Member
Joined 2004
Hi,
I just stick with what Zaph is saying on his website:
I personally would never use a cored inductor in series with a speaker handling midrange. You could argue: but what if i use a very big and expensive cored inductor? Why worry about all the possible problems when you can avoid them using an air core? Air core is not that expensive compared with an Erse Super Q.
3.30 mH Erse super Q14 Awg 0.13 Ohm euro 31.54
3.30 mH Crosscoil 14 Awg 0.50 Ohm euro 39.60
Kind regards
Roland
I just stick with what Zaph is saying on his website:
I personally would never use a cored inductor in series with a speaker handling midrange. You could argue: but what if i use a very big and expensive cored inductor? Why worry about all the possible problems when you can avoid them using an air core? Air core is not that expensive compared with an Erse Super Q.
3.30 mH Erse super Q14 Awg 0.13 Ohm euro 31.54
3.30 mH Crosscoil 14 Awg 0.50 Ohm euro 39.60
Kind regards
Roland
Speaker Workshop
Hi Omni,
just a quick clarification, if its ok... IMO Speaker Workshop certainly has a very steep learning curve if 'one' wants to do measurements. But if someone knows all that stuff already its probably easy to set up the interface box and soundcard etc...they would already know the theory which is very well documented in Claudio Negro's site and another.
For doing response and phase calculations only, it is slightly quirky at first to get the circuit specified correctly but really quite straightforward when 'you' get the hang of it, and quickly becomes easy. It will model any type of circuit, with any topology and provide elaborate /
extensive options.. it is THAT good. You can customize any of the graphs for the most appropriate 'display' of axes. So, sure I would
encourage anyone to use it. If anyone needs help with it there's lot of resources.
Mate, I couldn't get SPLTrace going without your help!.. Haha... cheers, to all - grant
off topic ---> ... We want Frankie on your answering machine!!! lol ...
Oh and BTW, just google 'Terrigal Beach cam' for video, but summer has now gone to winter suddenly and the international sailboat races have finished. sadly. Are you snowed-in like last year?,
and lastly , if you ever spot a pair of ScanSpeak D3806/80000 on a very cheap clear-out price at Madisound or Parts Express..I'll snap them up, the cheque is in the mail to you! thanks!
Hi Omni,
just a quick clarification, if its ok... IMO Speaker Workshop certainly has a very steep learning curve if 'one' wants to do measurements. But if someone knows all that stuff already its probably easy to set up the interface box and soundcard etc...they would already know the theory which is very well documented in Claudio Negro's site and another.
For doing response and phase calculations only, it is slightly quirky at first to get the circuit specified correctly but really quite straightforward when 'you' get the hang of it, and quickly becomes easy. It will model any type of circuit, with any topology and provide elaborate /
extensive options.. it is THAT good. You can customize any of the graphs for the most appropriate 'display' of axes. So, sure I would
encourage anyone to use it. If anyone needs help with it there's lot of resources.
Mate, I couldn't get SPLTrace going without your help!.. Haha... cheers, to all - grant
off topic ---> ... We want Frankie on your answering machine!!! lol ...
Oh and BTW, just google 'Terrigal Beach cam' for video, but summer has now gone to winter suddenly and the international sailboat races have finished. sadly. Are you snowed-in like last year?,
and lastly , if you ever spot a pair of ScanSpeak D3806/80000 on a very cheap clear-out price at Madisound or Parts Express..I'll snap them up, the cheque is in the mail to you! thanks!
oops, I hope I'm not hijacking this thread?
http://www.claudionegro.com/
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/ntutorials.shtml
http://www.speakerworkshop.com/SW/Change Log.htm
there's also a couple of very practical links on how to use it, additional
to Omni's/Sreten's RJB site, but I'll have to look it up if your interested.
http://www.claudionegro.com/
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/ntutorials.shtml
http://www.speakerworkshop.com/SW/Change Log.htm
there's also a couple of very practical links on how to use it, additional
to Omni's/Sreten's RJB site, but I'll have to look it up if your interested.
Roland bios.....I agree with you that I would not put a cored inductor in the series circuit of a midrange and certainly if I could afford the space and money to buy 10-12 gauge air core inductors for series in the woofer, I would...... I did, however, use a steel laminate for the shunt coil in the midrange and my midrange response is smooth, even at high volumes .....hpolkerman, I am not familiar with the Zaphs SR71 speaker design.........Is it a 2 way or 3 way design?....I will have to check the website to familiarize myself with your project..........I hope you are on your way towards getting the right coils for your application............Grant..I will keep an eye out for those Scans..................Omni
roland bios said:Hi,
I just stick with what Zaph is saying on his website:
I personally would never use a cored inductor in series with a speaker handling midrange. You could argue: but what if i use a very big and expensive cored inductor? Why worry about all the possible problems when you can avoid them using an air core? Air core is not that expensive compared with an Erse Super Q.
3.30 mH Erse super Q14 Awg 0.13 Ohm euro 31.54
3.30 mH Crosscoil 14 Awg 0.50 Ohm euro 39.60
Kind regards
Roland
Roland,
Agree, as mentioned by Omni previously, I'll use the coil in shunt with the speaker in midrange. But I'll use the coil in series for the bass and so far I can not find 9mH air core coil with resistance equal or less than 0.7 ohm...(can't find the specs for the sledgehammer).
And yes, I'll use the air core if I can find one...
So I guess I have to go for some ferromagnetic core coil. Since I don't play the music loudly - just for near field listening, hopefully I won't have to worry about the saturation distortion.
And for the hysteresis loss, is it less pronounce in low frequency (freq cutt off around 400 Hz)?
Joshua
joshuajoshua said:
You'd need at least 13AWG wire for a 9mH coil less than 0.7 ohm (and they'd weigh 6lb each). 10AWG would give you 0.4 ohm and a 12 1/2lb package. Air coils start to get seriously large when you go into to the big values.
Once, when asking about the possible bad points of using 'iron-cored' vs 'air-cored' inductors I was given this response:
Joshuajoshua..........Check out the website northcreek music.com.......George Short is the owner of this company which put out speaker kits and he developed this enterprise dedicated to creating world class crossover components.........He has expanded into other areas in loudspeakers so I am not totally sure if they are developing anything new at north creek due to his new endeavors with ribbon technologies...however........They are still selling current inventory and also have some things on special....Last time I was on the site (last week) they still had coils for sale......George is a big proponent of air cored coils and has developed winding coils with 12 gauge, 10 gauge , and maybe even 8 gauge wire which all have low DCR that would probably suit your needs.......They are huge and probably expensive, but the website has a great deal of information I have found useful...hpolkeman, you might be interested to check out this site as well..............Since northcreekmusic.com is selling at clearance you may be able to find some deals on coils, who knows, maybe you might even be able to negotiate some prices with them.... If nothing else, the website is definately worth the visit, to gain a great deal of information and knowledge on crossover componentry.............Regards...........Omni
Attachments
Hi Roland,roland bios said:
Would you consider this woofer as handling midrange?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Member
Joined 2004
Crazyhub......Whatever the coil, that chart doesn't look too bad, but your midrange is gonna sound a bit too forward.......Roland Bio asked about a resistor in mid, which is what I think he's getting at....and I think he's got a good question.......You might also consider a larger series coil in the mid section, especially if you don't want to add too much more resistance to your circuit....Omni
I use a 1.5 ohm R in series with the middriver, that's not my point.roland bios said:
The blue line is the woofer so do you think this woofer is reproducing enough mid-fr to necessitate an air cored coil? Do you think a SuperQ 3.3mH will introduce a distorsion level that may mess things in the midrange, notably at average level (50 years old and yet clean ears)?
The middriver is an accuton C79, the woofer a C220NT6 and the tweeter a Focal Utopia-be; two months of intensive voicing stage ended up with these SW curves giving me a perfect in room balance. I use a 3-way series// filter, 2nd order electrical on woofer and 1st order highpass on middriver. I tested 3.9mH instead of 3.3mH and it's mainly a matter of // caps value; in fact the C220NT6 is much more able to handle lowmid fr than its brother C220T6 so I hadn't to cut it at lower fr.omni said:
edit: you told about the lowpass coil in series on the middriver! I tested larger values but the tweeter isn't able to corrrectly handle a lower cutoff fr than the present 2.7Khz, 2nd order.
omni said:
It's a 2-way with an 2,7mh Jantzen P-core 15Gauge with a DC resistance of 0.175Ohm for series bass. For the tweeter in parallel; a cross-coil from Jantzen as well, a 0.27mh RDC 0.16 16AWG copper foil.
Not at all that expensive, got all the parts from capsandcoils.
I'm building an adjusted version of Zaph's SR71:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/SR71.html
With some help from Jay_WJ's site:
http://www.geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/ER18RNX_2Way.htm
I've allready tried the setup and the crossover, and the sr71's sound allready great... But still a lot of work ahead of me (and too many projects still...)
Member
Joined 2004
crazyhub said:
Ah ok, now i understand your question! We are talking about the blue line in the graph. The woofer. I do not think you will have any THD problems when you use an Erse Super Q 3.30 mH. Thd will be well below hearing levels. But since you use the accuton pretty far into the midrange, some other effects may become interesting. Low microphonics for instance. A copper foil inductor will bring out some more details in the bas. Marc Heiligers did some research on coils, that you might find interesting, since his design also uses accuton drivers.
Milestones
It's up to your budget. A Erse Super Q will do fine, if you want to get the maximum out of the accuton bass you might want to try a copperfoil inductor or even a waxcoil. I do not have a soup/ avalon clone myself at home, so i depend on the reviews of my customers about the improvements copper foil inductors bring in the level off detail used in combination with accuton drivers. In soups, milestones, etc.
Kind regards
Roland
Yes Roland, my woofer plays at the border line between mid and bass ranges. I knew Marc's milestone site and his coils and caps measurements but they seem not to be of great utility for what I'm looking for. I mailed to Tony Gee to get his advice but I guess he will say me "chose the biggest wax or foil you can buy/find", haha.roland bios said:
Last night I saw a 8AWG pure silver-foil coil for 60€ on your site but I cannot find it again...
Member
Joined 2004
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