Hi, first off, lets say i'm kind off noob with audio and stuff, so please don't judge me, i'm also new to this forums so bare that in mind, i hope i'm not offtopic.
Anyway i got one very very experienced friend who is into electronics/audio stuff, he build speakers and also fix problems with it, hes electro-engineer, hes really skilled.
Now on the point.
I bought Adam A3x studio monitors 8 months ago, i'm generally very satisfied with this speakers, but today i noticed something i didn't liked, and my friend was telling me that i'm wrong when i think the studio monitors (on cheap) are build with quality parts.
I was listening to a song, and i'm using ASIO driver, which make the volume 100% whenever i play something with AIMP3,(the input is very high) so dunno if that could cuase the problem but here is what happened. now when i There was big distrotion on 50% volume on both speakers, when i played a song with strong bass, well not really strong but lets say maybe a bit stogner then ussual.
I decided to talk to my friend and he said it was cause the internal amps in the Adam A3x sux, same as many others in similar price range.
He also said, to ask anyone what kind off AMP does this speakers use? he stated that hes 90% sure, they use some low grade amp, (can't recall the model) and he show me there was huge 10% distortion when u crank up the volume, same as i experienced, he showed me some tehnical data PDF.
So long story short, is this true? does studio monitors entry/mid level really have low grade amps? and does anyone here know what parts are used into various models of monitors, is there any site where you can check the internal parts of speaker - ratings/specs wise?
Thanks in advance.
Anyway i got one very very experienced friend who is into electronics/audio stuff, he build speakers and also fix problems with it, hes electro-engineer, hes really skilled.
Now on the point.
I bought Adam A3x studio monitors 8 months ago, i'm generally very satisfied with this speakers, but today i noticed something i didn't liked, and my friend was telling me that i'm wrong when i think the studio monitors (on cheap) are build with quality parts.
I was listening to a song, and i'm using ASIO driver, which make the volume 100% whenever i play something with AIMP3,(the input is very high) so dunno if that could cuase the problem but here is what happened. now when i There was big distrotion on 50% volume on both speakers, when i played a song with strong bass, well not really strong but lets say maybe a bit stogner then ussual.
I decided to talk to my friend and he said it was cause the internal amps in the Adam A3x sux, same as many others in similar price range.
He also said, to ask anyone what kind off AMP does this speakers use? he stated that hes 90% sure, they use some low grade amp, (can't recall the model) and he show me there was huge 10% distortion when u crank up the volume, same as i experienced, he showed me some tehnical data PDF.
So long story short, is this true? does studio monitors entry/mid level really have low grade amps? and does anyone here know what parts are used into various models of monitors, is there any site where you can check the internal parts of speaker - ratings/specs wise?
Thanks in advance.
Hi,
The practise of rating power output at 10% (common with AV stuff) should be roundly condemned, but it tells you nothing about the sound quality.
The real figures are the levels of distortion up to say 10/20 W, and the real
output power at 1% distortion (or 0.1%), whaatever, the real clipping point.
Any amplifier from the uber exotic to dirt cheap budget crap will do 10%
distortion if you drive into clipping, your friend doesn't understand what
he's talking about and can't read /understand a spec sheet properly.
rgds, sreten.
Your speakers probably use the TDA2050 :
For 10% distortion it does 22W 8R and 35W 4R.
For 0.5% distortion it does 18W 8R and 28W 4R.
Below clipping level distortion is typically < 0.03%.
The practise of rating power output at 10% (common with AV stuff) should be roundly condemned, but it tells you nothing about the sound quality.
The real figures are the levels of distortion up to say 10/20 W, and the real
output power at 1% distortion (or 0.1%), whaatever, the real clipping point.
Any amplifier from the uber exotic to dirt cheap budget crap will do 10%
distortion if you drive into clipping, your friend doesn't understand what
he's talking about and can't read /understand a spec sheet properly.
rgds, sreten.
Your speakers probably use the TDA2050 :
For 10% distortion it does 22W 8R and 35W 4R.
For 0.5% distortion it does 18W 8R and 28W 4R.
Below clipping level distortion is typically < 0.03%.
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Thanks for the answer, actually i dont know for what exactly was that rating, but i was telling him the quality is great etc, and after he saw the 10% THD at certain power input, yes he also compared at 1W/THD/SPL and other imporant stuff, he stated the same like you now when i remember about it.
He also said that ratings like that is for low level of AMPS and that generally most of the integrated AMPS are crap compared to dedicated.
The sound quality of my speakers is good, i'm satisfied, but i didn't knew they will fail to not make distortion at only 50% i tought at 70/80% maybe, but at 50 isn't that to low for such distrotion? could this be avoided by getting lets say Focal CMS 50? thanks dude.
He also said that ratings like that is for low level of AMPS and that generally most of the integrated AMPS are crap compared to dedicated.
The sound quality of my speakers is good, i'm satisfied, but i didn't knew they will fail to not make distortion at only 50% i tought at 70/80% maybe, but at 50 isn't that to low for such distrotion? could this be avoided by getting lets say Focal CMS 50? thanks dude.
Hi,
Any pair of active speakers will distort of you overdrive them.
If you reduce the speakers gain and it still happens then
you've got clipping in the signal before the active speakers.
Otherwise set the gain to avoid overload, and that depends
on the crest factor of the signaal, not some % output number.
rgds, sreten.
Any pair of active speakers will distort of you overdrive them.
If you reduce the speakers gain and it still happens then
you've got clipping in the signal before the active speakers.
Otherwise set the gain to avoid overload, and that depends
on the crest factor of the signaal, not some % output number.
rgds, sreten.
It has a 4.5" woofer and a 2-way design.
The greater the woofer movement, the worse the vocal range distortion.
That is expected--it is a monitor speaker, not a sound reinforcement speaker.
The onboard 25 watt amplifier is powerful enough to ruin the resolution of most 2 way speakers, more the fault of the speaker design than the amplifier. No need to blame the amp.
To expand the power handling of the speakers you already own, it is possible to install a bass blocker aimed at low pitches that the speaker cannot reproduce and it would perform slightly better without all the extraneous workload. There's not often a need to ask 4.5" woofers for 20hz.
You could put a bass blocker on the existing speakers and then use a subwoofer -or- you could upgrade to 3-way monitors.
A 3-way monitor can handle more amplifier power more gracefully, depending on build quality and x-max of course. With the 3-way when the woofer moves a lot, this does not scramble the vocal range because vocals come out of the midrange speaker driver. The 3-way speaker lets us Avoid putting vocals through a madly moving woofer.
A "wideband design" refers to a special type of 3 way speaker, which has a hi-fi full range (or wide band) driver covering a lot of the audio band, plus helper woofers, plus helper tweeter. Here is an example of a wideband type monitor. Statements_Monitor
P.S.
Bob Cordell also has a circuit called the Klever Klipper that is a high speed compressor soft clip combo that can help in headroom management. It can be used in combination with ClipNipper if louder playback is desired. Whatever excesses escape the ClipNipper will be captured by the fast Klever Klipper and softly rounded, which is better than audible distortion. You can also choose to block bass pitches that are lower than speaker capacity. This team of 3 accessories can have your little monitor speakers playing dramatically louder, with low distortion.
Software:
There are also digital software-based limiters that you could use with your computer. Also the software based equalizers could be useful if they have many bass bands to choose from so you can reduce inaudible subharmonic output that pointlessly overworks the little speakers.
The greater the woofer movement, the worse the vocal range distortion.
That is expected--it is a monitor speaker, not a sound reinforcement speaker.
The onboard 25 watt amplifier is powerful enough to ruin the resolution of most 2 way speakers, more the fault of the speaker design than the amplifier. No need to blame the amp.
To expand the power handling of the speakers you already own, it is possible to install a bass blocker aimed at low pitches that the speaker cannot reproduce and it would perform slightly better without all the extraneous workload. There's not often a need to ask 4.5" woofers for 20hz.
You could put a bass blocker on the existing speakers and then use a subwoofer -or- you could upgrade to 3-way monitors.
A 3-way monitor can handle more amplifier power more gracefully, depending on build quality and x-max of course. With the 3-way when the woofer moves a lot, this does not scramble the vocal range because vocals come out of the midrange speaker driver. The 3-way speaker lets us Avoid putting vocals through a madly moving woofer.
A "wideband design" refers to a special type of 3 way speaker, which has a hi-fi full range (or wide band) driver covering a lot of the audio band, plus helper woofers, plus helper tweeter. Here is an example of a wideband type monitor. Statements_Monitor
P.S.
Bob Cordell also has a circuit called the Klever Klipper that is a high speed compressor soft clip combo that can help in headroom management. It can be used in combination with ClipNipper if louder playback is desired. Whatever excesses escape the ClipNipper will be captured by the fast Klever Klipper and softly rounded, which is better than audible distortion. You can also choose to block bass pitches that are lower than speaker capacity. This team of 3 accessories can have your little monitor speakers playing dramatically louder, with low distortion.
Software:
There are also digital software-based limiters that you could use with your computer. Also the software based equalizers could be useful if they have many bass bands to choose from so you can reduce inaudible subharmonic output that pointlessly overworks the little speakers.
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Not all active speakers use chip amps or low quality parts. It's also worth pointing out that the amplifier in an active speaker is driving a known loudspeaker load, so it doesn't require the 'just in case', heavy current build of a general purpose power amp.
The common figure quoted is that an active system with (say) 2 x 25w amplifiers will go as loud as a passive speaker rated at 100w (given all the drivers are a similar sensitivity).
I'd go with the others and suggest a sub rather than an upgrade. If you want to go higher on the main speakers, I can recommend the AVI ADM9s which I use here. They have discrete amplifiers throughout, 250w for bass/mid and 75w for the treble. They also have a built in preamp and DAC, so may not be precisely what you need. However they do go loud, enabling them to avoid clipping on peaks when listening to symphonic music. but like your Adams, they are a small monitor so need a sub if you want to explore below 50Hz. (I've measure 45Hz in room but a sub does add a bit of weight and depth to the sound.)
The common figure quoted is that an active system with (say) 2 x 25w amplifiers will go as loud as a passive speaker rated at 100w (given all the drivers are a similar sensitivity).
I'd go with the others and suggest a sub rather than an upgrade. If you want to go higher on the main speakers, I can recommend the AVI ADM9s which I use here. They have discrete amplifiers throughout, 250w for bass/mid and 75w for the treble. They also have a built in preamp and DAC, so may not be precisely what you need. However they do go loud, enabling them to avoid clipping on peaks when listening to symphonic music. but like your Adams, they are a small monitor so need a sub if you want to explore below 50Hz. (I've measure 45Hz in room but a sub does add a bit of weight and depth to the sound.)
Thanks all for the explanation! some great stuff there!
And back to my previous questions, i respect your opinions and i have tought about adding a sub, but i got the itch to upgrade, and its stronger then me
So please, excuse my ignorance, and give me suggestions about what would be the best option from this 3 speakers,
A7x vs Neuman KH 120 vs CMS 50, thanks!
And back to my previous questions, i respect your opinions and i have tought about adding a sub, but i got the itch to upgrade, and its stronger then me
So please, excuse my ignorance, and give me suggestions about what would be the best option from this 3 speakers,
A7x vs Neuman KH 120 vs CMS 50, thanks!
Sorry, i tought you guys are familiar with the models, sorry again!
here are the links!
CMS 50. Focal Professional studio monitor loudspeakers
Georg Neumann GmbH - Professional Monitoring
http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products/a7x/description
here are the links!
CMS 50. Focal Professional studio monitor loudspeakers
Georg Neumann GmbH - Professional Monitoring
http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products/a7x/description
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Personally I like the look of the A7X the least. It looks 'over done' to me, uses a 100W Class D amp for the woofer - excessive in my opinion so more about marketing than sound.
Between the other two it's hard to tell from the specs, both look good on paper depending on your goals. The KH120 does seem to be designed to offer good horizontal dispersion, something that people like Earl Geddes says is very important and a deficiency in most speakers.
But whatever you do, don't assume you can pick a good speaker from a specification. There is only one way to know if a speaker is good or not good - you have to listen to it. There is no other way. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Trust your ears. Listen to music you know and like, ensure the salesman hasn't screwed up the demo by cranking up the bass or moving the speaker off it's neutral settings in order to impress you with a particular sound that will be impressive for about 1 minute but over the long term will be annoying. If you have to buy to listen make sure you have a return policy.
Between the other two it's hard to tell from the specs, both look good on paper depending on your goals. The KH120 does seem to be designed to offer good horizontal dispersion, something that people like Earl Geddes says is very important and a deficiency in most speakers.
But whatever you do, don't assume you can pick a good speaker from a specification. There is only one way to know if a speaker is good or not good - you have to listen to it. There is no other way. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Trust your ears. Listen to music you know and like, ensure the salesman hasn't screwed up the demo by cranking up the bass or moving the speaker off it's neutral settings in order to impress you with a particular sound that will be impressive for about 1 minute but over the long term will be annoying. If you have to buy to listen make sure you have a return policy.
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No opinion, as I think a small powered sub is the best way to go, but I had to laugh when I saw that a piece of paper giving you a product warranty was listed as in inclusion.
There is a thread somewhere discussing powered monitors ( it isn't really a DIY thing) and the best reviewed product seemed to be the cheaper Behringer speakers
There is a thread somewhere discussing powered monitors ( it isn't really a DIY thing) and the best reviewed product seemed to be the cheaper Behringer speakers
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