 99 at 60, and 101 at 400 - less eq required

On sale for 40 bucks a piece..

SALE
Click to expand...


Magnetar said:
Goldwood 10's

6 of these in series- parallel will be 100 db at 60 cycles

Look for a similar 10 (maybe a little lower fs and qts) at 16 ohm and run 5 or 6 in parallel - that's what works for me
Click to expand...

I tested members from both of these product lines, here: http://s139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/augerpro/Selenium 10PW3/
http://s139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/augerpro/Goldwood GW-1258/

Neither has impressive distortion at bass frequencies, and the Selenium has pretty high odd order in the midbass/lower midrange.
 
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