Trying to be completely fair about this, I don't think anyone here would have anything but respect for the superb quality of the workmanship in that original Gemme Audio cabinet. And it's also true to say that something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it, and we are not the market they were aimed at.
I think what made my, and a few other hackles rise, was primarily some of the daft remarks made about these boxes ('nerve-wrecking' to design, when they'd simply smoothed out a freebie plan from the Fostex site etc.) The price was also very high for such a small cab., especially one which was not really a dedicated design. YMMV as ever of course.
I think what made my, and a few other hackles rise, was primarily some of the daft remarks made about these boxes ('nerve-wrecking' to design, when they'd simply smoothed out a freebie plan from the Fostex site etc.) The price was also very high for such a small cab., especially one which was not really a dedicated design. YMMV as ever of course.
Indeed,
It is a nice looking cabinet, and despite a designer's best efforts, many speaker buyers are very concerned, sometimes overly so with straight up looks.
I ain't gonna lie, some of my designs were not so nerve racking to design as to refine... (many were common sense evolutions of Nagaoka designs or simple bass reflex, BIB or TL. built well, damped minimally).
Also, having built a few designs for the 108, and playing with them in alot of different rooms, it is NOT a great idea to drive the poor thing too low. Want an easy way to get 20hz out of it anyways? make a long BIB. That is what I did. Measured. Sure the thing hits 20hz. The phase of the bass flip flops a few times before it gets to 20hz, no matter the horn design. May as well use a subwoofer and deal with that set of compromises.
It is like asking that "pretty little Japanese [albiet Chinese made] butterfly" (from one review) to act like an elephant. Not gonna happen.
Who really WANTS 20hz anyways? I mean geez. Has anyone really LOOKED at what is even on most recordings? An honest and textured 40hz is REALLY deep bass to me. the 108 at a stretch will hit 40. better too cut it off at 50 and save the spare change for crescendos. 30hz is super deep trance electronica bass. Fun, yes, but it is the realm of large full rangers, IMO. Even then, if there was a single reason the larger full rangers are so great is the midrange dynamics, (also IMO).
Design wise, I think it is better to get the ultra top sounding good than the ultra bottom, musically speaking.
I built a sub for a while in one of my systems that hit a well adjusted 20 in room easy shmeazy. It was a nice effect for some music but ultimately I found it to be unnecessary, almost annoying extention. It was better to get the 80-120hz region sounding really happy and strong. That is what ultimately makes most people happy while listening to music.
I have been meaning to post the plans on this forum for a while, but I somehow forgot to take pictures of it before I took off for Japan or save my version of the plans. It was an adaptation of the Nagaoka "Cobra" for single FE103e. For serious tiny driver performance, look no further. It is alot of speaker to play with in room, and disappears like a sumgun.
I had wanted for ages to build a "proof" pair of FE103e horns. Proving the real virtues of this little driver. ESPECIALLY in the bass range. Well implimented, I like the 103 more than the 83/7,85,108 or even the 126/7. They are just plain easier to listen to than the other drivers (IM(humble)O). Plan was to have Dave Dlugos modify the drivers in order to see outerspace for a few hundred bucks.
Course, working at Feastrex now, I should change that to: "parts of outerspace." Regarding magnetic circuits, there really is no replacement for displacement...
-Clark
It is a nice looking cabinet, and despite a designer's best efforts, many speaker buyers are very concerned, sometimes overly so with straight up looks.
I ain't gonna lie, some of my designs were not so nerve racking to design as to refine... (many were common sense evolutions of Nagaoka designs or simple bass reflex, BIB or TL. built well, damped minimally).
Also, having built a few designs for the 108, and playing with them in alot of different rooms, it is NOT a great idea to drive the poor thing too low. Want an easy way to get 20hz out of it anyways? make a long BIB. That is what I did. Measured. Sure the thing hits 20hz. The phase of the bass flip flops a few times before it gets to 20hz, no matter the horn design. May as well use a subwoofer and deal with that set of compromises.
It is like asking that "pretty little Japanese [albiet Chinese made] butterfly" (from one review) to act like an elephant. Not gonna happen.
Who really WANTS 20hz anyways? I mean geez. Has anyone really LOOKED at what is even on most recordings? An honest and textured 40hz is REALLY deep bass to me. the 108 at a stretch will hit 40. better too cut it off at 50 and save the spare change for crescendos. 30hz is super deep trance electronica bass. Fun, yes, but it is the realm of large full rangers, IMO. Even then, if there was a single reason the larger full rangers are so great is the midrange dynamics, (also IMO).
Design wise, I think it is better to get the ultra top sounding good than the ultra bottom, musically speaking.
I built a sub for a while in one of my systems that hit a well adjusted 20 in room easy shmeazy. It was a nice effect for some music but ultimately I found it to be unnecessary, almost annoying extention. It was better to get the 80-120hz region sounding really happy and strong. That is what ultimately makes most people happy while listening to music.
I have been meaning to post the plans on this forum for a while, but I somehow forgot to take pictures of it before I took off for Japan or save my version of the plans. It was an adaptation of the Nagaoka "Cobra" for single FE103e. For serious tiny driver performance, look no further. It is alot of speaker to play with in room, and disappears like a sumgun.
I had wanted for ages to build a "proof" pair of FE103e horns. Proving the real virtues of this little driver. ESPECIALLY in the bass range. Well implimented, I like the 103 more than the 83/7,85,108 or even the 126/7. They are just plain easier to listen to than the other drivers (IM(humble)O). Plan was to have Dave Dlugos modify the drivers in order to see outerspace for a few hundred bucks.
Course, working at Feastrex now, I should change that to: "parts of outerspace." Regarding magnetic circuits, there really is no replacement for displacement...
-Clark
Clark:
Terry would have loved to play in your new sandbox - congratulations!
Scott:
'struth dude - any of us hack builders (myself included - to paraphrase Terry Olson notes - nothing says DIY like Bondo or veneer ), or true craftsmen would acknowledge - there's a lot of time and skill evident in the Gemme enclosures. And who of us have heard them to comment on the results one way or the other?
What we could do without is the purple prose and inane "engineering bafflespeak".
Terry would have loved to play in your new sandbox - congratulations!
Scott:
'struth dude - any of us hack builders (myself included - to paraphrase Terry Olson notes - nothing says DIY like Bondo or veneer ), or true craftsmen would acknowledge - there's a lot of time and skill evident in the Gemme enclosures. And who of us have heard them to comment on the results one way or the other?
What we could do without is the purple prose and inane "engineering bafflespeak".
Right. It's the waffle rather than the speakers per se that really got my goat. Extremely expensive though they were for a modified, very nice implementation of a freebie DIY design, I doubt there was anything wrong with them sonically, within their limitations of course.
I reckon anyone who builds the Factory FE108ESigma cabinet will have an excellent idea of what they sound like... the Gemme cabs. will simple have more midrange / HF leakage out the terminus due to them smoothing the horn path out & maybe a whisker more gain. I suspect that's why they opted to finish the inside of the terminus with leather -to damp out some of the higher frequencies escaping, and it's a suitably luxurious material. OTOH, I imagine box noise would be a complete non-issue as they're effectively solid slabs of MDF. Swings & roundabouts as always.
I reckon anyone who builds the Factory FE108ESigma cabinet will have an excellent idea of what they sound like... the Gemme cabs. will simple have more midrange / HF leakage out the terminus due to them smoothing the horn path out & maybe a whisker more gain. I suspect that's why they opted to finish the inside of the terminus with leather -to damp out some of the higher frequencies escaping, and it's a suitably luxurious material. OTOH, I imagine box noise would be a complete non-issue as they're effectively solid slabs of MDF. Swings & roundabouts as always.
Warning! Cranky Post!
HDF + plywood + veneer + black lacquer + chrome + curves + swept-back profile, sprayed with polyester finish, dried in an oven, boxed up, inventoried, invoiced, shipped out, tracked, delivered, unboxed, set up, and eventually sold on Augiogon before finally ending up in a landfill.
HDF + plywood + veneer + black lacquer + chrome + curves + swept-back profile, sprayed with polyester finish, dried in an oven, boxed up, inventoried, invoiced, shipped out, tracked, delivered, unboxed, set up, and eventually sold on Augiogon before finally ending up in a landfill.
Attachments
Re: Warning! Cranky Post!
Do you mean you owned those speakers or developed them? I don't get it?
Just to clear my intention with this thread, I wasn't trying to trash Gemme at all. I was just trying to see if the old posts I remembered were connected to this loudspeaker company, because when I read about it, I got reminded of the old RobertG posts etc, and also I wanted to see what more knowledgeable people than myself thought.
Anyhow, they clearly can build a very beautiful cab that looks'' top notch''. As they are fellow countrymen I wish them nothing but success and prosperity..
Dave
rjbond3rd said:
Do you mean you owned those speakers or developed them? I don't get it?
Just to clear my intention with this thread, I wasn't trying to trash Gemme at all. I was just trying to see if the old posts I remembered were connected to this loudspeaker company, because when I read about it, I got reminded of the old RobertG posts etc, and also I wanted to see what more knowledgeable people than myself thought.
Anyhow, they clearly can build a very beautiful cab that looks'' top notch''. As they are fellow countrymen I wish them nothing but success and prosperity..
Dave
Hi DaveCan, I apologize for hijacking and distorting the spirit of your thread. I'm the proud descendent of immigrants from Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island (French settlers of Mischouche, St. Peters, Tignish). They emigrated to Boston in the late 1800's and I was born three generations later. I've spent a lot of time in Windsor and Hamilton, because I used to commute between Ann Arbor and Boston.
I only meant to say that the more high-endish manufactured speakers I see, the less I think "a craftsman made this" and the more I think "consumerism" and "volatile organic compounds" and "environmental impact" etc. That's what impresses me about the DIY stuff I've seen -- it's a level beyond what manufacturers seem ready / willing / able to produce, and it forces you to personally deal with the toxicity of the ingredients. However, I cop to being OT and for that, I apologize.
I only meant to say that the more high-endish manufactured speakers I see, the less I think "a craftsman made this" and the more I think "consumerism" and "volatile organic compounds" and "environmental impact" etc. That's what impresses me about the DIY stuff I've seen -- it's a level beyond what manufacturers seem ready / willing / able to produce, and it forces you to personally deal with the toxicity of the ingredients. However, I cop to being OT and for that, I apologize.
Re: Re: Indeed,
Yeah, it is really fun. As Chris has mentioned on the other thread, Feastrex really are very nice, incredibly hard working people. The real deal. It was an easy choice to join their team.
As the days roll on, they have made it even easier for me to consider staying here long term by feeding me several "Japanese delicacies" like nato (slimy fermented soybeans every morning (actually pretty good)), raw beef tongue (delicious, actually), fermented squid in salt and drowned in some kinda pink sauce (NOT my favorite), oh, and drum roll please: pigs feet "good for the health." right...
There is alot, perhaps too much swimming around in my head right now to give a real "1st report." (especially after hearing Miles Davis "something else" from 1st or second copy master tape through field coil speakers). This is something else somewhere else.
But suffice it to say, it is enjoyable work, and even more enjoyable people to work with. If I have the aptitude to be trained well enough, and the culture and language thing works out I could see myself doing this for quite a while. Not too far off from what you do: tedious, delicate, and unfathomably precise hand work. day in, day out.
I am wanting to get my last few higher end "Blumenstein" customers' drivers modified by you, BTW so my soul can rest easy. Soon enough...
Sorry to hijack the thread.
-Clark
Thanks for the encouragement.
planet10 said:
Yeah, it is really fun. As Chris has mentioned on the other thread, Feastrex really are very nice, incredibly hard working people. The real deal. It was an easy choice to join their team.
As the days roll on, they have made it even easier for me to consider staying here long term by feeding me several "Japanese delicacies" like nato (slimy fermented soybeans every morning (actually pretty good)), raw beef tongue (delicious, actually), fermented squid in salt and drowned in some kinda pink sauce (NOT my favorite), oh, and drum roll please: pigs feet "good for the health." right...
There is alot, perhaps too much swimming around in my head right now to give a real "1st report." (especially after hearing Miles Davis "something else" from 1st or second copy master tape through field coil speakers). This is something else somewhere else.
But suffice it to say, it is enjoyable work, and even more enjoyable people to work with. If I have the aptitude to be trained well enough, and the culture and language thing works out I could see myself doing this for quite a while. Not too far off from what you do: tedious, delicate, and unfathomably precise hand work. day in, day out.
I am wanting to get my last few higher end "Blumenstein" customers' drivers modified by you, BTW so my soul can rest easy. Soon enough...
Sorry to hijack the thread.
-Clark
Thanks for the encouragement.
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