Battery Manegement kit + Clock board II
Hi
May you please help me to understand more about the 2.5 battery management kit to acheive the best sounding results and avoid breaks. Clock Board II has also to feed half of the isolator board in my setup.
I'm reading the shematic, readed the thread already and didn't understand how I should implement it ! So many questions, sorry for that !
I found the reliable shop DVB Projekt aka Oliver advised for A123 LiPoFe4 cells. As its esr is as low as 6 m Ohms I assume the layout is important.
1- What is the best way to link the battery to the kit : U-shape or Z-shape and the shortest cable soldered on the shapes ? Other way like a cell-container with springs on the size of the ANR26650M1B ?
2- does the + polarity on the cell is the + polarity on the board (so negative polarity of the cell go to board Gnd ?
3- I assume the switch on the battery management kit is to switch between the load supply and the charger if this solution is choosed ? Right ?
4- The second relay should be soldered with or without charger ? What is it protect ?
5- Advise for a cheap charger able to feed the A123 cell with 3.6 V ?
6 - If the charger is choosed in the layout, should I solder its 230V wire to the main 230 AC plug of my DAC or better to manage an independant 230 AC plug on the rear of the DAC cabinet ?
7- My poor understanding is there is no automatic switch if the cell voltage dropsbelow its minimal 2.5 V to avoid damage . Do I need to putt a on/off pot.to switch from the battery charger to the cell load ? How to stop the cell from feeding the clock II board when the DAC is off ?
About how connecting the battery kit to the clock board II :
I assume there is several choices
:
8- : 3.2 V fromthe kit to the main clock II board PS plug with Vin & Vout shorted if no TSA7 reg. But does the embeded LDO with the higher esl of the little SEPV cap can waste the performance of the cell on a sounding point of view ?
Better to feed a TSA7 reg setuped on 3.3 V output via the Vin/Vout/Gnd connector with the battery management kit to improve the sounding results (avoiding the main PS 5V main plug) ?
9-: As I have the I2S to PCM board after the Clock board II : should I feed it with a cell to for not wasting the efforts made on the clock board 2 supply ? For instance with two A123 cells in serie with an independant TSA7 reg for the I2StoPCM board ?
Sorry, many questions but I didn't understand how to manage this reading the oldest posts and Hochopepper wiki! I assume also the clock board II
is not equal to the old SI standalone clock board!
Thanks a lot if you have some answers to above questions or want to share your experience about your experiments around A123 cell with Ian's boards.
Hi
May you please help me to understand more about the 2.5 battery management kit to acheive the best sounding results and avoid breaks. Clock Board II has also to feed half of the isolator board in my setup.
I'm reading the shematic, readed the thread already and didn't understand how I should implement it ! So many questions, sorry for that !
I found the reliable shop DVB Projekt aka Oliver advised for A123 LiPoFe4 cells. As its esr is as low as 6 m Ohms I assume the layout is important.
1- What is the best way to link the battery to the kit : U-shape or Z-shape and the shortest cable soldered on the shapes ? Other way like a cell-container with springs on the size of the ANR26650M1B ?
2- does the + polarity on the cell is the + polarity on the board (so negative polarity of the cell go to board Gnd ?
3- I assume the switch on the battery management kit is to switch between the load supply and the charger if this solution is choosed ? Right ?
4- The second relay should be soldered with or without charger ? What is it protect ?
5- Advise for a cheap charger able to feed the A123 cell with 3.6 V ?
6 - If the charger is choosed in the layout, should I solder its 230V wire to the main 230 AC plug of my DAC or better to manage an independant 230 AC plug on the rear of the DAC cabinet ?
7- My poor understanding is there is no automatic switch if the cell voltage dropsbelow its minimal 2.5 V to avoid damage . Do I need to putt a on/off pot.to switch from the battery charger to the cell load ? How to stop the cell from feeding the clock II board when the DAC is off ?
About how connecting the battery kit to the clock board II :
I assume there is several choices
:8- : 3.2 V fromthe kit to the main clock II board PS plug with Vin & Vout shorted if no TSA7 reg. But does the embeded LDO with the higher esl of the little SEPV cap can waste the performance of the cell on a sounding point of view ?
Better to feed a TSA7 reg setuped on 3.3 V output via the Vin/Vout/Gnd connector with the battery management kit to improve the sounding results (avoiding the main PS 5V main plug) ?
9-: As I have the I2S to PCM board after the Clock board II : should I feed it with a cell to for not wasting the efforts made on the clock board 2 supply ? For instance with two A123 cells in serie with an independant TSA7 reg for the I2StoPCM board ?
Sorry, many questions but I didn't understand how to manage this reading the oldest posts and Hochopepper wiki! I assume also the clock board II
is not equal to the old SI standalone clock board!
Thanks a lot if you have some answers to above questions
or want to share your experience about your experiments around A123 cell with Ian's boards.Yes, those ones, I have it already from Mravica member, so I have the choice to power it from their bridge diodes or remove the bridges diodes to feed it directly with a DC battery voltage. As there are caps after the two PS inputs on the new Dual Cloack board II, I was wondering if someone benchmarked A123 cell direct on J5 versus A123 regulated at 3.3V with the 3.3 V input pin on the side of the pcb (so with the strap removed of course) : wich one is sounding the best : :bypassing the onboard ldo and the big Panasonic cap or not ! But firstly I need to know how connecting all the stuffs around the battery management board to avoid to break all by a short after an error of wirering ! My skill are just good to connect a christmass tree !
!Dual Clock Board II : J5 input voltage
Hi Ian,
While I ask above for the best empirical solution you tested, I still have a doubt with the understanding of the quoted answer you made to Zoef !
While the manual of the clock board II says J5 powersupply plug should be fedeed with 5V (or a 3.2V cell), your answer above says there is no longer embeded LDO regulator on board to allow us to putt a better regulated supply than a LDO chip:
Does it mean we still need 5 V on J5 plug or instead max 3.3 V (3.2V if LiPoFe4 cell) now with the Clockboard V2 ? (= no error on the manualV2 about J5 input voltage because both voltage works good on J5?)
I ask also because the manual V2 says 3.3 V through J5 connector seems enough to feed the Isolator board !
Sorry for my poor understanding, prefer to ask than frying Something !
Hi Ian,
While I ask above for the best empirical solution you tested, I still have a doubt with the understanding of the quoted answer you made to Zoef !
While the manual of the clock board II says J5 powersupply plug should be fedeed with 5V (or a 3.2V cell), your answer above says there is no longer embeded LDO regulator on board to allow us to putt a better regulated supply than a LDO chip:
Does it mean we still need 5 V on J5 plug or instead max 3.3 V (3.2V if LiPoFe4 cell) now with the Clockboard V2 ? (= no error on the manualV2 about J5 input voltage because both voltage works good on J5?)
I ask also because the manual V2 says 3.3 V through J5 connector seems enough to feed the Isolator board !
Sorry for my poor understanding, prefer to ask than frying Something !
Hi,
Moode 2.5+ Test Release 1 (TR1) is available for download at moodeaudio.org under the TEST CODE button
This TR includes I2S device selections for IanFIFO II and Soekris DAM1021.
Details at diyAudio Moode thread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/271811-moode-audio-player-raspberry-pi-130.html#post4564530
Enjoy!
Regards,
moodeaudio.org
Moode Twitter feed
Tim Curtis
Moode 2.5+ Test Release 1 (TR1) is available for download at moodeaudio.org under the TEST CODE button
This TR includes I2S device selections for IanFIFO II and Soekris DAM1021.
Details at diyAudio Moode thread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/271811-moode-audio-player-raspberry-pi-130.html#post4564530
Enjoy!
Regards,
moodeaudio.org
Moode Twitter feed
Tim Curtis
It depends on whether you use an additional 3.3v regulator on the provided pins or not. 5v input dc if you do use a regulator or 3.3v input dc if you short the Vin/3.3v pins on the regulator interface pins and thus bypass the external regulator.
Happy New Year
Hi guys,
Just came back from holiday vacation.
If I didn't get chance saying Merry Christmas, I'm glad I still can say Happy New Year ! to all my friends
.
I'm working hard on multi-channel I2S/DSD FIFO project. Hopefully we'll have more fun in 2016 .
All my best wishes
Ian
Hi guys,
Just came back from holiday vacation.
If I didn't get chance saying Merry Christmas, I'm glad I still can say Happy New Year ! to all my friends
.I'm working hard on multi-channel I2S/DSD FIFO project. Hopefully we'll have more fun in 2016
.All my best wishes
Ian
Hi,
sorry to come back on the battery management things !
Do I need a manual switch on/off to close the circuit when there is no playback or to switch from battery charger (or not if extaernal) to playback position !
I didn't understand how the relays are managed ! ... and what exactly what is managed by the kit and what is not ! (I plan genuine A123 cell bought in Germany)
Thank you for your help,
best whiches for the year to come.
sorry to come back on the battery management things !
Do I need a manual switch on/off to close the circuit when there is no playback or to switch from battery charger (or not if extaernal) to playback position !
I didn't understand how the relays are managed ! ... and what exactly what is managed by the kit and what is not ! (I plan genuine A123 cell bought in Germany)
Thank you for your help,
best whiches for the year to come.
Good evening Ian, I do a lot of listening to music via computer , USB xmos and your FIFO stuff. And I am very pleased by it! The only issue is, when I want to see a movie on my computer. Yes, then the delay caused by the FIFO is annoying. A simple solution would be the usage of another DAC. But in my eyes, this would only be the second best solution. Best would be to be able to bridge the FIFO board via a switch. Any possible idea?
Cheers Ernst
Cheers Ernst
Never thought about that. If possible this would be a proper solution. Will check it later. Thanks Eldam.
Cheers
Ok, I've read and read all the manuals. Decided im not going for a battery option. Just too much hassle for sound. I prefer an "always on" version with a seperate PSU.
I know that the Fifo will be powered by the RPi (using linear Squeeze Upgrade PSU). The isolator board are powered by their own sides (iirc), and the clock board will get a separate linear PSU. One question remains, since I have not been able to find much about it yet.. is the S/PDIF board. It's powered with an optional 5V?
What I might want to do is make a 5V lineair PSU with the orderd LDO/regulator board to 3.3V for the clock board, and use another regulator perhaps for the 5V to the SP/dif board. Is this a wise decision ? (other than powering it with a battery)
I know that the Fifo will be powered by the RPi (using linear Squeeze Upgrade PSU). The isolator board are powered by their own sides (iirc), and the clock board will get a separate linear PSU. One question remains, since I have not been able to find much about it yet.. is the S/PDIF board. It's powered with an optional 5V?
What I might want to do is make a 5V lineair PSU with the orderd LDO/regulator board to 3.3V for the clock board, and use another regulator perhaps for the 5V to the SP/dif board. Is this a wise decision ? (other than powering it with a battery)
Do you want to use the Fifo 2 with sources selection (by jumper or switch on/off on it) to connect both a Pi and the Spidf board ?
So your question would be : may I power both the Rpi & the spidf board with a standalone 5 V power supply (both boards powered at the same time), am i correct ? (you will need 1 A for the Pi + Fifo minimum, but don't know how much is need for the spidf)
While the Pi is powering the Fifo if you switch manually from the jumper or by an on/off switch you till have the Fifo 2 powered while having the digital signal comming from the spidf board ?
Is it what you want to acheive ?
In each case my understanding is you must not power the two fifo sides from the same 5V regulator ! So yes two silent power supply with their own secondary from the trafo for each ! Despite the isolator some testimonies for the need of a clean supply for the input side as well.
Hope this helps.
Did you understand from your readings if the battery management needs a manual on/off switch ? I didn't understand from the shematic if it was optional instead a sensing for the voltmeter (I can find empirically I assume but as I have to buy from Farnell it's easier to know it before experimenting)
regards
So your question would be : may I power both the Rpi & the spidf board with a standalone 5 V power supply (both boards powered at the same time), am i correct ? (you will need 1 A for the Pi + Fifo minimum, but don't know how much is need for the spidf)
While the Pi is powering the Fifo if you switch manually from the jumper or by an on/off switch you till have the Fifo 2 powered while having the digital signal comming from the spidf board ?
Is it what you want to acheive ?
In each case my understanding is you must not power the two fifo sides from the same 5V regulator ! So yes two silent power supply with their own secondary from the trafo for each ! Despite the isolator some testimonies for the need of a clean supply for the input side as well.
Hope this helps.
Did you understand from your readings if the battery management needs a manual on/off switch ? I didn't understand from the shematic if it was optional instead a sensing for the voltmeter (I can find empirically I assume but as I have to buy from Farnell it's easier to know it before experimenting)
regards
Hi Eldam
Not using the management board, so cannot really tell you much. From what i recall it automatically switches the battery on when power is applied.
Not sure if this has been discussed - it probably has - but it's still worth discussing: how do you intend to get the battery charged to 3.3v +/-0.3v?
Most of these batteries leave the charger at something above 3.7v which apparently is not great for the oscillator circuits lifespan. And how do you monitor the battery has not been excessively discharged? It is a project in its own right.
There is a similar current discussion on the asylum where Jkeny advocates using the battery in the manner of a capacitor and constantly trickle charging it. This solves most issues and you will need the management board to make sure the battery is disconnected when power is off, but of course you no longer have an isolation from the mains. Jkeny says it doesn't matter soundwise and he may be right.
From my limited experiments with a carefully charged up to 3.5v battery i can say i am stunned. Not so much by the improvement - it has been expected - but by the fact that the battery preserves it's own "sound", the same it has powering analogue electronics and even my tt motor. Too weird, innit? This goes further towards components having a sound irrespective upon where and how are they used. Not gonna please the engineers much
Not using the management board, so cannot really tell you much. From what i recall it automatically switches the battery on when power is applied.
Not sure if this has been discussed - it probably has - but it's still worth discussing: how do you intend to get the battery charged to 3.3v +/-0.3v?
Most of these batteries leave the charger at something above 3.7v which apparently is not great for the oscillator circuits lifespan. And how do you monitor the battery has not been excessively discharged? It is a project in its own right.
There is a similar current discussion on the asylum where Jkeny advocates using the battery in the manner of a capacitor and constantly trickle charging it. This solves most issues and you will need the management board to make sure the battery is disconnected when power is off, but of course you no longer have an isolation from the mains. Jkeny says it doesn't matter soundwise and he may be right.
From my limited experiments with a carefully charged up to 3.5v battery i can say i am stunned. Not so much by the improvement - it has been expected - but by the fact that the battery preserves it's own "sound", the same it has powering analogue electronics and even my tt motor. Too weird, innit? This goes further towards components having a sound irrespective upon where and how are they used. Not gonna please the engineers much
From my limited experiments with a carefully charged up to 3.5v battery i can say i am stunned. Not so much by the improvement - it has been expected - but by the fact that the battery preserves it's own "sound", the same it has powering analogue electronics and even my tt motor. Too weird, innit? This goes further towards components having a sound irrespective upon where and how are they used. Not gonna please the engineers much
Engineers are not too worried about random anecdotes, but they would probably love some real, substantiated experimental results.
Hi Eldam
Not using the management board, so cannot really tell you much. From what i recall it automatically switches the battery on when power is applied.
Not sure if this has been discussed - it probably has - but it's still worth discussing: how do you intend to get the battery charged to 3.3v +/-0.3v?
Most of these batteries leave the charger at something above 3.7v which apparently is not great for the oscillator circuits lifespan. And how do you monitor the battery has not been excessively discharged? It is a project in its own right.
There is a similar current discussion on the asylum where Jkeny advocates using the battery in the manner of a capacitor and constantly trickle charging it. This solves most issues and you will need the management board to make sure the battery is disconnected when power is off, but of course you no longer have an isolation from the mains. Jkeny says it doesn't matter soundwise and he may be right.
From my limited experiments with a carefully charged up to 3.5v battery i can say i am stunned. Not so much by the improvement - it has been expected - but by the fact that the battery preserves it's own "sound", the same it has powering analogue electronics and even my tt motor. Too weird, innit? This goes further towards components having a sound irrespective upon where and how are they used. Not gonna please the engineers much
Thank you for those inputs.
You say "it automatically switches the battery "On" when power is applied"
So just need a manual switch to change the state of the relay to the other position : battery charger ?
Anybody here please to answer ? The pdf manual I relink says switch OR "5v control voltage" ! I don't see how it can be automaticly switched on battery position! Does a switch on J5 management board is needed to allow the kit to work? An external 5V on it ???
The only function I understand seems to be the current limiter with NE 555 delay chip and the optional second relay if a A123 cell (LiPoFe4) is choosed (advised) ! Right ?
Here is the best explanation I finded about the loadind process of a LIPoFE4 cell : How to charge Lithium Iron Phosphate lithium ion battery packs including packs with high current and High Capacity.. But what happen with the cheaper charger when the battery is 100% reloaded and still connected ? Battery damaged ?
I didn't know the oscillators couldn't support the 3.7v short period of the cell when fully loaded without risk of further damage or loss of performance without reversibility (partialy damaged!) ! This information makes me scratch my head
!I haven't choosed yet the battery charger, I find the choice is poor in Europe, found one at 40 euros which can manage the 3.7 voltage (or is it the 4.2 V main LiPoFe4 charger uses to reload it at 90% only of the cell capacity ?!).
Problem is also : if I buy an A123, I need a battery container with spring (which can support the over current of such cell) if i want to remove it for an external charger ! I don't find any 2560 size battery container with spring!
If this time I buy an A123 with U-shape already soldered (highly recommended) I need to solder a plug (with wrapped ferrite as in the Ian's picture here somewhere): not usefull to open the dac when boxed... but at the opposite if each time I switch off the main dac, the battery mananegement putt the cell in charger mode (automaticly ?), we will have a short battery life ! A liPoFe4 has a good numbers of loading cycles (around 2000 for the 2560 size A123 cell) but I sometimes switch my DAC four times a day ! Changing battery each year ?
If Ian advised the A123 in direct without a 3.2V regulation ( (a LiFePo drops "rapidly" (enough?) to their 3.2V fonctionment point for a while) is it better for safety oscillators to put a 3.2 V TS7A reg between Clock 2 J5 and the cell (if pins of the 3.3 V sided regulator are shorted by the provided strap) ?
this story of 3.7 V is borring me ! I come back on my initial list of questions in a post above !
Ian please, if you can make a short description about "How to" and what is managed by the kit and not, it will be greatly appreciated
(I re read the thread and only found partial information I can understand - no tech I am ! but your experience of good sound I trust !)
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