I take it you abandoned the fence post idea if you're looking at 8's now?
Main downside in portability with those 8"ers is a pair of them comes to 10.4kg.
The other thing is that, unless you're running them as a subwoofer with a huge box then there's simply no point in porting them. Ports tuned high just give them a huge and undesirable peak.
Their sealed response for a pair in a 10 litre box is exactly what you need though. Technically you could drive 1200w or more into a pair of these without issue.
But they're not so efficient so you get quite a lot less than the alternatives for the same amp power.
Yellow line is the Daytons, grey line is the PHL 900ND, both with 600w input, both in 10 litre enclosures (but the PHL is ported).
At 300Hz the PHL has a 7.5dB gain on the Daytons (120dB vs 112.5).
The Daytons have 210 square cm SD vs 101 on the PHL, and at 600w they move 9mm, but the PHL being vented is seeing air move from both sides of the cone and moves 8.5mm, (which is a couple of mm past it's rated xmax but PHL rates their xmax conservatively). So it's only about 15% less air moved despite being 5"
And 2 of them are less than 2kg so it's properly portable.
Orange line is 20 litre vented, red line is 30 litre vented with the Daytons. Again with 600w. So there's a lot more potential for low frequency extension if that's preferred to SPL, at a tradeoff of a bigger box (bigger still and they can just keep going deeper) All of these plots match or exceed the SRM450 bass extension.
Main downside in portability with those 8"ers is a pair of them comes to 10.4kg.
The other thing is that, unless you're running them as a subwoofer with a huge box then there's simply no point in porting them. Ports tuned high just give them a huge and undesirable peak.
Their sealed response for a pair in a 10 litre box is exactly what you need though. Technically you could drive 1200w or more into a pair of these without issue.
But they're not so efficient so you get quite a lot less than the alternatives for the same amp power.
Yellow line is the Daytons, grey line is the PHL 900ND, both with 600w input, both in 10 litre enclosures (but the PHL is ported).
At 300Hz the PHL has a 7.5dB gain on the Daytons (120dB vs 112.5).
The Daytons have 210 square cm SD vs 101 on the PHL, and at 600w they move 9mm, but the PHL being vented is seeing air move from both sides of the cone and moves 8.5mm, (which is a couple of mm past it's rated xmax but PHL rates their xmax conservatively). So it's only about 15% less air moved despite being 5"
And 2 of them are less than 2kg so it's properly portable.
Orange line is 20 litre vented, red line is 30 litre vented with the Daytons. Again with 600w. So there's a lot more potential for low frequency extension if that's preferred to SPL, at a tradeoff of a bigger box (bigger still and they can just keep going deeper) All of these plots match or exceed the SRM450 bass extension.
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By the way if you hooked up that Kenwood sub indoors, it could be like -18dB outdoors due to room gain/room modes, 0.5pi corner loading on the sub.
So what 'almost kept up with' the Faitals when played indoors, could be literally (as far as human perception goes), 25% as loud, and as far as acoustic energy is concerned, you would need either 8x as much amplifier power, (or 2x as much amplifier power + 4 times as many speakers. Or 4x amp power + 2x speakers). Or to keep up perhaps 10-12x.
So what 'almost kept up with' the Faitals when played indoors, could be literally (as far as human perception goes), 25% as loud, and as far as acoustic energy is concerned, you would need either 8x as much amplifier power, (or 2x as much amplifier power + 4 times as many speakers. Or 4x amp power + 2x speakers). Or to keep up perhaps 10-12x.
Great info as usual Hemi. Fyi, I used the little 8" 100 watt Kenwood outside @ Darwells (yes that Darwells from Guy Fieri's Diners and Dives etc.)and sealed it. Worked fine but I was doing a single. My left hand bass split from my Keyboard actually sounded outstandingly good.
I very well may use the 5" speakers you mentioned. Because of the high price of Hypex I am now considering making a "suitcase woofer" large enough to hold a rackmount Inuke dsp. They are light as hell, sound pretty good and have a good dsp unit, capable of doing everything I need it to do. The one thing that puts me off is no digital in, which I may need at some point, and obviously the quality ofthe conversion.
Sooooo...looking around for lightweight rugged boxes with one dimension of 19" to build the "suitcase sub" I may, in fact, use a suitcase.☺
I very well may use the 5" speakers you mentioned. Because of the high price of Hypex I am now considering making a "suitcase woofer" large enough to hold a rackmount Inuke dsp. They are light as hell, sound pretty good and have a good dsp unit, capable of doing everything I need it to do. The one thing that puts me off is no digital in, which I may need at some point, and obviously the quality ofthe conversion.
Sooooo...looking around for lightweight rugged boxes with one dimension of 19" to build the "suitcase sub" I may, in fact, use a suitcase.☺
Haha fair enough. Sounds somewhat less than optimal for a sub enclosure but obviously that will depend on how well you 'skin and seal' it.
If you skin and seal it with cement it should be alright for example
Or LOTS of layers of cheapo chopped strand mat fibreglass and polyester resin. Or woven roving and epoxy if you're feeling flush. Will need to be something like that anyway and it'll be a labour of love for sure. No doubt a million more creative ways to do it but for strength/weight ratio it's hard to beat glass, and with the cheapo poly/csm it's not expensive at all. Just horrible to use and toxic as anything.Could try a papier mache build perhaps?
reinforced with a lolly-stick wire mesh.If you do consider the PHL's I can probably let you have them for a little over half the retail price + shipping. They're essentially unused as mentioned, but I do really need shot of them. They'll perform well in a larger enclosure too, and it's the weight to output ratio that'll be hardest to beat. Your options do open up a lot if the enclosure is larger but getting so much out of 2kg is unusual at any size. 5"ers are very tight as well, and if crossing a bit high up, perfect.
Subjectively from the brief test I ran of one of them crossed to a dome tweeter, I can honestly say one of my first thoughts when I heard it was "wow, this sounds like a live music speaker, it absolutely shines for playing live music through." (edit: I mean, I say live but of course I was playing a recorded signal through it, but I instantly imagined it being in a venue somewhere with a band playing through it. I **** you not) - which for me was a genuine disappointment because I mostly play electronic music (it sounds good enough with that to still be my favourite 5" for any music but it's not like I've heard enough high quality 5"ers for that to really mean anything).
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I take it you abandoned the fence post idea if you're looking at 8's now?
Main downside in portability with those 8"ers is a pair of them comes to 10.4kg.
The other thing is that, unless you're running them as a subwoofer with a huge box then there's simply no point in porting them. Ports tuned high just give them a huge and undesirable peak.
Their sealed response for a pair in a 10 litre box is exactly what you need though. Technically you could drive 1200w or more into a pair of these without issue.
But they're not so efficient so you get quite a lot less than the alternatives for the same amp power.
Yellow line is the Daytons, grey line is the PHL 900ND, both with 600w input, both in 10 litre enclosures (but the PHL is ported).
At 300Hz the PHL has a 7.5dB gain on the Daytons (120dB vs 112.5).
The Daytons have 210 square cm SD vs 101 on the PHL, and at 600w they move 9mm, but the PHL being vented is seeing air move from both sides of the cone and moves 8.5mm, (which is a couple of mm past it's rated xmax but PHL rates their xmax conservatively). So it's only about 15% less air moved despite being 5"
And 2 of them are less than 2kg so it's properly portable.
Orange line is 20 litre vented, red line is 30 litre vented with the Daytons. Again with 600w. So there's a lot more potential for low frequency extension if that's preferred to SPL, at a tradeoff of a bigger box (bigger still and they can just keep going deeper) All of these plots match or exceed the SRM450 bass extension.
Question about the sims: how come that the red and orange curves, both from a vented enclosure, go down with a 12dB/octave slope? One would expect that to be 24dB/octave.
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