IMHO, there is no such thing as the "perfect speaker system". If such an animal did exist, we would all own a pair already.
If you want proof of what I'm saying, look at how many commercial loudspeaker manufacturers there are. If anybody could build the "perfect speaker system", there would not be thousands of speaker companies.
DIY loudspeaker system design is a very complicated series of tradeoffs. Ask your, "What are my primary goals? Now, what am I prepared to sacrifice, to obtain the majority of those goals?"
Newbies need not be afraid to take the plunge. You WILL make mistakes ... we all have had our share of dismal failures. Nobody creates a masterpiece on their first try.
This forum has many experienced designers on it. Tap into that experience, learn from the mistakes of others, and share what you have learned. Then design the speaker system that you want to build and listen to.
Is the best loudspeaker design a myth? Not if you believe, like so many of us do, that we can design and construct speakers that sound as good as or better than any commercial systems.
Good luck, and Happy Holidays to all of you.
Larry
If you want proof of what I'm saying, look at how many commercial loudspeaker manufacturers there are. If anybody could build the "perfect speaker system", there would not be thousands of speaker companies.
DIY loudspeaker system design is a very complicated series of tradeoffs. Ask your, "What are my primary goals? Now, what am I prepared to sacrifice, to obtain the majority of those goals?"
Newbies need not be afraid to take the plunge. You WILL make mistakes ... we all have had our share of dismal failures. Nobody creates a masterpiece on their first try.
This forum has many experienced designers on it. Tap into that experience, learn from the mistakes of others, and share what you have learned. Then design the speaker system that you want to build and listen to.
Is the best loudspeaker design a myth? Not if you believe, like so many of us do, that we can design and construct speakers that sound as good as or better than any commercial systems.
Good luck, and Happy Holidays to all of you.
Larry
Speaking of cone diameter, I've noticed that most X" drivers really closer to about (X-1)" of actual cone? It seems to me that usually the advertised size of a driver includes the cone + surround + frame. (As an aside, is the surround considered to be part of the radiating surface?)
Also, a point of clarification: 50.2 sq. in. is the surface area for two 8" circles, not two 8" cones. Do we consider a speaker cone to be a flat circle as far as sound production is concerned?
Also, a point of clarification: 50.2 sq. in. is the surface area for two 8" circles, not two 8" cones. Do we consider a speaker cone to be a flat circle as far as sound production is concerned?
The advertized size is the whole driver iow. the chassis. Most manfactureres also note the surface area of the cone. For a typicall half roll rubber surround you calculate with half the surround. Measure the cone diameter and include one side of the surround.... or measure from "top to top" on the surround peaks each side to the cone.
Clear as mud?
/Peter
Clear as mud?
/Peter
My opinion...
Perfect speaker? Give me a break. High-end companies? BS. What a high-price and a "high-end" label (after all, what's the definition of high-end?) gaurantee is:
1. a lot of profit (say 500%?)
2. the best drivers, oxygen free coils, wonder cables, wonder caps, HDF, etc money can buy
3. the greatest looking finish you can imagine, possible a high WAF (she can think of them as furniture), although many would argue
4. a reasonable sound, but not enough to justify the price and the hype
To give an example. Most people would agree that bass-reflex is not the way to "high-end" sound but still most pricey commercial speakers are BR. Could someone explain why?
Perfect speaker? Give me a break. High-end companies? BS. What a high-price and a "high-end" label (after all, what's the definition of high-end?) gaurantee is:
1. a lot of profit (say 500%?)
2. the best drivers, oxygen free coils, wonder cables, wonder caps, HDF, etc money can buy
3. the greatest looking finish you can imagine, possible a high WAF (she can think of them as furniture), although many would argue
4. a reasonable sound, but not enough to justify the price and the hype
To give an example. Most people would agree that bass-reflex is not the way to "high-end" sound but still most pricey commercial speakers are BR. Could someone explain why?
I´m with Janne. I haven´t used C12 but C23 and it betters the soft domes I have heard. I went from Esotars to C23.
By pure physics the C23 have lower distortion in the low range due to bigger dome and more excursion while the C12 have slightly better dispersion in the top. Low distortion and the ability to cross low is virtues I value and choose bigger tweeters mostly becasue of this.
/Peter
By pure physics the C23 have lower distortion in the low range due to bigger dome and more excursion while the C12 have slightly better dispersion in the top. Low distortion and the ability to cross low is virtues I value and choose bigger tweeters mostly becasue of this.
/Peter
"so in other words your not sure"
In other words I´m am very sure.
I try for the third time, Esotar! If I meant Esotec I would have said Esotec... kind of makes sense to me.
I have Esotec D260 and Esotar T330D lying around, the T330D betters the D260 and both are bettered by C23.
Please let me know if there is someting I am not clear about and I´ll try to explain more in depth to you..
/Peter
In other words I´m am very sure.
I try for the third time, Esotar! If I meant Esotec I would have said Esotec... kind of makes sense to me.
I have Esotec D260 and Esotar T330D lying around, the T330D betters the D260 and both are bettered by C23.
Please let me know if there is someting I am not clear about and I´ll try to explain more in depth to you..
/Peter
If the finest driver manufacturers were to get together to create the right 'realisable' drivers (that is drivers which do not violate the laws of physicse) for the finest loudspeaker designer (I submit Tom Danley) then perhaps they could create the best loudspeaker.aliwakil said:
That is of course assuming that you were looking for the lowest absolute distortion, combined with the minimum amount of room interaction, for the purest sound, and you didn't care about the form factor
Minimum room interaction is not necessarily something that makes a good speaker. It depends on what you want to achieve.
Personally I am very found of high direct/room sound ratio though.
For example; if we want to reproduce a recorded voice as accurately as possible in a room... and get a result as if the person talks/sing in that room, (long sentence here) then we need one speaker only with a power response and dispersion that mimic that of a human (puh!).
IOW for this specific situation a relatively small or at least slim monitor using a wideband driver or a phase linear two way in a closed box.
The "perfect" speaker for putting you in the concert hall is a totally different design. And a speaker to recreate a live Metallica concert in your room again needs something different (most likely).
There will never be a "one best speaker". The only thing we can nail down that all speakers should have in common is low distortion (even in the time domain), low stored energy and "no" resonances + linear FR. The needed dynamic range and power response depends upon many things, some of which I mentioned above.
/Peter
Personally I am very found of high direct/room sound ratio though.
For example; if we want to reproduce a recorded voice as accurately as possible in a room... and get a result as if the person talks/sing in that room, (long sentence here) then we need one speaker only with a power response and dispersion that mimic that of a human (puh!).
IOW for this specific situation a relatively small or at least slim monitor using a wideband driver or a phase linear two way in a closed box.
The "perfect" speaker for putting you in the concert hall is a totally different design. And a speaker to recreate a live Metallica concert in your room again needs something different (most likely).
There will never be a "one best speaker". The only thing we can nail down that all speakers should have in common is low distortion (even in the time domain), low stored energy and "no" resonances + linear FR. The needed dynamic range and power response depends upon many things, some of which I mentioned above.
/Peter
I will probably get crucified for saying this. But, I think perfection in any man-made object is a myth. B&W spent many years and much money to create their vision of a perfect speaker. The result. A lot of critics loved them and some were very damning of them. Take any top-of-the-range speaker and you'll find some compromise, some over-riding philosophy which has prevailed to result in a speaker which answers some of the questions but not all.
Did you also know that zero is a mathematical abstraction?
Did you also know that zero is a mathematical abstraction?
Plus, no matter how well it measures or is specified, as soon as you add in the two major variables of the room (unless incorporated into the total design and then only to a lesser degree) and most especially, the human interface, the resulting individual interpretation of the presentation will override the 'theoretical concept' of the design.madinoz said:
Minimum room interaction? You're looking at an anechoic listening room... Not many people are fond of that experience.Mudge said:
If the finest driver manufacturers were to get together to create the right 'realisable' drivers (that is drivers which do not violate the laws of physicse) for the finest loudspeaker designer (I submit Tom Danley) then perhaps they could create the best loudspeaker.
That is of course assuming that you were looking for the lowest absolute distortion, combined with the minimum amount of room interaction, for the purest sound, and you didn't care about the form factor
By the way, with Sandia's stress-free amorphous diamond film production process, diamond-like carbon diaphragms may become a reality sometime soon.
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