The inexpensive 12" Peerless SLS woofers work really well in Ripoles. In fact; the SLS 12 is my all-time favorite $75 woofer.
I regret to report that the Peerless SLS 12 and XLS 12 woofers are no longer available at Parts Express without a 100 quantity min-buy. I called Parts Express about this and was told that the manufacturer (Tympany) imposed the 100-qty min-buy, not Part Express. Apparently; these woofers are being phased out but I don't see any comparable replacements for them on Tympany's website.
The discontinuance of these woofers seems non-sensical to me-- rather like Logitech discontinuing their Transporter streamer.
If anyone is interested in doing a group min-buy; count me in for ten.
I regret to report that the Peerless SLS 12 and XLS 12 woofers are no longer available at Parts Express without a 100 quantity min-buy. I called Parts Express about this and was told that the manufacturer (Tympany) imposed the 100-qty min-buy, not Part Express. Apparently; these woofers are being phased out but I don't see any comparable replacements for them on Tympany's website.
The discontinuance of these woofers seems non-sensical to me-- rather like Logitech discontinuing their Transporter streamer.
If anyone is interested in doing a group min-buy; count me in for ten.
They are not being "phased out" by Tymphany. Parts Express has decided not to stock them, as sales have been too slow to justify investing in the quantity needed to get the discount they require to make it profitable.
Money and space cost money. A group buy, and a subsequently popular design could get them back in stock, but unfortunately it is a circular sort of process, a design cannot become popular without drivers, unless it is special enough to get folks excited(and do a group buy to 'prime the pump').
Money and space cost money. A group buy, and a subsequently popular design could get them back in stock, but unfortunately it is a circular sort of process, a design cannot become popular without drivers, unless it is special enough to get folks excited(and do a group buy to 'prime the pump').
I'm just reporting what I was told by the sales rep at Parts Express. The remaining North American distributors are Digikey, Madisound and Solen Electronique in Canada. Madisound and Solen don't show the SLS 12 available, and Digikey shows it available with a min-buy quantity of 100.
However; I found a company in Europe (TLHP) who had SLS 12's in stock and I purchased 6 of them today.
I'm building several subs for some audio buddies who liked mine, and I had already cut the wood pieces to fit the SLS dimensions so I'm really glad I found another source for the woofers.
Mine are shown below:
However; I found a company in Europe (TLHP) who had SLS 12's in stock and I purchased 6 of them today.
I'm building several subs for some audio buddies who liked mine, and I had already cut the wood pieces to fit the SLS dimensions so I'm really glad I found another source for the woofers.
Mine are shown below:
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Beautiful! They look like a prettied up Visaton Petit Orgue!(I'd love to see measurements facing both ways-Visaton goes one way, Pass et al the other)
In the US, Simply Speakers actually has some of the early, Nomex, version.
As a sub, about the same as the later version, but nicer as a regular woofer(don't know how many they have, though).
In the US, Simply Speakers actually has some of the early, Nomex, version.
As a sub, about the same as the later version, but nicer as a regular woofer(don't know how many they have, though).
Offhand; I don't know of an inexpensive 18" woofer that's suitable for a Ripole. Most woofers of that size are pro types, optimized for a relatively small vented cabinet (i.e. stiff suspension, small X-max, low QTS); whereas, I think drivers optimized for open baffles would be a better fit. I've read that the Eminence Beta 15's work OK in a Ripole, even though they would not be optimum. With a DSP crossover, you can make almost anything work, optimum or not.
Another potential issue with a Ripole that large is the chamber resonance, which is rather loud. The chamber resonance in my 12" woofer Ripoles occurs above 200Hz, and I'm crossing them in at 65 Hz using a 24db filter slope, so as to avoid exciting that resonance.
In a Ripole sized for 18" woofers; the chamber resonance would occur at a significantly lower frequency, could be problematic and/or limit the usable bandwidth. I suppose you could notch out the resonance with a parametric EQ but it's better to avoid it altogether.
Another potential issue with a Ripole that large is the chamber resonance, which is rather loud. The chamber resonance in my 12" woofer Ripoles occurs above 200Hz, and I'm crossing them in at 65 Hz using a 24db filter slope, so as to avoid exciting that resonance.
In a Ripole sized for 18" woofers; the chamber resonance would occur at a significantly lower frequency, could be problematic and/or limit the usable bandwidth. I suppose you could notch out the resonance with a parametric EQ but it's better to avoid it altogether.
thank you for the help,
I do know of someone from France who has had amazing success with a 24 inch Fane Colossus Studio driver that he used in a Ripole , but unfortunately that driver is no longer made. I've read quite a few reviews by other French Audiophiles who have had the chance to stop by and listen to his system that uses the 24 inch Ripole Subwoofer , and interestingly the comments are extremely positive.
I do know of someone from France who has had amazing success with a 24 inch Fane Colossus Studio driver that he used in a Ripole , but unfortunately that driver is no longer made. I've read quite a few reviews by other French Audiophiles who have had the chance to stop by and listen to his system that uses the 24 inch Ripole Subwoofer , and interestingly the comments are extremely positive.
Hi , well I was planning on dual 18" Ripoles..... We have a fairly large living room 30' x 17' x 12' ( high ) , which has a very long hallway leading that opens into it .... the hallway is 6' x 26' x12' high and has other openings and doorways ..... and the living room has a 10'w x 12'high opening into the formal dinning room and then a wide doorway into the kitchen which good sized, and also has 12' ceilings .... and two other large doorways that lead out into other open rooms - - it's a big space to fill and not very many doors that can be closed - LOL .....
- and "sometimes" - I like to get loud with 70s and 80s rock, (it's for brief periods) ...... but maybe it is overkill, but I like very clean Bass -
- and "sometimes" - I like to get loud with 70s and 80s rock, (it's for brief periods) ...... but maybe it is overkill, but I like very clean Bass -
BTW; I did finally find a source for the Peerless SLS 12" woofers in Europe (link below). I just bought six of them at $96 each, including shipping. https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-peerless-sls-p830669-8-ohm-12-inch.html
I suppose the best source for modeling a Ripole would be the inventor; Axel Ridthaler. I've not contacted him myself but I hear that he offers a Ripole design service, for a fee. Unless you speak German, you would need to use Google Translator to communicate.
Mr. Ridtahler's business contact info:
Phone: 0721 82 7433
Email: info@ridtahler.de
Web: www.ridtahler.de
To build my Ripoles; I just used the following guidelines posted in the subwoofer forum:
Area of front chamber opening should be 1/3 to 1/4 of both woofers' (combined) piston area (SD). For woofers having more than 10mm X-max, use 1/3 SD minimum. For woofers with 10mm or less X-max, chamber area can be as small as 1/4 SD.
Area of rear chamber opening should be 1/2 to 1 SD (of a single woofer).
Chamber depth need not be greater than necessary to fit the woofer.
For Ripoles using 12" woofers; you can expect a rather loud chamber resonance somewhere between 200hz-300hz-- so either test and build a compensating *notch filter or choose a crossover frequency and slope significantly below the chamber resonance.
I was considering a passive notch filter to tame the chamber resonance, so I had an online friend calculate filter values to fit my Ripoles, as quoted below:
*Approximate values of passive notch filter with 4 ohm subs: L serial 3.3 mH, 0.4 Ohm Parallel LCR: 365uF, 1mH, 0.28 Ohm. Take these values with a grain of salt because you would likely need to do some measuring to determine the exact chamber resonance and then tweak the filter component values to exactly match up the notch to the resonance." I didn't use the passive filter though, I opted for an active filter instead.
My Ripoles are used with hybrid electrostatic main speakers, in a 3-way setup, shown below. And rather than using the passive notch filter described above, I used a DBX Driverack DSP crossover and crossed the subs in one octave below the chamber resonance using a 24db/octave filter, and then tuned the frequency response using the DBX's channel gains and parametric EQ's.
I will send you my drawing in DXF format, if you want it-- just PM me.
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Hi
@hallcon83 You're listening room conditions sound like a difficult load for a Ripole.
Not only the large size but the opening to the hallway may demand loads of acoustic energy.
I remember once a demo at a dealer's shop Richard Lohnert (he was Axel's companion) and I gave, where the shape of the shop was similar to Your description.
Seemingly the hallway acted like a oversized BR-tube on the showroom, with such a low resonator frequency it drained away a good deal of the sub's output ... kind of a basstrap.
I never heard the Ripole play so low in volume before and ever after.
In this disappointing setup the dipole and room acoustics simply didn't match.
I'd assume that a monopole sub -preferably in a multi-sub CB configuration- would be a more promising approach in Your situation.
jauu
Calvin
@hallcon83 You're listening room conditions sound like a difficult load for a Ripole.
Not only the large size but the opening to the hallway may demand loads of acoustic energy.
I remember once a demo at a dealer's shop Richard Lohnert (he was Axel's companion) and I gave, where the shape of the shop was similar to Your description.
Seemingly the hallway acted like a oversized BR-tube on the showroom, with such a low resonator frequency it drained away a good deal of the sub's output ... kind of a basstrap.
I never heard the Ripole play so low in volume before and ever after.
In this disappointing setup the dipole and room acoustics simply didn't match.
I'd assume that a monopole sub -preferably in a multi-sub CB configuration- would be a more promising approach in Your situation.
jauu
Calvin
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The SB Audience OB 12 and 15 woofers are optimised for open baffle applications.
Would they work well in ripole?
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...udience-bianco-120b150-12-open-baffle-woofer/
Would they work well in ripole?
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...udience-bianco-120b150-12-open-baffle-woofer/
here are a couple of reviews that might help...
https://6moons.com/industry_articles/modalakustik/and as part of a full range speaker https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/ecobox/2.html
I guess I should also say that John Darko podcast #30 is with the 6moons guy and they spend quite a bit of time going over various iterations of subwoofers and room resonances...no mention of Geddes or Toole arrays, but pretty informative
https://6moons.com/industry_articles/modalakustik/and as part of a full range speaker https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/ecobox/2.html
I guess I should also say that John Darko podcast #30 is with the 6moons guy and they spend quite a bit of time going over various iterations of subwoofers and room resonances...no mention of Geddes or Toole arrays, but pretty informative
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The form factor on Jazzman's build approx 15x15x13, with outboard amplification correct? Can anyone point me to where I might find out more about size/performance options....going smaller? I see threads on bigger, but smaller is lacking, and maybe for good reason. I'd be interested from the perspective of needing to blend with satellites that roll off at about 80db