The system is dissembled now (and has been for quite some time).
I tried several designs with it. As a more "normal" design, the one that was best was using a deep 8" cardboard tube that bisected the cabinet all the way to the back and was "open", but had plastic straws stuffed in the back (..the tube was about 20"s deep). (..my higher "Q" midbass 10" (16 ohm) drivers had the same loading.)
The last system was with the driver in a radial position "upward" and a Neo 8 above that similar to a Linkwitz Pluto. It looses about 8 db average in this position, but I had it lower than the listening height so it was more like 6 db.
I've also compared this driver with my FE166ES-R in several designs. Both exhibit substantial detail, but the Z0 is cleaner - better at reproducing sound sources where the ES-R is better at presenting hall sound. Not surprisingly the CSD of the Z0 is a lot cleaner to a lower pressure level at higher freq.s.
I've not tried that particular driver (..though I might have heard it, don't know), but have tried other pro midranges - particularly those with higher mms drivers.
The result was never as clear, and particularly when using an active crossover.
On the other hand you do get more bandwidth from just about anything other than the Z0 drivers. As a result you get more "warmth". (..though the obvious solution there is better integration with then next driver lower in freq..)
The lower mms (for a given SD) of aerogels are some of the most detailed drivers that use a cone that I've ever heard - sort of like a damped electrostat.
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back wave loading, but not a box
It must be a "Scott" thing
The system is dissembled now (and has been for quite some time).
I tried several designs with it. As a more "normal" design, the one that was best was using a deep 8" cardboard tube that bisected the cabinet all the way to the back and was "open", but had plastic straws stuffed in the back (..the tube was about 20"s deep). (..my higher "Q" midbass 10" (16 ohm) drivers had the same loading.)
The last system was with the driver in a radial position "upward" and a Neo 8 above that similar to a Linkwitz Pluto. It looses about 8 db average in this position, but I had it lower than the listening height so it was more like 6 db.
I've also compared this driver with my FE166ES-R in several designs. Both exhibit substantial detail, but the Z0 is cleaner - better at reproducing sound sources where the ES-R is better at presenting hall sound. Not surprisingly the CSD of the Z0 is a lot cleaner to a lower pressure level at higher freq.s.
It must be a "Scott" thing
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..could be!
Are you stuffing the pipe exit with drinking straws? (..deflex pad looks a little strange there.)
Pipe damping (to keep it from vibrating) is usually best with a pipe surrounding the chamber-pipe filled with silicone caulk, really depends on the thickness of the pipe though and if the exit is kept from serious (high amplitude) resonance (as with the drinking straws).
Are you stuffing the pipe exit with drinking straws? (..deflex pad looks a little strange there.)
Pipe damping (to keep it from vibrating) is usually best with a pipe surrounding the chamber-pipe filled with silicone caulk, really depends on the thickness of the pipe though and if the exit is kept from serious (high amplitude) resonance (as with the drinking straws).
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..could be!
Are you stuffing the pipe exit with drinking straws? (..deflex pad looks a little strange there.)
No straws. The inner circumference is lined with fiberglass, and the open space (tunnel) is filled loosely with daycron. The deflex pads are just placed there, because I had them in my hand and figured damping 1/2 of the upper/outer portion of the cylinder couldn't hurt.
You have arrived at a similar tactic as my own,
therefore you MUST be brilliant !!!
Some measurements of the 18Sound 12NMB420 plus discussion on using it with the Beyma TPL-150H from avsforum.
Two way stand mount with the Beyma TPL-150/H and the PHL 3430 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
This 12" has copper pole cap for Le=0.2, Mms=34g, curvelinear cone, 99db/watt efficiency, Fs = 53Hz with Qts = 0.29 creates sealed F3 of 130Hz. Xmax=4mm, AES power = 300W.
Two way stand mount with the Beyma TPL-150/H and the PHL 3430 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
This 12" has copper pole cap for Le=0.2, Mms=34g, curvelinear cone, 99db/watt efficiency, Fs = 53Hz with Qts = 0.29 creates sealed F3 of 130Hz. Xmax=4mm, AES power = 300W.
FWIW about a year ago I started a thread asking about 18 Sound 10NDA610, classified by 18 Sound design as a midrange driver, with very high sensitivity @ 103dB, very low Le @ 0.06mH , very strong motor (BL=20.3), nice frequency response, flat impedance. Seemed like a good match for the TPL to me. But the feedback I got was rather naaaaah...heavy cone (Mms=30g)...
Seemed good to me...
another 10" driver that might work is Faital Pro 10PR410.
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 10PR410
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 10PR410
thanks,
actually I have a nice tool for laminating plywood to curved shapes. soon I'll try to build a curved cabinet.
Thanks dude
actually BrunelAudio offers a 6-channels preamplifier/XOver which is a Hypex DLCP in fact. it works great.
yes I'm using three stereo amplifiers (6 channels in total) to power the speakers up.
actually I have not tried it ever. a 12" is not a good choice to cross to a driver like TPL-150H. beaming is a problem
Dave 123,
Cool speaker
Any measurement at listening position to show us?
How far are the speakers from oneanother and from the sweet spot please (chair or sofa)? I'm asking how is the spl transition at 3 meters or more between the 12" and the TPL150H around the XO...
cheers
thanks
4 meters apart and 4-5 meters away for sweet spot
now it's a new kid in the block brand. their website is not completed yet. the stereo amplifiers I bought is Odin model with NC500 in it you can check it here: link. I bought it 1300USD/each. Single piece solid 7075 aluminum chassis is flawlessly machined. internal wiring is UPOCC solid core wire. I'd say it is a bargain. they are manufacture monoblocks with NC1200 but it's not in my budget range. I bought the preamplifier (which I could not find it in their website) for 990USD! DLCP itself costs 500Euros that equals to 560USD. just look at the machining level of this preamplifier chassis:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
just my two cents
It would be SWELL if Beyma built a larger horn for the TPL150 which would sound great down to 1200Hz with a 80-90 degree horizontal coverage angle. A TD12M or 12P80Nd have very few SPL wiggles below 1300Hz.
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The TPL150H has coverage angles of 80º in the horizontal plane and 30º in the vertical plane. A midbass where the polar response approaches 80º at the selected crossover frequency would produce the smoothest controlled directivity polar response throughout the crossover range. "some beaming required"
Polar measurements of a 10" with a curvelinear cone like the JBL 2123H illustrate the crossover potential around 1600-1800Hz for both a smooth frequency response free from major cone SPL wiggles, and a matching polar response(beam width) around 80º .
Measurements for the Beyma 12P80Nd_v2 from the AVSforum show -6db SPL around +/- 40 degree polar response ... a close match to the TPL-150H.
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Form should follow Function.
BIG, DANGEROUS looking heatsinks are the COOLEST!.
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Not sure there is one right answer for this. In my mind it's a tradeoff based on preferences/priorities, and then personal preference comes into play and there can be multiple right answers. But there are also wrong answers!
To me the tradeoff is amongst sense of impact (higher at larger size), sensitivity, reduced lobbying (better at smaller size), and TPL behavior (some feel it has to be used above 2kHz to aboud the resonance, some don't).
Vapor Audio uses the TPL-150H with a TD10M, so curvilinear and 10", yet they xo at 1100Hz. The need for this low xo point is why he uses the TPL in this design and not Raals, like in his other designs. I discussed this with the designer. I'm sure others would likely xo this pair at a higher point, driven by own preferences, but this is a concrete data point from a commercial design.
Angelo swears by TPL plus 12p80Nd, xo at 1600Hz. The 12" is going into beaming by this time and there has to be lobbying going on, but Angelo prefers this to other combinations. He describes the sense of impact at almost matching his previous horns.
Of course a good 8" midrange will allow xo higher with reduced beaming, but at the expense of reduced sense of impact and likely less sensitivity (departing further from the TPL sensitivity).
In my mind the sweet spot for me is probably going to be in the 8 or 10". I think I can live with some lobbying as listening is done sitting down on a couch so listening area is not tall and not too wide. And my listening level is not ear splitting...85 to 90 dB SPL averaged weight C so maybe the TPL resonance at 1.8-1.9 kHz is not audible.
Both an 8 and a 10" dispersion can be made to match the TPL-150H in the 1500 tp 2000Hz region, so matching dispersion is yet another tradeoff to be chosen.
So to me it's about finding the most nuanced midrange driver in 8" or 10", with at least 98 dB sensitivity and rather flat frequency response to about 2.5/3kHz, flat impedance. Candidates so far are the Audax, 8pe21, 10NDA610, maybe a Tang Band W8.
If you want to try a 10 inch, just for fun and giggles, that will not set you back very much $$..............(but you would have to tailor the rise)
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-412-eminence-delta-10a-specifications-44326.pdf