would it be possible for u to post links to these so that people could go look at them? Charlize + Monica sounds like a fanatasy I had in high school, god Charlize had a wicked set and Monica's **** was ... sigh
But beyond that I have no idea what this is.
That would actually make a cool thread The best budget hardware with links to ources, reviews, etc. It would be a bit time consumming but I know for a fact some of you have no life
Be a great way to contribute
But beyond that I have no idea what this is.
That would actually make a cool thread The best budget hardware with links to ources, reviews, etc. It would be a bit time consumming but I know for a fact some of you have no life
Be a great way to contribute
binarywhisper:
Monica and Charlize come from here: http://diyparadise.com/
That's only half the story though - it's always interesting to see how the cased, finished products look, along with the personal touches each builder puts in. DAC and amp porn FTW!
Monica and Charlize come from here: http://diyparadise.com/
That's only half the story though - it's always interesting to see how the cased, finished products look, along with the personal touches each builder puts in. DAC and amp porn FTW!
my favorite..
while I do a fair share of salvaging and come out with some really crazy finds, I can never count on it. so when building systems for other people that I charge a modest amount of money for, I try to do it with new parts. for me, with my background at cain and cain and limited student's budget this means fostex based.
I spent all summer trying to figure out what small system was the most killer while being easy enough to build and have interesting dimentions. after building several different old nagaoka designs and fostex reccommended designs I kept coming back to the same notion... It had to be actually small and make actually good bass. and I mean honest to god bass. people nowadays really only listen to the bass it seems. it pisses me off to no end because I look for tone and musicality of the system as a whole. we here (at diyaudio) seem to have a different idea as well of what is acceptable size and looks wise than the average person out there. folks do not understand what it means to hand make something. and for audio equipment to not be made of freakin plastic...
while I have a very special affinity for the fe103e... the limited bass response in anything other than a horn is very frustrating indeed. the horns for those are big. 107e... eh... not fast enough. bass reflex sucks. nice otherwise though. I never played with tls on these.
ff85k? good cantidate.. as a shameless plug, the cain and cain noogie is a very very special speaker indeed. super high speed. lacking a diagonal cutting ability in my home table saw, I had to stick to square designs with butt joinery. just like the abby, the voight aspect of the noogi is integral to the end performance. while I could make diagonals out of straight panels, in the end, I figured that I would not really improve on the noogi as a design for the ff85k, so I looked at other drivers.
fe83e? double bass reflex, a few horn designs here and there. it is nice. I like the tone of the 87e more, but some would make the call differently.
my favorite? building with humble table saw in my kitchen...
fe87e fostex recommended back horn. albiet with a sand chamber and some special wood...
$75 1 inch thick 10 ft tall panel of solid walnut (for the sides) this makes 4- 2 foot by 1 foot panels) I get local walnut cheap out here. it is all creepy and purple too.
$50 sheet of 15 mm birch ply (only need to use 1/4 sheet)
$60 for drivers
$2 glue
$3 sand paper
$15 deft laquer finish
$5 brush
$4 for binding posts
$1 cryoed magnet wire internal wiring
$2 cat5e speaker cable
$5 mini to mini interconnect
$17 sonic impact t amp (hastings has them cheap if you can find them)
$20 power supply
add Ipod playing high bit rate mp3, 250 dollars, and for $509 it is a compact system that with a few clamps, a meter stick, a soldering iron, someone to cut the wood and a bottle of glue the average joe who is somewhat motivated could build with no duct tape or screws that makes surprisingly great dynamics and totally disappears... did I mention that the walnut and birch 2 tone effect is to die for? I find the bass extention to be acceptable without a subwoofer for most music. the bass that is there though is really fun and bouncy and efficient. dancable even.
use a decent amount of power with these too. they will go quite loud and in many respects sound best when pushed hardest. that gives the highest dynamic range. they also do quiet very well.
while a swan is still my idea of the ultimate back horn, these are a wonderful stepping stone on that path. they have a little more of a monitor's tone.
similar to the swan, they are soooo high speed they seem to do all types of music well.
I find that in the big drivers, we try to make them sing...therefore tube amps of high refinement...
in the small drivers we try to make them dynamic - therefore power is necessary.
subtract the expensive walnut and it is way cheaper and easier to build.
it takes a while to figure out the resonance ~120hz to 150hz issue. it takes damping... and time, and patience. my goal was to get it down to a level where it was not distracting from the music. damp the throat... it is also seemingly room dependant, just like all other aspects of back horns.
the fe87e is a supertweeter (30000hz top response) which also happens to make a strong and very fast 80hz in a HORN. everything in between is coherent tonally and gives a feeling of authenticity and flatness. also of ease. there is no struggle seemingly. it is a total point source as well. they sound way way bigger and cleaner than they should. it has steep rolloff after 80hz which makes it quite easy to integrate with a subwoofer.
I have been considering using a large steel or brass washer that I would polish and laquer as a "brass adapter ring" of sorts to help with cabinet and driver frame damping/isolation/coupling... (I know these things are all different). though these little white drivers in the 2 tone cabinet alone are very cute... also to engineer somehow a movable wool "plug" for the throat to tune bass response on the fly without having to remove the driver.
add 120 bucks for a cheap dayton 10 inch sub from parts express, and 450 bucks for a norh se-9 and you have the ~1100 dollar high rise apartment system I built for my dad.
It is hard for my 206es-r system to keep up in many respects. especially when one considers the dollar sign.
Clark
while I do a fair share of salvaging and come out with some really crazy finds, I can never count on it. so when building systems for other people that I charge a modest amount of money for, I try to do it with new parts. for me, with my background at cain and cain and limited student's budget this means fostex based.
I spent all summer trying to figure out what small system was the most killer while being easy enough to build and have interesting dimentions. after building several different old nagaoka designs and fostex reccommended designs I kept coming back to the same notion... It had to be actually small and make actually good bass. and I mean honest to god bass. people nowadays really only listen to the bass it seems. it pisses me off to no end because I look for tone and musicality of the system as a whole. we here (at diyaudio) seem to have a different idea as well of what is acceptable size and looks wise than the average person out there. folks do not understand what it means to hand make something. and for audio equipment to not be made of freakin plastic...
while I have a very special affinity for the fe103e... the limited bass response in anything other than a horn is very frustrating indeed. the horns for those are big. 107e... eh... not fast enough. bass reflex sucks. nice otherwise though. I never played with tls on these.
ff85k? good cantidate.. as a shameless plug, the cain and cain noogie is a very very special speaker indeed. super high speed. lacking a diagonal cutting ability in my home table saw, I had to stick to square designs with butt joinery. just like the abby, the voight aspect of the noogi is integral to the end performance. while I could make diagonals out of straight panels, in the end, I figured that I would not really improve on the noogi as a design for the ff85k, so I looked at other drivers.
fe83e? double bass reflex, a few horn designs here and there. it is nice. I like the tone of the 87e more, but some would make the call differently.
my favorite? building with humble table saw in my kitchen...
fe87e fostex recommended back horn. albiet with a sand chamber and some special wood...
$75 1 inch thick 10 ft tall panel of solid walnut (for the sides) this makes 4- 2 foot by 1 foot panels) I get local walnut cheap out here. it is all creepy and purple too.
$50 sheet of 15 mm birch ply (only need to use 1/4 sheet)
$60 for drivers
$2 glue
$3 sand paper
$15 deft laquer finish
$5 brush
$4 for binding posts
$1 cryoed magnet wire internal wiring
$2 cat5e speaker cable
$5 mini to mini interconnect
$17 sonic impact t amp (hastings has them cheap if you can find them)
$20 power supply
add Ipod playing high bit rate mp3, 250 dollars, and for $509 it is a compact system that with a few clamps, a meter stick, a soldering iron, someone to cut the wood and a bottle of glue the average joe who is somewhat motivated could build with no duct tape or screws that makes surprisingly great dynamics and totally disappears... did I mention that the walnut and birch 2 tone effect is to die for? I find the bass extention to be acceptable without a subwoofer for most music. the bass that is there though is really fun and bouncy and efficient. dancable even.
use a decent amount of power with these too. they will go quite loud and in many respects sound best when pushed hardest. that gives the highest dynamic range. they also do quiet very well.
while a swan is still my idea of the ultimate back horn, these are a wonderful stepping stone on that path. they have a little more of a monitor's tone.
similar to the swan, they are soooo high speed they seem to do all types of music well.
I find that in the big drivers, we try to make them sing...therefore tube amps of high refinement...
in the small drivers we try to make them dynamic - therefore power is necessary.
subtract the expensive walnut and it is way cheaper and easier to build.
it takes a while to figure out the resonance ~120hz to 150hz issue. it takes damping... and time, and patience. my goal was to get it down to a level where it was not distracting from the music. damp the throat... it is also seemingly room dependant, just like all other aspects of back horns.
the fe87e is a supertweeter (30000hz top response) which also happens to make a strong and very fast 80hz in a HORN. everything in between is coherent tonally and gives a feeling of authenticity and flatness. also of ease. there is no struggle seemingly. it is a total point source as well. they sound way way bigger and cleaner than they should. it has steep rolloff after 80hz which makes it quite easy to integrate with a subwoofer.
I have been considering using a large steel or brass washer that I would polish and laquer as a "brass adapter ring" of sorts to help with cabinet and driver frame damping/isolation/coupling... (I know these things are all different). though these little white drivers in the 2 tone cabinet alone are very cute... also to engineer somehow a movable wool "plug" for the throat to tune bass response on the fly without having to remove the driver.
add 120 bucks for a cheap dayton 10 inch sub from parts express, and 450 bucks for a norh se-9 and you have the ~1100 dollar high rise apartment system I built for my dad.
It is hard for my 206es-r system to keep up in many respects. especially when one considers the dollar sign.
Clark
more pics
the drawing is just the pdf enclosure recommendation from fostex. look up the driver on madisound, then click on the link...
for this set, the only deviations I made are quite visible. sand chamber instead of hollow, and walnut side walls.
It occurred to me later on that the cost of the walnut would be exorbitantly high on say, the east coast for instance. out here, it is relatively cheap.
even then, I am not sure whether or not I would use it in an actual product for instance. the cost is still high, it is difficult to process (for me), eh, I guess it would depend how many would be made. while this particular build did some amazing things, I have never heard the specific recommended enclosure with the birch ply sidewalls and hollow chamber. as far as I would guess, Id say it is 85-90 per cent as good as my build. in the end though, I have no idea. it might be better. even though it does not look as cool or weigh nearly as much. I would venture to say, however, that the very high specific gravity of the walnut and mass loading of the sand helps stabilize the sound a good deal. next project on my list is to build a bone stock recommended enclosure, just to compare the two builds.
Clark
the drawing is just the pdf enclosure recommendation from fostex. look up the driver on madisound, then click on the link...
for this set, the only deviations I made are quite visible. sand chamber instead of hollow, and walnut side walls.
It occurred to me later on that the cost of the walnut would be exorbitantly high on say, the east coast for instance. out here, it is relatively cheap.
even then, I am not sure whether or not I would use it in an actual product for instance. the cost is still high, it is difficult to process (for me), eh, I guess it would depend how many would be made. while this particular build did some amazing things, I have never heard the specific recommended enclosure with the birch ply sidewalls and hollow chamber. as far as I would guess, Id say it is 85-90 per cent as good as my build. in the end though, I have no idea. it might be better. even though it does not look as cool or weigh nearly as much. I would venture to say, however, that the very high specific gravity of the walnut and mass loading of the sand helps stabilize the sound a good deal. next project on my list is to build a bone stock recommended enclosure, just to compare the two builds.
Clark
Attachments
yay!!! so I finally figured out how to post pictures. they really have to be pretty small.
alright, from now on, I will have pictures in my posts... I have alot of pictures...
the little horns are sitting between the large fe166es-r BIB. the BIB now has 167e drivers in them and supertweeters mounted on the side. gave up some speed in favor of bass quantity. I feel that the mid q drivers work better in this style enclosure based on trying out fe126, fe127, fx120, fe108esII, fe166ees-r, fe166e, fe167e in various sizes of BIBs. I have yet to try the fe168EZ. that is next on my large horn list.
Clark
alright, from now on, I will have pictures in my posts... I have alot of pictures...
the little horns are sitting between the large fe166es-r BIB. the BIB now has 167e drivers in them and supertweeters mounted on the side. gave up some speed in favor of bass quantity. I feel that the mid q drivers work better in this style enclosure based on trying out fe126, fe127, fx120, fe108esII, fe166ees-r, fe166e, fe167e in various sizes of BIBs. I have yet to try the fe168EZ. that is next on my large horn list.
Clark
Attachments
another recommendation
I know I am quite the fostex fanboy as of late, but the other recommendation I have
is the bk-16 kit available at madisound. albiet it is a more expensive set than 500 bucks. I remember going to ces a year back and hearing it there and concluding that it was a better speaker than 98 percent of ANY of the other hifi stuff in any of the other rooms. real dynamics. hard hitting bass. not as clean as the fe87e, but it operates in a different paridigm. this is a horn that I consider to work great. the fact that it is 600 bucks and easy to build is a slap in the face to the current high end paridigm... it is even cheaper without supertweeters. or at least with cheaper supertweeters... but honestly, I recommend the ones recommended for this setup. they integrate well.
disadvantages? limited extention in bass response. I did not find much of a problem with this though. what is there is very coherent musically. the looks are not to die for... they look very nice and humble in person though. I kindof like the effect of a nonassuming speaker that kicks butt in my own life though.
It seemed they had lead wrapped tungsten wires if I remember correctly. this alters bass response somewhat. similar to magnet/tranny wire. they also had a little room eq (I had them turn it off and it was a minor difference). they also had a little spot of black adhesive foam right on the tip of the center cap. as far as I could tell, this allowed the supertweeter and the driver to interact less by giving the full range a more steep roll off. also the angled stands are in fact important. I remember having them descend them onto the floor and the bass got real weird. so obviously, the fostex guys know how to make their systems sound good...
in all the rooms at the show, I simply found this system to be consistently enjoyable. it had a really cool PA quality to it. major power from such a small package. a feeling of high efficiency. the drivers sounded somewhat new and unbroken in. it seemed that there would be further refinement to come with nothing more than time. they had nice solid state stuff powering it (accuphase). I just kept coming back to hear them again and again. very well balanced. though not as much of a musical instrument as the cain and cain stuff in the end, especially in the midrange. more of a monitor tone.
I know I am quite the fostex fanboy as of late, but the other recommendation I have
is the bk-16 kit available at madisound. albiet it is a more expensive set than 500 bucks. I remember going to ces a year back and hearing it there and concluding that it was a better speaker than 98 percent of ANY of the other hifi stuff in any of the other rooms. real dynamics. hard hitting bass. not as clean as the fe87e, but it operates in a different paridigm. this is a horn that I consider to work great. the fact that it is 600 bucks and easy to build is a slap in the face to the current high end paridigm... it is even cheaper without supertweeters. or at least with cheaper supertweeters... but honestly, I recommend the ones recommended for this setup. they integrate well.
disadvantages? limited extention in bass response. I did not find much of a problem with this though. what is there is very coherent musically. the looks are not to die for... they look very nice and humble in person though. I kindof like the effect of a nonassuming speaker that kicks butt in my own life though.
It seemed they had lead wrapped tungsten wires if I remember correctly. this alters bass response somewhat. similar to magnet/tranny wire. they also had a little room eq (I had them turn it off and it was a minor difference). they also had a little spot of black adhesive foam right on the tip of the center cap. as far as I could tell, this allowed the supertweeter and the driver to interact less by giving the full range a more steep roll off. also the angled stands are in fact important. I remember having them descend them onto the floor and the bass got real weird. so obviously, the fostex guys know how to make their systems sound good...
in all the rooms at the show, I simply found this system to be consistently enjoyable. it had a really cool PA quality to it. major power from such a small package. a feeling of high efficiency. the drivers sounded somewhat new and unbroken in. it seemed that there would be further refinement to come with nothing more than time. they had nice solid state stuff powering it (accuphase). I just kept coming back to hear them again and again. very well balanced. though not as much of a musical instrument as the cain and cain stuff in the end, especially in the midrange. more of a monitor tone.
Player - Aspire DVD recorder with audio mod, open box w/o remote, better than my Denon 3520 = CAD 30
Amp - Own design simple MOSFET CCS SE, 1W, 1%THD = CAD 20 + parts in my junk box + a Tim lunch for my friend for the case
Speaker - FR125, ML, back load, folded horn = CAD 250
A total of about CAD 300.
Amp - Own design simple MOSFET CCS SE, 1W, 1%THD = CAD 20 + parts in my junk box + a Tim lunch for my friend for the case
Speaker - FR125, ML, back load, folded horn = CAD 250
A total of about CAD 300.
mmmmmmm walnut.
soooo yummmmy. such a great wood. it sounds so regal yet detached. without ego.
the finished cabinets are at my dad's place in seattle. Ill have him take some closeups some time. I never got around to extensively photographing anything but the construction process
Clark
soooo yummmmy. such a great wood. it sounds so regal yet detached. without ego.
the finished cabinets are at my dad's place in seattle. Ill have him take some closeups some time. I never got around to extensively photographing anything but the construction process
Clark
Attachments
The Holy Grail
Ok so last fall i was given a Quad 405 and 33, pretty good.
But since then i have been on the lookout for Quad's, and have been pretty lucky.
I have a 303 with another 33 that was given up on cause the stereo repair shop "could not fix it" It was working perfectly about 10min after it was on my bench. The only thing wrong was the mechanical linkage between the balance slider and the pot was out of adjustment.
Then i recieved a response to an add i posted online looking for quad stuff, the guy had a pair of Quad II's with the 22 and the FM tuner. Turns out he Knows my mom and yesterday he gave them to me even after seeing what they go for on ebay.
So for a grand total of $0 i have three of the best vintage systems made (depending on who you talk to) now i just need some ESL's
Ok so last fall i was given a Quad 405 and 33, pretty good.
But since then i have been on the lookout for Quad's, and have been pretty lucky.
I have a 303 with another 33 that was given up on cause the stereo repair shop "could not fix it" It was working perfectly about 10min after it was on my bench. The only thing wrong was the mechanical linkage between the balance slider and the pot was out of adjustment.
Then i recieved a response to an add i posted online looking for quad stuff, the guy had a pair of Quad II's with the 22 and the FM tuner. Turns out he Knows my mom and yesterday he gave them to me even after seeing what they go for on ebay.
So for a grand total of $0 i have three of the best vintage systems made (depending on who you talk to) now i just need some ESL's
Attachments
What a bunch of scores!!!!
I can't get excited about anything but the Quad IIs. The matching tuner & pre are worth hanging onto, just to keep them together. If you are actually going to listen to the pre, at least an independent power supply is called for.
One man's opinion -- I never really liked the 405, i did like the 303 (i sold a ton of them -- often with NAD3020s as pre-amps) but it is hopelessly outclassed by modern amps (althou i do know a fellow that completely transforms them. The 33 is cool-looking but not great sounding. I've owned at least a half-dozen 33s, and more than 2x that many 303s, never bothered with the 405.
If i were you, i'd let the 33/405 & 33/303 find new homes via eBay and use that to fund further enhancements in your hifi -- they have way more $$$ value than sonic value. The Quad IIs are keepers, even if just updated to stock performance (sure wish i had kept mine)
dave
I can't get excited about anything but the Quad IIs. The matching tuner & pre are worth hanging onto, just to keep them together. If you are actually going to listen to the pre, at least an independent power supply is called for.
One man's opinion -- I never really liked the 405, i did like the 303 (i sold a ton of them -- often with NAD3020s as pre-amps) but it is hopelessly outclassed by modern amps (althou i do know a fellow that completely transforms them. The 33 is cool-looking but not great sounding. I've owned at least a half-dozen 33s, and more than 2x that many 303s, never bothered with the 405.
If i were you, i'd let the 33/405 & 33/303 find new homes via eBay and use that to fund further enhancements in your hifi -- they have way more $$$ value than sonic value. The Quad IIs are keepers, even if just updated to stock performance (sure wish i had kept mine)
dave
Christmas and Birthday all in one week
I think someone likes me.
Today i picked up an NAD 7020 with Mirage sm2 bookshelfs and a technics SL-B2 TT with an intact ADC cartridge all for a total of $15 at a thrift shop
As well I found an add for a set of new JBL D130's with crossovers and tweeters in town here. Just waiting for a call back to see how much he wants as they were listed best offer.
If he wants more than i am willing to pay for them is anybody else interested?
I think someone likes me.
Today i picked up an NAD 7020 with Mirage sm2 bookshelfs and a technics SL-B2 TT with an intact ADC cartridge all for a total of $15 at a thrift shop
As well I found an add for a set of new JBL D130's with crossovers and tweeters in town here. Just waiting for a call back to see how much he wants as they were listed best offer.
If he wants more than i am willing to pay for them is anybody else interested?
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