Thanks tubelab!
Yes, I share your opinion about bad contact between pins & sockets. First of all pins are very short and too thin to make the good contact possible. So another socket is needed (have an idea).
Anyway, not such a big problem to turn me aside from "fat lady".
BTW, what about your "dance with the devil (833A, GU-48)"?
Thanks dejanm for your extensive post!
Happy to hear that!
B+ = 280V? Not quite "on line" with original papers...
I've heard something between 140 to 180V.
Thanks soundbbrigade!
As mentioned above: B+ not higher as 180V (producer recommendation).
6S33 is a nice tube. It can perform very well, because of near ideal Output transformer. 600:8 Ohms is much easier and better do as a 10000:8 Ohms for a 211.
But, there are some hints you've got to consider.
First, don't use these China-junk sockets. The contact springs are made of cheap metal sheet as used for sardine-cans. The contact is bad and oxidizes fast. This gives always more resistance at the contact point.
Only use the ceramic ones from the russian military or better the authentic Johnson !
Another thing is, you need an appropriate driver stage because of the bigger Miller capacity.
I wouldn't go above 200V...definitly.
But there are designs using even 300V. Like that (and even without a cathode resistor ! Only fixed Bias
)
Regards, Simon
But, there are some hints you've got to consider.
First, don't use these China-junk sockets. The contact springs are made of cheap metal sheet as used for sardine-cans. The contact is bad and oxidizes fast. This gives always more resistance at the contact point.
Only use the ceramic ones from the russian military or better the authentic Johnson !
Another thing is, you need an appropriate driver stage because of the bigger Miller capacity.
I wouldn't go above 200V...definitly.
But there are designs using even 300V. Like that (and even without a cathode resistor ! Only fixed Bias
)Regards, Simon
The letter S in our alphabet looks like our C in the Cyrillic alphabet. Many of the letters look the same or just modified (like the backwards-R) but they are not. The old rockets all had CCCP which directly transliterates SSSR. This is unfortunate because it causes some bizarre mix-ups.
At any rate the 6S33 is designed for low voltage B+ regulation for tube digital and servo drive avionics.
At any rate the 6S33 is designed for low voltage B+ regulation for tube digital and servo drive avionics.
We Westeners normally use "C" for the Russian letter sounding like "TS".
I get confuzed when I see people mix Latin and Russian letters. The Russian version of 6L6, 6V6 and their own 6R3S are very often mixed as the 6R3S is written as 6P3C in Cyrillic and the 6L6 is called 6P3S (Western transcription).
I get confuzed when I see people mix Latin and Russian letters. The Russian version of 6L6, 6V6 and their own 6R3S are very often mixed as the 6R3S is written as 6P3C in Cyrillic and the 6L6 is called 6P3S (Western transcription).
6S33S-V AKA 6C33C-B
This has gotta be one of my favorite tubes....
Unlike what a lot of guys think, it is in fact a Very Very high quality valve....
A quick look at its internal construction will give you that idea. All internal parts are either rivetted, ferruled and welded construction with anti microphonic mountings at the top of cathodes and other features as is common on Russian tubes.
Differences in characteristics per section within the same envelope do not mean for a low-quality device....If you think of the absolute precision of the clearances of the cathode to grid wires whic is in the order of 0.2mm, any Tiny difference will give different characteristics, BUT the elect. differences are Listed as being around 10%--Thats Real precision when you consider the construction of tubes and the very close electrode structure. --10% of 0.02mm...How much is that??
Regardless as to whether it was designed intended for avionic use, (Which it Probably wasn't...) it is a very high quality Voltage-Regulator pass-tube, a job I'm sure it will do superbly
The issues come when it is asked to do something it wasn't really designed or ever envisaged to do, and by maybe guys unfamiliar with the three-titted monster's foibles.......
In a volt-reg pass applicaton, any changes in 'gain' or transconductance or any tendancy for 'runaway' over time is not an issue as the rest of the PSU driving the thing will monitor via the error amp and correct for etc.
So, How do we 'tame' the beast...?
A few simple 'rules' will give long life, and problem free, happy tubes...
1) The use of the Original Russian Ceramic, (Not the Bakelite brown ones) Sockets, with the Silver connections. These have strong steel spring 'assisters' to ensure the tube pins are firmly clamped.
2) When wiring up the sockets, Use 1mm guage Copper-wire from each Heater pin, and wrap it at least twice round each socket connection. Solder up with a good quality Silver-loaded solder
-If practicable in your application, best use two strands of 1mm wire.
Same applies to the other connections but the heater-pins are the problem areas if the above isn't done...
3) Allow at least 3 inches between a 6C33C and any other device on your chassis. Allow at least 4 inches between two 6C33C tubes.....
4) Where possible, mount the sockets in such a way as to allow free air flow, and ventilate the chassis around the sockets and tubes to promote good cooling.
5) The Heaters develop over 41 Watts of heat alone....Even though the tube has a P Diss. of 60W its best to keep the P.Diss to below 40W--Even then, there is 80W of heat to be 'disposed' of on just one 6C33C running at 2/3 of its full dissipation...Thats a Huge Amount of heat if you jam a couple of these too close together or other items on your chassis!
6)-And Probably THE MOST important--
Burn-In of these tubes is almost 'Mandatory' if you would like them to survive long into the 1000 hours range......
I have found that a good way is to apply Heaters Only for 24 hours, Then apply 70V-90 to its Anode, and draw the Max Current allowed in the Data-sheet, (600mA) for two hours, But Keep P.Diss Under 50W.--Control Current with a neg volts on the Grid... --After that, you're all set- You may want to use a table-fan to keep it cool while doing this
If you cant or don't have the equipment to pass any power through the tube apart from Heaters, Leave it just heaters for 48 hours. I havent had any failures with either method of 'Burn-In' or subsequent failures.
A LOT of guys recommend (As does the Data-Sheet.....) that +B should ONLY be applied after 90 seconds to allow the tube to fully warm up....
I have NEVER done this. Its Full +B at turn-on from stone-cold. Never had a failure or detrimental effects over the 5 years of my experimenting/use of this Amasing tube!
I have built both SET and OTL amps with this tube and have found as was said earlier that around 180-220V across the Tube (Between Cathode to Anode, Not the Circuit as in the case of Cathode-Bias) is its 'sweet-spot' It doesn't really seem to appreciate voltages much higher than this I have found....
The ONLY ever failure I had, was one tube from a Fleabay seller, straight out of the box, and with NO Burn-In procedure in my OTL--It failed by arc-over which took out the +B fuse....
This has gotta be one of my favorite tubes....
Unlike what a lot of guys think, it is in fact a Very Very high quality valve....
A quick look at its internal construction will give you that idea. All internal parts are either rivetted, ferruled and welded construction with anti microphonic mountings at the top of cathodes and other features as is common on Russian tubes.
Differences in characteristics per section within the same envelope do not mean for a low-quality device....If you think of the absolute precision of the clearances of the cathode to grid wires whic is in the order of 0.2mm, any Tiny difference will give different characteristics, BUT the elect. differences are Listed as being around 10%--Thats Real precision when you consider the construction of tubes and the very close electrode structure. --10% of 0.02mm...How much is that??
Regardless as to whether it was designed intended for avionic use, (Which it Probably wasn't...) it is a very high quality Voltage-Regulator pass-tube, a job I'm sure it will do superbly
The issues come when it is asked to do something it wasn't really designed or ever envisaged to do, and by maybe guys unfamiliar with the three-titted monster's foibles.......
In a volt-reg pass applicaton, any changes in 'gain' or transconductance or any tendancy for 'runaway' over time is not an issue as the rest of the PSU driving the thing will monitor via the error amp and correct for etc.
So, How do we 'tame' the beast...?
A few simple 'rules' will give long life, and problem free, happy tubes...
1) The use of the Original Russian Ceramic, (Not the Bakelite brown ones) Sockets, with the Silver connections. These have strong steel spring 'assisters' to ensure the tube pins are firmly clamped.
2) When wiring up the sockets, Use 1mm guage Copper-wire from each Heater pin, and wrap it at least twice round each socket connection. Solder up with a good quality Silver-loaded solder
-If practicable in your application, best use two strands of 1mm wire.
Same applies to the other connections but the heater-pins are the problem areas if the above isn't done...
3) Allow at least 3 inches between a 6C33C and any other device on your chassis. Allow at least 4 inches between two 6C33C tubes.....
4) Where possible, mount the sockets in such a way as to allow free air flow, and ventilate the chassis around the sockets and tubes to promote good cooling.
5) The Heaters develop over 41 Watts of heat alone....Even though the tube has a P Diss. of 60W its best to keep the P.Diss to below 40W--Even then, there is 80W of heat to be 'disposed' of on just one 6C33C running at 2/3 of its full dissipation...Thats a Huge Amount of heat if you jam a couple of these too close together or other items on your chassis!
6)-And Probably THE MOST important--
Burn-In of these tubes is almost 'Mandatory' if you would like them to survive long into the 1000 hours range......
I have found that a good way is to apply Heaters Only for 24 hours, Then apply 70V-90 to its Anode, and draw the Max Current allowed in the Data-sheet, (600mA) for two hours, But Keep P.Diss Under 50W.--Control Current with a neg volts on the Grid...
--After that, you're all set- You may want to use a table-fan to keep it cool while doing this If you cant or don't have the equipment to pass any power through the tube apart from Heaters, Leave it just heaters for 48 hours. I havent had any failures with either method of 'Burn-In' or subsequent failures.
A LOT of guys recommend (As does the Data-Sheet.....) that +B should ONLY be applied after 90 seconds to allow the tube to fully warm up....
I have NEVER done this. Its Full +B at turn-on from stone-cold. Never had a failure or detrimental effects over the 5 years of my experimenting/use of this Amasing tube!
I have built both SET and OTL amps with this tube and have found as was said earlier that around 180-220V across the Tube (Between Cathode to Anode, Not the Circuit as in the case of Cathode-Bias) is its 'sweet-spot' It doesn't really seem to appreciate voltages much higher than this I have found....
The ONLY ever failure I had, was one tube from a Fleabay seller, straight out of the box, and with NO Burn-In procedure in my OTL--It failed by arc-over which took out the +B fuse....
Expert help?
Hello, I can see by the content of the posts in this thread that many of you have a lot of experience. I need some help, I have bought
some tubes and want to build a dual mono amp as these tubes do not seem to be mainstream I need the assistance of someone with experience.
The tubes I have are:
4 x Tesla RD 200B (PDF available)
8 x RG 250/3000 http://www.trioda.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=-13&pos=28
I also have a Russian tube Amp that came out of russia before communism fell, it was sent for testing here in Ireland it is a powerfull amp 110 watt RMS with low distortion according to the test results,
I have been unable to listen to it because the output can be barely heard, any help on this would also be appreciated.
Thanks, Andrew...
Hello,
I can see by the content of the posts in this thread that many of you have a lot of experience. I need some help, I have bought some tubes and want to build a dual mono amp as these tubes do not seem to be mainstream I need the assistance of someone with experience.
The tubes I have are:
4 x Tesla RD 200B (PDF available)
8 x RG 250/3000 http://www.trioda.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=-13&pos=28
I also have a Russian tube Amp that came out of russia before communism fell, it was sent for testing here in Ireland it is a powerfull amp 110 watt RMS with low distortion according to the test results,
I have been unable to listen to it because the output can be barely heard, any help on this would also be appreciated.
Thanks, Andrew...
Acoustech:
The amp you have in your possession is propably a Priboi YM-75, a standard Priboi but with paralleled OP-tubes.
There has recently been a discussion on this amplifier with diagrams shared - check this out.
IF it is a Priboi, you can for instance swap the scrappy 6R3S OP-tubes with EL34.
PS. The fall ofsocialism. (A minor detail)
The amp you have in your possession is propably a Priboi YM-75, a standard Priboi but with paralleled OP-tubes.
There has recently been a discussion on this amplifier with diagrams shared - check this out.
IF it is a Priboi, you can for instance swap the scrappy 6R3S OP-tubes with EL34.
PS. The fall ofsocialism. (A minor detail)
For me the best tube I've ever heard in my workshop is the Russian 6P45S (6Ï45Ñ in cyrillic) link 1 link 2
This is beam power tetrode (ot pentode ?!), used for horizontal deflection in color TV's. Strapped as triode the Ri is about 350 Ohms. The sound is very nice - fast attack, good dynamics, "big" output power My amplifier is with this output tube and I like it very much. The disadvantages are two - hard to driving (small μ, big input capacitance) and anode is on tap on the top of the tube...
This is beam power tetrode (ot pentode ?!), used for horizontal deflection in color TV's. Strapped as triode the Ri is about 350 Ohms. The sound is very nice - fast attack, good dynamics, "big" output power
My amplifier is with this output tube and I like it very much. The disadvantages are two - hard to driving (small μ, big input capacitance) and anode is on tap on the top of the tube...
I have never noticed the difference between any output valves since all the stuff I built was different.
There was one exception. I built an amplifier with 845s running at about 1kV. I then decided to use triode-strapped 813s instead. At the time I was new to all this and nervous.
I switched on...
...and no current. I re-biased down from -140V or so to about -90V. The results were instantly a vast improvement on the 845s.
813s for ever - I wish I still had the bits to make some more amplifiers (even if I had the space).
7N7
There was one exception. I built an amplifier with 845s running at about 1kV. I then decided to use triode-strapped 813s instead. At the time I was new to all this and nervous.
I switched on...
...and no current. I re-biased down from -140V or so to about -90V. The results were instantly a vast improvement on the 845s.
813s for ever - I wish I still had the bits to make some more amplifiers (even if I had the space).
7N7
Beam Power Tetrode
Personal gripe here!
'Pentode' and 'Beam-Tetrode' are not equivalent terms:
The beam-forming/beam-confining plates are not a third electrode between the cathode and plate!
-----
* In receiving type beam tetrodes, beam confining plates are introduced outside of the beam region to constrain the electron beams to certain sectors of the anode which are sections of a cylinder. These beam confining plates also set up a low electrostatic potential region between the screen grid and anode and return anode secondary electrons from outside of the beam region to the anode. Wiki
-----
The Pentode relies on precise alignment of the control and screen grids to form electron 'beams" for the purpose of countering secondary-emission from the anode.
Personal gripe here!
'Pentode' and 'Beam-Tetrode' are not equivalent terms:
The beam-forming/beam-confining plates are not a third electrode between the cathode and plate!
-----
* In receiving type beam tetrodes, beam confining plates are introduced outside of the beam region to constrain the electron beams to certain sectors of the anode which are sections of a cylinder. These beam confining plates also set up a low electrostatic potential region between the screen grid and anode and return anode secondary electrons from outside of the beam region to the anode. Wiki
-----
The Pentode relies on precise alignment of the control and screen grids to form electron 'beams" for the purpose of countering secondary-emission from the anode.
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My instructor at Los Angeles Trade Technical College was an Englishman who knew all about thermionic-emission valves and "the kink".
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Seriously!
But now that we're here...
Triode connected sweep tubes. Doesn't really matter which one, but higher peak current tubes make more power with lower THD.
It is funny, I hadn't seen this thread until today when it was revived. I spent a lot of money on tubes to eventually come to the same conclusion. Although, even if I'd found this thread back then I probably still would have bought all the tubes to find out for myself...