Answering this question just means rehashing about 1000x other threads going on.
This is such a broad question, you need to better define what you are looking to get out of an amplifier. Do you want solid state, tube, class A, push/pull, single ended? There's a million different variances...
Do a search on the forum for Aleph X, gainclone, ZenV4, P3A, ...read these threads first.
This is such a broad question, you need to better define what you are looking to get out of an amplifier. Do you want solid state, tube, class A, push/pull, single ended? There's a million different variances...
Do a search on the forum for Aleph X, gainclone, ZenV4, P3A, ...read these threads first.
Magnetmaz,
He was asking for the BEST SOUNDING amplifier to build...Aleph 2 is the only one on this site that fills that bill
. While there are alot of other amp designs it doesn't sound like he is interested in building more than one...so ALEPH 2 would be my reccomendation for the best all around amp.
So far I have spent about 750.00 to build(actually overbuild) my pair. Most of the parts with the exception of Semis, and heatsinks was aquired surplus.
Mark
He was asking for the BEST SOUNDING amplifier to build...Aleph 2 is the only one on this site that fills that bill
. While there are alot of other amp designs it doesn't sound like he is interested in building more than one...so ALEPH 2 would be my reccomendation for the best all around amp. So far I have spent about 750.00 to build(actually overbuild) my pair. Most of the parts with the exception of Semis, and heatsinks was aquired surplus.
Mark
nonesense....he was asking it very generally as in:
"I'm completely new here...what should i build?"
( i'm inferring since he only registered in the last month)
and i'm sure that at least a hundred people would disagree with you that the Aleph 2 is the best, especially since the Gainclone and the AlephX seem to be the amp de jour ( and i'm not even going to bring up what the tube enthusiasts would say about this).
It all depends on what your object is, and there are a ton of criteria for choosing.... : Home theatre or just music, tube or solid state, frugal or price is no object, sensitivity of existing speakers as in how many watts do you need...is the amp for DJing clubs where you need 1500watts solid state, or will a 10watt SE tube amp suffice... class A...A/B...
Amplifier choice is all in the needs, and in what you've got to spend.......do don't automatically he wants an ALEPH2 when he wants to power a nightclub with hard house and jungle techno. He did say "and how much power" which would lead me to believe he wants alot of it
-Maz
edited out something that referenced another post : i'm a bottle of wine into the evening...forgive me
"I'm completely new here...what should i build?"
( i'm inferring since he only registered in the last month)
and i'm sure that at least a hundred people would disagree with you that the Aleph 2 is the best, especially since the Gainclone and the AlephX seem to be the amp de jour ( and i'm not even going to bring up what the tube enthusiasts would say about this).
It all depends on what your object is, and there are a ton of criteria for choosing.... : Home theatre or just music, tube or solid state, frugal or price is no object, sensitivity of existing speakers as in how many watts do you need...is the amp for DJing clubs where you need 1500watts solid state, or will a 10watt SE tube amp suffice... class A...A/B...
Amplifier choice is all in the needs, and in what you've got to spend.......do don't automatically he wants an ALEPH2 when he wants to power a nightclub with hard house and jungle techno. He did say "and how much power" which would lead me to believe he wants alot of it
-Maz
edited out something that referenced another post : i'm a bottle of wine into the evening...forgive me
It's kind of like having someone pick a girlfriend for you!
(...hmmmm, looking back over my choices, maybe that
wouldn't have been such a bad idea)
So, i'm going to say. Build the Zen V4!
Buy the boards and Q pack from Pass DIY
Download and read the project... in fact read all the Zen projects!
You'll probably spend anywhere between
$200 to 500 USD, depending on an infinite
number of variables.
how's that for an answer?
P.S. i'm not responsible for your audio nirvana, prices may vary,
your mileage may differ, add 7% tax if you're in the state of FL,
contents may shift during shipping, May cause drowsiness or
dizziness, this offer void after January 31, 2003.
void in PA, GA, ND, & SD.
(...hmmmm, looking back over my choices, maybe that
wouldn't have been such a bad idea)
So, i'm going to say. Build the Zen V4!
Buy the boards and Q pack from Pass DIY
Download and read the project... in fact read all the Zen projects!
You'll probably spend anywhere between
$200 to 500 USD, depending on an infinite
number of variables.
how's that for an answer?
P.S. i'm not responsible for your audio nirvana, prices may vary,
your mileage may differ, add 7% tax if you're in the state of FL,
contents may shift during shipping, May cause drowsiness or
dizziness, this offer void after January 31, 2003.
void in PA, GA, ND, & SD.
Whatever you pick, I say that IC power amps are some
kind of anethema to DIY. You can build discrete for just
as much trouble and cost, and you won't learn as much,
the sound won't really be as good, and your bragging
rights are diminished.
Personally, I was taken aback by the manufacturers who
have gone this route. What's this country coming to?!
kind of anethema to DIY. You can build discrete for just
as much trouble and cost, and you won't learn as much,
the sound won't really be as good, and your bragging
rights are diminished.
Personally, I was taken aback by the manufacturers who
have gone this route. What's this country coming to?!
It's strange how a year ago the national amp ICs were considered just for beginers and downright bad, I only heard negative things about them. Now all of a sudden they're the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Discrete is indeed more fun, also you can tailor the sound to what YOU want, with ICs you get the sound of the IC designer, it's not DIY, it's GSETDIFY (get someone else to do it for you) in my book.
Discrete is indeed more fun, also you can tailor the sound to what YOU want, with ICs you get the sound of the IC designer, it's not DIY, it's GSETDIFY (get someone else to do it for you) in my book.
Start with A good Simple Discrete HeadPhone Amp
But, I have to agree with Nelson:
If you want to be wiser and learn something
you should go Discrete.
There are many Not too complicated Amplifiers
out there.
Nelson Pass' Amplifiers are not Typical for Amplifiers (even if they work good)
----------------------------------------------
I would recommend you to build some ESP project.
Elliot is a VERY good Teacher -and the project are well documented
Start with this: Elliott Sound Products Power Amplifier Design Guidelines
And then goto Projects: Projects - Complete designs and ideas, with schematics and construction details
--------------------------------------------------------------------
halojoy - there is more to DIY - than Elliot and Pass
Gainclone or POWER-ICs can be good amplifiers.Nelson Pass said:Whatever you pick, I say that IC power amps are some
kind of anethema to DIY. You can build discrete for just
as much trouble and cost, and you won't learn as much,
the sound won't really be as good, and your bragging
rights are diminished.
Personally, I was taken aback by the manufacturers who
have gone this route. What's this country coming to?!
But, I have to agree with Nelson:
If you want to be wiser and learn something
you should go Discrete.
There are many Not too complicated Amplifiers
out there.
Nelson Pass' Amplifiers are not Typical for Amplifiers (even if they work good)
----------------------------------------------
I would recommend you to build some ESP project.
Elliot is a VERY good Teacher -and the project are well documented
Start with this: Elliott Sound Products Power Amplifier Design Guidelines
And then goto Projects: Projects - Complete designs and ideas, with schematics and construction details
--------------------------------------------------------------------
halojoy - there is more to DIY - than
Elliot and Pass 
Nelson Pass said:Whatever you pick, I say that IC power amps are some
kind of anethema to DIY. You can build discrete for just
as much trouble and cost, and you won't learn as much,
the sound won't really be as good, and your bragging
rights are diminished.
Personally, I was taken aback by the manufacturers who
have gone this route. What's this country coming to?!
IC power amps are best suited for installation under the seat, or in the trunk. I can't imagine why one would care to listen to this genre of amplifier....
Ah! I know, Nelson! One who has a early transistor machine from the early 70s mass market era! Remember that harsh "gnarly" sound?As for the manufacturers going with them, I was floored with the junk I saw at the convention center years ago....well, if they package them with a combination siren and flashlight, we'll know their country of origin.
Bob
Has anybody heared this amp? - http://www.pha.inecnet.cz/macura/pma1_en.html
I am afraid it beats the Aleph ( Uli - I have nothing against Aleph!).
I am afraid it beats the Aleph ( Uli - I have nothing against Aleph!).
KOY,
Its relatively easy to build a small, low power Class A amp such as this one!! Its not enough power for my Dynaudios though so its an amp I won't get to hear. How do you feel its better sounding than say the Aleph 3? Have you done a comparison between them? If so, how did you do the comparison and with what ancillary equipment? There are alot of DISADVANTAGES in using bi-polar devices for Class A such as this amp uses...... I have built a pair of Class A power Followers before that were about the same output power and I was not impressed at all with them, in fact have since scrapped them. Also all the distortion measurements are nice, but to me do not correlate to how it might sound in the least. What's in the power supply for this amp too? That has ALOT to do with how an amp sounds......
Mark
Its relatively easy to build a small, low power Class A amp such as this one!! Its not enough power for my Dynaudios though so its an amp I won't get to hear. How do you feel its better sounding than say the Aleph 3? Have you done a comparison between them? If so, how did you do the comparison and with what ancillary equipment? There are alot of DISADVANTAGES in using bi-polar devices for Class A such as this amp uses...... I have built a pair of Class A power Followers before that were about the same output power and I was not impressed at all with them, in fact have since scrapped them. Also all the distortion measurements are nice, but to me do not correlate to how it might sound in the least. What's in the power supply for this amp too? That has ALOT to do with how an amp sounds......
Mark
This is quite a typical answer from somebody who did not hear that and is supposing....
In fact we made quite a lot of listening tests. Sorry, but the simple Pass amps are distorting machines and everyone can hear it in case that he has a sound chain of high resolution. The sound of this amp can be compared to Bryston 4B-ST, of course that the power is lower, but the power is not any better for Aleph 3.
In fact we made quite a lot of listening tests. Sorry, but the simple Pass amps are distorting machines and everyone can hear it in case that he has a sound chain of high resolution. The sound of this amp can be compared to Bryston 4B-ST, of course that the power is lower, but the power is not any better for Aleph 3.
PMA,
Thats one of the reasons that people are building their own Alephs....so they can increase the bias way past where it is normally set. Raising the bias markedly decreases the distortion and really improves the overall sound quality alot....I'm afraid that you have not heard one that has been overbiased, so as far as I am concerned the statement of comparison to the Aleph 3 is meaningless. Firstly, you would have to compare it to a hand made overbiased unit as is typically done here, You would also have to compare it to a hand made Aleph X for that matter, that is a whole different story and you would be likely to find the distortion lower than anything mentioned in this thread.
Except for horm type systems, there are not many high resolution speakers an Aleph 30 can drive to sufficient levels. I dislike horn loaded systems and their coloration....I have heard many of them. I have also heard the Bryston amps...many are in use in Large format movie theatres....they are well built amps, and sound good.....but I would hardly consider them high end amps....but more industrial like the Crown, QSC, or BGW amps.
Mark
Thats one of the reasons that people are building their own Alephs....so they can increase the bias way past where it is normally set. Raising the bias markedly decreases the distortion and really improves the overall sound quality alot....I'm afraid that you have not heard one that has been overbiased, so as far as I am concerned the statement of comparison to the Aleph 3 is meaningless. Firstly, you would have to compare it to a hand made overbiased unit as is typically done here, You would also have to compare it to a hand made Aleph X for that matter, that is a whole different story and you would be likely to find the distortion lower than anything mentioned in this thread.
Except for horm type systems, there are not many high resolution speakers an Aleph 30 can drive to sufficient levels. I dislike horn loaded systems and their coloration....I have heard many of them. I have also heard the Bryston amps...many are in use in Large format movie theatres....they are well built amps, and sound good.....but I would hardly consider them high end amps....but more industrial like the Crown, QSC, or BGW amps.
Mark
You forget that PMA's amp does not require a lot "Tweaking" to perform well!!! it is just the nature of this circuit....
So why not just compare his amp with another amp running at the same bias level!?
Take an Aleph and throw all the components in and take PMA's and and throw all the components in!!!!! and then compare!
If i was a beginner i would be a little worried about start to match mosfet's for gain... mount and check, dismount and measure, mount and check again... instead of mount, check and run!!!
Just asking!! ... Mark....
by the way : nice tone you got
So why not just compare his amp with another amp running at the same bias level!?
Take an Aleph and throw all the components in and take PMA's and and throw all the components in!!!!! and then compare!
If i was a beginner i would be a little worried about start to match mosfet's for gain... mount and check, dismount and measure, mount and check again... instead of mount, check and run!!!
Just asking!! ... Mark....
by the way : nice tone you got
"If i was a beginner i would be a little worried about start to match mosfet's for gain... mount and check, dismount and measure, mount and check again... instead of mount, check and run!!!"
___________________________________________________
You don't match MOSFETS for gain in an Aleph!!!
Mark
___________________________________________________
You don't match MOSFETS for gain in an Aleph!!!
Mark
philosopher
Hi folks,
its kinda philosophical discussion, nobody listens to the
others.
BTW who the hell cares about distortion???
I dont care if its 0.1% or 0.01% you cant tell the difference
by listening.
My only judgement criteria is how that amp sounds and
compare a Bryston to an Aleph is like compare apples to
"Birnen" (dont know the english word
)
Lets everyone be happy with his private optimum and
let others theirs.
Uli
Hi folks,
its kinda philosophical discussion, nobody listens to the
others.
BTW who the hell cares about distortion???
I dont care if its 0.1% or 0.01% you cant tell the difference
by listening.
My only judgement criteria is how that amp sounds and
compare a Bryston to an Aleph is like compare apples to
"Birnen" (dont know the english word
)Lets everyone be happy with his private optimum and
let others theirs.
Uli
Hi Uli,
you would be very surprised, but loudspeaker distortion has a very different nature compared to amp distortion, that's why you are easily able to distinguish between amps with 0.003% and 0.3% THD. Especially IMD is of a great importance
But firstly you must have a possibility to compare ....
you would be very surprised, but loudspeaker distortion has a very different nature compared to amp distortion, that's why you are easily able to distinguish between amps with 0.003% and 0.3% THD. Especially IMD is of a great importance
But firstly you must have a possibility to compare ....
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