vadim - that sounds like a cool device. is a linear taper going to work ok though? i would have thought you'd need an audio taper. i'll admit to being a complete retard when it comes to electronics though.
catapult - i'm not quite sure i understand what you want to do. i understand using the volume controls from multiple recievers. seems like ideally you could just buy some (surplus?) 6+ channel ganged pots somewhere.
i'm considering just building something with switches and resistors for voltage dividers, maybe 4 positions or so for each of the channels i need. this would get the input levels in the ballpark and then you could fine adjust with the preamp volume control. perhaps something like quiet, medium, loud, and stupid loud.
i have a dbx driverack pa. i don't have everything hooked up yet, but am getting close to having everything i need. on the back of that, there's a switch for the input level either -10dBV or +4dBu. I'm guessing that this changes what the A/D assumes as being full scale. the confusing part is then why the max input and output levels are listed as +20dBu. !?!?!?
so maybe there's more to it than i know of.
i'm wondering for those of you using the analog inputs with the behringer, which needs a +22 dBu input level (as i understand it), how on earth are you giving it a signal level that high? From what i know, +22dBu is 9.76 volts!!! my preamp will put out a max of 1 V. is everyone using transformers to step up the signal?
i feel a bit over my head with this stuff, but i'd probably be worse off trying to build and tweak a passive XO.
- Robert
catapult - i'm not quite sure i understand what you want to do. i understand using the volume controls from multiple recievers. seems like ideally you could just buy some (surplus?) 6+ channel ganged pots somewhere.
i'm considering just building something with switches and resistors for voltage dividers, maybe 4 positions or so for each of the channels i need. this would get the input levels in the ballpark and then you could fine adjust with the preamp volume control. perhaps something like quiet, medium, loud, and stupid loud.
i have a dbx driverack pa. i don't have everything hooked up yet, but am getting close to having everything i need. on the back of that, there's a switch for the input level either -10dBV or +4dBu. I'm guessing that this changes what the A/D assumes as being full scale. the confusing part is then why the max input and output levels are listed as +20dBu. !?!?!?
so maybe there's more to it than i know of. i'm wondering for those of you using the analog inputs with the behringer, which needs a +22 dBu input level (as i understand it), how on earth are you giving it a signal level that high? From what i know, +22dBu is 9.76 volts!!! my preamp will put out a max of 1 V. is everyone using transformers to step up the signal?
i feel a bit over my head with this stuff, but i'd probably be worse off trying to build and tweak a passive XO.
- Robert
Plug the outputs of your Driverack into the analog inputs of a multichannel receiver set to "analog passthrough" mode. The receiver provides the 6 amp channels (with analog volume trims for each channel) and IR remote master volume control for less than some people are spending on a simple manual 6-gang pot. You should be able to find something used with good sound quality and plenty of power in the $300-500 range.
Robert,
The audio taper is logarithmic. I purposely chose linear pots because I wanted to convert them into the audio taper with an external resistor. This resistor would also, as a much needed side-effect, force each pot to track with near perfect precision vis-à-vis other pots. I am going to have 8 dual pots in my master Volume control box.
The input of your dBx Driverack PA box has an internal amplifier. When you push a button this amp is activated and the signal gets boosted by 10 dB, if memory serves. This feature is a nice touch on the part of dBx designers. In fact I have the same feature in my DEQ2496 that I am using for the RTA. So, this internal amp becomes necessary if the maximum signal that you are driving into your dBx box is not high enough in amplitude. It is not important for most of pro gear, but for a consumer gear, like your CD Player or the output of your Sound Card, it is a must.
Here is what I do. My signal processing chain is as follows:
Source>Bryston BP-20 pre-amp> DEQ2496>DCX2496>additional analog signal processor>volume control>power amp>speaker
Since my system has a total of 8 channels, I use 3 stereo pre-amps for input channel selection and signal boost to about 10 Volts before the DEQ-DCX combination. It is electrically one pre-amp, as it powers up from a single transformer, but it is in three 1U boxes. The DEQ and DCX are connected digitally. The additional analog processor attenuates the signal after the DCX and also does the open baffle EQ for my front channel dipoles. The DCX does all other crossover functions. The multi-channel volume control is the last thing before the power amps. My sources are so far the CD Player, the HTPC’s Sound Card and the Sat receiver. I am looking into the SACD as we speak.
Anyway, the processing chain looks overly complex, but it is very functional and I really like the amazing flexibility of DEQ-DCX combination. I would keep it for just the RTA and time alignment capability along, but it does so much more.
Catapult,
I do not think that using multiple receivers is a good idea. The volume control is poorly implemented in particularly cheap units. Besides, I wanted to stay away from the VCA implementation or any additional A/D conversions, which is a preferred method for inexpensive multi-channel volume control.
Vadim
The audio taper is logarithmic. I purposely chose linear pots because I wanted to convert them into the audio taper with an external resistor. This resistor would also, as a much needed side-effect, force each pot to track with near perfect precision vis-à-vis other pots. I am going to have 8 dual pots in my master Volume control box.
The input of your dBx Driverack PA box has an internal amplifier. When you push a button this amp is activated and the signal gets boosted by 10 dB, if memory serves. This feature is a nice touch on the part of dBx designers. In fact I have the same feature in my DEQ2496 that I am using for the RTA. So, this internal amp becomes necessary if the maximum signal that you are driving into your dBx box is not high enough in amplitude. It is not important for most of pro gear, but for a consumer gear, like your CD Player or the output of your Sound Card, it is a must.
Here is what I do. My signal processing chain is as follows:
Source>Bryston BP-20 pre-amp> DEQ2496>DCX2496>additional analog signal processor>volume control>power amp>speaker
Since my system has a total of 8 channels, I use 3 stereo pre-amps for input channel selection and signal boost to about 10 Volts before the DEQ-DCX combination. It is electrically one pre-amp, as it powers up from a single transformer, but it is in three 1U boxes. The DEQ and DCX are connected digitally. The additional analog processor attenuates the signal after the DCX and also does the open baffle EQ for my front channel dipoles. The DCX does all other crossover functions. The multi-channel volume control is the last thing before the power amps. My sources are so far the CD Player, the HTPC’s Sound Card and the Sat receiver. I am looking into the SACD as we speak.
Anyway, the processing chain looks overly complex, but it is very functional and I really like the amazing flexibility of DEQ-DCX combination. I would keep it for just the RTA and time alignment capability along, but it does so much more.
Catapult,
I do not think that using multiple receivers is a good idea. The volume control is poorly implemented in particularly cheap units. Besides, I wanted to stay away from the VCA implementation or any additional A/D conversions, which is a preferred method for inexpensive multi-channel volume control.
Vadim
People doing it say the volume sync between receivers works just fine. There are no A/D conversions, just straight analog passthrough - input, VCA, power amp. Avoiding VCAs is a good theoretical consideration but that needs to be balanced against the channel sync problems. VCAs, theoretically, have the ability to sync the channels quite well when fed with a digitally-set control voltage - certainly better than the tolerances of passive components.
Two 2-way speaker control
The volume control problem could be solved using a
an 8-gang CT2 from DACT Audio. They recommend 10kOhm units for passive applications. Unfortunately dont have a completed products, so you would need to build it in yourself.
You should be able to get the unit from one of their U.S. distributors. But this 8-gang unit will only give you 4 channels good for 2-way speakers worth of volume control of the Behringers balanced outputs.
http://www.dact.com/html/newsletter.html
The volume control problem could be solved using a
an 8-gang CT2 from DACT Audio. They recommend 10kOhm units for passive applications. Unfortunately dont have a completed products, so you would need to build it in yourself.
You should be able to get the unit from one of their U.S. distributors. But this 8-gang unit will only give you 4 channels good for 2-way speakers worth of volume control of the Behringers balanced outputs.
http://www.dact.com/html/newsletter.html
Here's a really neat idea for slaving multiple Digital Pots from a single master potentiometer.
Seems a good idea for slaving a number of DS1666 chips (or similar).
www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Print.cfm?ArticleID=2531
Chris Morriss.
Seems a good idea for slaving a number of DS1666 chips (or similar).
www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Print.cfm?ArticleID=2531
Chris Morriss.
Finishing phase 1
Hi,
I'm just finishing the final adjustments of my old coaxial speakers -now tri-amped. It took me more than a week to arrive to something better than the original pasive crossover. And I had a preliminary problem with the short delay feature in the Behringher (anyone using it?)
Would it be better to include all the information/screen dumps on this thread or begin a new one? What do you think?
cheers
Ric
Hi,
I'm just finishing the final adjustments of my old coaxial speakers -now tri-amped. It took me more than a week to arrive to something better than the original pasive crossover. And I had a preliminary problem with the short delay feature in the Behringher (anyone using it?)
Would it be better to include all the information/screen dumps on this thread or begin a new one? What do you think?
cheers
Ric
in my humble opinion, you should start a new thread.
i just spent the weekend getting stuff together with a dbx driverack pa. it was frustrating as hell at first, but eventually i got stuff sorted out and am really happy with the results so far. i was just doing some initial testing/comparing/listening stuff for midrange drivers. i'm going to start my own new thread to show that stuff at some point in the near future.
- Robert
i just spent the weekend getting stuff together with a dbx driverack pa. it was frustrating as hell at first, but eventually i got stuff sorted out and am really happy with the results so far. i was just doing some initial testing/comparing/listening stuff for midrange drivers. i'm going to start my own new thread to show that stuff at some point in the near future.
- Robert
Re: Finishing phase 1
I'm using it with no problems at all - Actually the delay is why I got the unit - along with overall versatility.
I didn't try the auto-set feature for delay, I just set it manually.
I differ with bardorf9 on starting a new thread - basically I would say DCX 2496 stuff should remain in this thread.
However if you're talking a lot of info - it may well be better, unless you think it germaine to the thread. If it's mostly setup and stuff that someone that doesn't own one might be interested in, probably would be better in this thread.
Either way that suits you ought to suffice _grin_
Did you ever try any of the suggested mods I sent you a while back?
Regards
Ken L
Ricren said:
I'm using it with no problems at all - Actually the delay is why I got the unit - along with overall versatility.
I didn't try the auto-set feature for delay, I just set it manually.
Ricren said:
I differ with bardorf9 on starting a new thread - basically I would say DCX 2496 stuff should remain in this thread.
However if you're talking a lot of info - it may well be better, unless you think it germaine to the thread. If it's mostly setup and stuff that someone that doesn't own one might be interested in, probably would be better in this thread.
Either way that suits you ought to suffice _grin_
Did you ever try any of the suggested mods I sent you a while back?
Regards
Ken L
Re: Finishing phase 1
Regarding the delay function here's a tip for a new user: I was adjusting the crossover with a PC running the software provided by Behringer. it is primitive but it works. The problerm was that I couldn't make the short delay/ phase function work. After some time discovered that you have to go to the previous screen (long delay) and check the "on" boxes. And only after that, the short delay/phase is engaged.
The auto adjust function actually works. This is surprising, bearing in mind the cost of this device.
I was considering some of the mods. What I actually did was two things 1-Add bypassing caps all over and 2-Feed the analog circuits with a linear power supply but I really couldn't find a sonic difference at that time, so I connected the thing as standard again. You know, I had the URGE to listen to the monitors tri-amped with the crossover, so I relegated the device mods for a future tiime.
Now that the monitors are adjusted and up and running, will see if I can find the time to do something with it. (I have two units, the second is for another place and is still in the box!-Not enought time!).
Anyway, this thing sounds nice. (AES input-full resolution adjusted).
cheers
Ric
Ken L said:
Regarding the delay function here's a tip for a new user: I was adjusting the crossover with a PC running the software provided by Behringer. it is primitive but it works. The problerm was that I couldn't make the short delay/ phase function work. After some time discovered that you have to go to the previous screen (long delay) and check the "on" boxes. And only after that, the short delay/phase is engaged.
The auto adjust function actually works. This is surprising, bearing in mind the cost of this device.
I was considering some of the mods. What I actually did was two things 1-Add bypassing caps all over and 2-Feed the analog circuits with a linear power supply but I really couldn't find a sonic difference at that time, so I connected the thing as standard again. You know, I had the URGE to listen to the monitors tri-amped with the crossover, so I relegated the device mods for a future tiime.
Now that the monitors are adjusted and up and running, will see if I can find the time to do something with it. (I have two units, the second is for another place and is still in the box!-Not enought time!).
Anyway, this thing sounds nice. (AES input-full resolution adjusted).
cheers
Ric
My experience is that vol pots (the electronic ones on the behringer) are NOT sufficient, they only have a +/- 15dB range, less if the various bands need different levels. Also, at high atten and gain levels, the sound gets worse.
I'm using 30dB inline attenuators on the behringer outputs, but I have efficient speakers. 20dB att should also work.
Jan Didden
I'm using 30dB inline attenuators on the behringer outputs, but I have efficient speakers. 20dB att should also work.
Jan Didden
Just to let you know
I just discovered this very interesting thread.
Some time ago I posted the results of my evaluation of the DCX2496 in this thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=30351 .
If you are interested you could see on my homepage http://freerider.dyndns.org/anlage/ueberblick.htm how I interfaced the DCX2496. The text is in german but there are a lot of pictures and links.
Charly
I just discovered this very interesting thread.
Some time ago I posted the results of my evaluation of the DCX2496 in this thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=30351 .
If you are interested you could see on my homepage http://freerider.dyndns.org/anlage/ueberblick.htm how I interfaced the DCX2496. The text is in german but there are a lot of pictures and links.
Charly
Fellas,
FYI. There's a forum over on Yahoo devoted strictly to DCX2496 discussion.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DCX2496/
Davey.
FYI. There's a forum over on Yahoo devoted strictly to DCX2496 discussion.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DCX2496/
Davey.
@ oehlrich
Hi Charley,
great job well done! I read interested your homepage activating the Quadral Vulkan.
I´m using also a M Audio 2496 soundcard for testing with CAMS32 - an alternative program to HobbyBox. I´m inviting you for discussing your Behringer DCX2496 and Thel poti solution with us in German DIY forums. Before I put the links to your homepage I hope you are at home due to the fact that in Bavarian summer vacations starts now.
German DIY discussion groups:
http://www.audiomap.de
http://www.audiodiskussion.de
For mail contacts please use my mail adress in members list.
RogerCl
Hi Charley,
great job well done! I read interested your homepage activating the Quadral Vulkan.
I´m using also a M Audio 2496 soundcard for testing with CAMS32 - an alternative program to HobbyBox. I´m inviting you for discussing your Behringer DCX2496 and Thel poti solution with us in German DIY forums. Before I put the links to your homepage I hope you are at home due to the fact that in Bavarian summer vacations starts now.
German DIY discussion groups:
http://www.audiomap.de
http://www.audiodiskussion.de
For mail contacts please use my mail adress in members list.
RogerCl
Hi All,
I will admit that I have not been following this thread. I will be getting a dcx unit here shortly and want to know if anyone has found a digital amp/receiver that has enough inputs to power the speaker channels needed. If you want to do a 3-way then of course 6 inputs are needed.
Thanks for any cheap solutions given,
wasser
I will admit that I have not been following this thread. I will be getting a dcx unit here shortly and want to know if anyone has found a digital amp/receiver that has enough inputs to power the speaker channels needed. If you want to do a 3-way then of course 6 inputs are needed.
Thanks for any cheap solutions given,
wasser
contact with other Germans in DCX-Projects
Hallo oehlrich,
Hi "charly" I am now enregisterd in this helpfull, excellent forum, I enjoyed as a "Reader-only" since some months.
I am also in an active-Loudspeker-project with the Behringers DCX and DEQ 2496. Also with nearly the same Isophon speakers as you ( PSL 385/400 GJW and PSM 120/alu, but other Tweeters) , but Project is a CB-Solution (about 80 litres) .
You did post that everybody is invited to visit you in Erlangen and hear his solution. For the moment - far away from willling to cruise to Erlangen instantly, I would like to get some exchange of Ideas and perhaps some help with my project.
I am also German and I live not far away - though I am working in France (Champagne) - so how can I contact you?
An other opportunity ( if you are not interested in direct contact) is, to post some commentaries in the following german thread, crowded with germans, who are planning similar projects and have already enjoyed your first post here and your Homepage:
http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=71&thread=1079&back=&sort=&z=1
perhaps you will enjoy to participate also in this forum (i would be happy)
Thanks a lot !
Dirk (enjoying the best of Germany and France)
Hallo oehlrich,
Hi "charly" I am now enregisterd in this helpfull, excellent forum, I enjoyed as a "Reader-only" since some months.
I am also in an active-Loudspeker-project with the Behringers DCX and DEQ 2496. Also with nearly the same Isophon speakers as you ( PSL 385/400 GJW and PSM 120/alu, but other Tweeters) , but Project is a CB-Solution (about 80 litres) .
You did post that everybody is invited to visit you in Erlangen and hear his solution. For the moment - far away from willling to cruise to Erlangen instantly, I would like to get some exchange of Ideas and perhaps some help with my project.
I am also German and I live not far away - though I am working in France (Champagne) - so how can I contact you?
An other opportunity ( if you are not interested in direct contact) is, to post some commentaries in the following german thread, crowded with germans, who are planning similar projects and have already enjoyed your first post here and your Homepage:
http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=71&thread=1079&back=&sort=&z=1
perhaps you will enjoy to participate also in this forum (i would be happy)
Thanks a lot !
Dirk (enjoying the best of Germany and France)