Been mulling that BIS re-release and found this quote based on the liner notes "Ricker went through many lacquers and even broke a cutter head in an effort to inscribe onto the lacquers all of the percussive transient detail on the tape. In his back cover note Ricker can’t imagine how the original real-time cut could have managed without high frequency limited on the whip and tambourine parts."
Now I am sure Stan wouldn't lie about this and he's no longer here to confirm or deny, but a domestic 1/4" 15IPS tape deck produces an almost un-cutable and possibly untrackable disk. Not even a JC or Keith Johnson 30IPS 1" monster. Makes one think.
Now I am sure Stan wouldn't lie about this and he's no longer here to confirm or deny, but a domestic 1/4" 15IPS tape deck produces an almost un-cutable and possibly untrackable disk. Not even a JC or Keith Johnson 30IPS 1" monster. Makes one think.
That 1KHz with the harmonics from the MC cartridge may be the very reason why vinyl sounds so much better. Looked at in isolation it's clearly not even close to CD in performance. But looking at it in such a simple context would be rather stupid (though this most ofthen the case). An MC cartridge is exactly the opposite of a speaker driver so the two mechanical inherent flaws tend to cancel each other, I wonder how this would look if it was analyzed through the system as SPL from the speaker.
Hi,
It "sounds so much better" because you just can't get enough of the good distortion, certainly doesn't delivers more High Fidelity. I made the measurement (sort of) which you asked for. Here in Toronto ,where I am is no an-echoic environment, and also some hum in the system, so I had to use some denoising in the Cool Edit. For playback I used a Philips 212 record player with a 412 pick-up (I had no access to the Rega) a Technics SU-9070 preamp, an Elektor electronic xover ,a Parasound HCA-855a power amp, and an Altec 802 attached to a midrange conical horn. For the recording an AKG C451e omni mike (right in to the horn mouth, possibly somewhat attenuating the reflections), a Nagra pre amp, transformer coupled to the computer. The Philips is a bit better than the Rega was, and you are right the playback spectrum improved. The Philps H2: -38dB, H3: -46, while the playback came out H2: -49.5 and the H3: 41.3dB.
CD sounds dry, one must have a good system, with good speakers and a good recording to appreciate it, but then it's no comparison.
It "sounds so much better" because you just can't get enough of the good distortion, certainly doesn't delivers more High Fidelity. I made the measurement (sort of) which you asked for. Here in Toronto ,where I am is no an-echoic environment, and also some hum in the system, so I had to use some denoising in the Cool Edit. For playback I used a Philips 212 record player with a 412 pick-up (I had no access to the Rega) a Technics SU-9070 preamp, an Elektor electronic xover ,a Parasound HCA-855a power amp, and an Altec 802 attached to a midrange conical horn. For the recording an AKG C451e omni mike (right in to the horn mouth, possibly somewhat attenuating the reflections), a Nagra pre amp, transformer coupled to the computer. The Philips is a bit better than the Rega was, and you are right the playback spectrum improved. The Philps H2: -38dB, H3: -46, while the playback came out H2: -49.5 and the H3: 41.3dB.
CD sounds dry, one must have a good system, with good speakers and a good recording to appreciate it, but then it's no comparison.
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My CD of this arrived at the weekend. Summary from eldest daughter 'the musicians clearly had too much fun making this'. Certainly if I find a used copy at sensible money will add that to the collection.
Have the BIS as well now. If the vinyl is as well cut as the reviews say and you like that sort of music and feel the need to pay 4x CD price for vinyl probably a good purchase as only 1000 copies being pressed so will be collectable in 40 years
The CBS DISComputer was a cutting lathe that optimized the groove spacing dynamically to balance the compromise of playtime and depth of cut (loudness).
It was one of father's projects when he worked at CBS Laboratories in Stamford, CT.
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In my life experience, I have never found that ADDED distortion added anything good about sound. However, I have often seen examples of LOW distortion amps, sources, etc, that sound relatively lousy.
Analog tape recordings are a good example: You had to live with the S/N and distortion, hoping to ride the gain to keep the sound acceptable, BUT the intrinsic quality of the music was retained inevitably with the Revox A77, running at 1/2 track and 15 ips. For example, Dave Wilson used this set-up for years, before he had me design a 30ips full track machine to replace it. The improvement was real but relatively small, when it came to just enjoying the music. What 'kills' sound quality seems to be lousy IC's and sometimes Class C output stages that are used all too often. In this case, a much more expensive Studer might sound lousier than the A77. We have made the comparisons.
In my experience, the BEST source is a DIRECT DISC vinyl recording (virtually unobtainable today), next best is a high quality analog recording, and third is a high quality analog recording made into a vinyl record. This is what Stan Ricker was attempting to get right.
Actual sine wave measurement of standard distortion will NOT tell you much about how the recording will actually sound. Listen, and you will find this to be so.
Analog tape recordings are a good example: You had to live with the S/N and distortion, hoping to ride the gain to keep the sound acceptable, BUT the intrinsic quality of the music was retained inevitably with the Revox A77, running at 1/2 track and 15 ips. For example, Dave Wilson used this set-up for years, before he had me design a 30ips full track machine to replace it. The improvement was real but relatively small, when it came to just enjoying the music. What 'kills' sound quality seems to be lousy IC's and sometimes Class C output stages that are used all too often. In this case, a much more expensive Studer might sound lousier than the A77. We have made the comparisons.
In my experience, the BEST source is a DIRECT DISC vinyl recording (virtually unobtainable today), next best is a high quality analog recording, and third is a high quality analog recording made into a vinyl record. This is what Stan Ricker was attempting to get right.
Actual sine wave measurement of standard distortion will NOT tell you much about how the recording will actually sound. Listen, and you will find this to be so.
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Thread reopened. Keep the discussion respectful going forward, attack ideas, not each other.Yes. IMO DSD is the natural replacement for analog recording/mastering. It could be argued that DSD is not really digital, as the signal is never quantized.
I have a collection of SACDs, many of which are 'hybrid', in that they have a CD track as well. When switching between the two, SACD sounds oh so much better.
I also have a serious vinyl setup for my library of 'golden age' records, a large portion of which are direct-to-disc.
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Hi Polyphaze, I enjoy DSD as well. My take on it is that:
1. if the signal is never quantized so its definitely not PCM digital.
2. but it is still stored as 1s and 0s. So that still makes it digital in my book. Pulse Density Modulation (PDM) digital to be more precise.
3. Nonetheless it does have analog-like characteristics and PDM (DSD) can be replayed without a DAC.
Sorry to off-topic, but there is a very long thread on DSD replay here.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/273474-best-dac-no-dac.html
Our supermarket chain Sainsbury's have 20 LP's at £16 each. Fleetwood Mac Rumours is one. I wonder if it is analogue?
John Curl. Nice to see you here, hope you are well. I just spent money doing a new batch of Garrard 501 power amps PCB's. It is my take on the Hitachi twin VAS using Exicon FET's . Actually makes a very fine music amp.
John Curl. Nice to see you here, hope you are well. I just spent money doing a new batch of Garrard 501 power amps PCB's. It is my take on the Hitachi twin VAS using Exicon FET's . Actually makes a very fine music amp.
It's always been a quirky recording. I have at last a good CD player using the old Crystal 20 bit DAC as in Quad CD67. The CD is the slightly better sound over LP12 Ekos DL110.Mostly LP12 is the winner, not when Graceland.
LP's are life and happiness to me, as are real books and all people. Colleen worse than me, she loving the best of life in a way I hardly keep up with. She is the JVC DD owner. Better than an LP12 and EKOS ( she and the LP12 I should say ).
CD verses LP is in analogy is Beer verses Wine. It's a silly thing to even think it needs discussing. If music the intoxicant it's which is the better medium to make it work. I like Soave and Gin best if counting cost ( streaming ? Gin ? ). Like alcohol it needs limits if not to make it too important in ones life. I love cars and motorcycyles and how they work. That is actually my first love's. Alas modern engines mean I just service them as my limit. CD is like that and why vinyl is more hands on. With my Pwrkingson's like illness LP's are almost mind over matter to use. It can take me 2 minutes to get a piece I so want to play. I still solder things inc SMD and mount PU's. I just take forever to do it. If wondering how I service cars when so unable. Simple, we were blacksmiths in history ( Pearsons Bike Shop London , oldest in the world ). I have the blacksmith in my blood even at 60. I am 17 stone of that.
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