As I recall, Aaron was not satisfied that he could come up with a passive XO for the Ellipses - the TMMs with A7.3 & SDX7s - he’s probably at least as fussy as Dr Lindgren in that regard, but they’d quite likely still have different targets/ approach for any given set of drivers. So I’m pretty sure I’ve only ever heard them bi-amped. While their size didn’t work as well in either of my rooms as the MTMs - but worked for me in a Dave’s big space, as an aesthetic piece of work they’re probably the favourite of all my builds.
“Best of breed” is a highly subjective loaded question, and while the all Alpair system certainly sounds great, and any of the A5.2 through A7.3 should work very well for the top end, I’d be inclined to look into lower cost options for the midbass drivers. Just keep Dave’s comments re performance in that passband in mind .
I yield the floor to comments
edit: PS - the approx 100 SS to which Dave referred was an Onkyo surround receiver that allowed option for digitally X-Oed bi-amping, and its rather optimistic specs should be derated to approx that amount - maybe less? But then don’t forget that in a multichannel system with external amplification for subs, that there can be a lot of channels running, and in 5 channel stereo the surrounds play much louder than in any of the surround modes.
“Best of breed” is a highly subjective loaded question, and while the all Alpair system certainly sounds great, and any of the A5.2 through A7.3 should work very well for the top end, I’d be inclined to look into lower cost options for the midbass drivers. Just keep Dave’s comments re performance in that passband in mind .
I yield the floor to comments
edit: PS - the approx 100 SS to which Dave referred was an Onkyo surround receiver that allowed option for digitally X-Oed bi-amping, and its rather optimistic specs should be derated to approx that amount - maybe less? But then don’t forget that in a multichannel system with external amplification for subs, that there can be a lot of channels running, and in 5 channel stereo the surrounds play much louder than in any of the surround modes.
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I'm not sure if Dave has revised the drawings on those enough to allow for a less labourious job of nesting the mid-tweeter tapered TL between the woofers. The combination of targeted C-t-C spacing and wide bezels on the 3 Alpair drivers made for a very interesting time of it. I ended up having to route out some of the TL's walls and patch with fibre glass, and gained a whole new level of respect for dental surgeons.
Thanks for that, Chris.
I haven't seen the plans yet. I don't mind some complication, but that sounds like it might benefit from some additional development. We'll see what Dave sends me.
If the thickness of the TL walls is the issue, can I just use a different material?
Well, Quattrofish, do you get the most out of your Fostex F120a? That depends on what benchmark you're applying. You can improve its high volume perfomance a lot by adding a subwoofer (like shown in some of the suggestions and your posted pictures) and possibly a supertweeter. While the latter isn't really needed (at least IMHO), a subwoofer or bass driver improves the performace a lot. The mid- and high range becomes a relieved, distortion drops a lot, dynamic range goes up by far. If you really profit from that depends solely on how loud you are listening. If you stay below ~93dB, you only profit from deeper bass. Above that, you'll benefit a lot from much higher dynamics and much more relaxed sound. That means more volume taken up though and a more optical dominant speaker.
I, personally, would do just that, add a bass or subwoofer to get the maximum out of the F120a. Dynamics are very important to me but that doesn't count for everyone. Try to define what's important to you, how deep the bass has to go and how loud you want to play it. If you know that, you know what speaker combination you want.
I, personally, would do just that, add a bass or subwoofer to get the maximum out of the F120a. Dynamics are very important to me but that doesn't count for everyone. Try to define what's important to you, how deep the bass has to go and how loud you want to play it. If you know that, you know what speaker combination you want.
Thanks, ICG. Your thinking is completely in line with mine. My current system, as shown in Dave's repost of my picture, already includes subwoofers. While my implementation could be better, I'm definitely a fan of the WAW concept and have been using them for a couple of years. I could just try again, but my knowledge is insufficient to be sure of much improvement.
I thought we had found a winner with the A7.3/A12pw MTM, and even purchased the plans, but after a heart-to-heart it appears that Mrs. Quattrofish is not enamored of having 48" H x 15" W speakers in our living room. While I'd prefer to build them anyway, I can't really blame her. At about 4" taller than the A/V shelves in the picture, and 2" wider than the current speakers, they would totally dominate the room.
I'm sold on the 3-5" wideband/subwoofer idea, so will continue to explore options.
I thought we had found a winner with the A7.3/A12pw MTM, and even purchased the plans, but after a heart-to-heart it appears that Mrs. Quattrofish is not enamored of having 48" H x 15" W speakers in our living room. While I'd prefer to build them anyway, I can't really blame her. At about 4" taller than the A/V shelves in the picture, and 2" wider than the current speakers, they would totally dominate the room.
I'm sold on the 3-5" wideband/subwoofer idea, so will continue to explore options.
You sure did, Chris, and it served as a warning for me to double check. Good thing I did.
The WAF struggle is real.
My first thought was to keep the 15" baffle width of the MTM, and the TL for the wideband, but put it within a shorter sealed cabinet with a larger woofer that is capable of going low in a smaller cabinet. The HF line of Dayton subwoofers (12") springs to mind, but there are many choices that might work. Sadly, the more I read (acoustic centers, dispersion patterns, baffle step, etc.) the more I realize I don't know what I'm doing. The devil is in the details, and what seems like it might work might sound like crap.
So here I am.
I am confident that Dave will make some excellent suggestions once he has the chance. I'm just spouting off here because it is on my mind. Plus, more perspectives are always good.
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