Zen Mod
"I have room for them........
I'll do you a favor ,but you pay the freights"
I hadn't considered adoption....
Just did. Nope.
Panomaniac.
"Turntable in another room? You're hard core, Geoff!"
I hinted at that in post 25. GM knows where I'm coming from - post 52.
Don't worry Michael, one day you might get some real speakers.
You read about people hearing the differences between CD players, etc. I could hear when the Thorens needed an oil change. Serious.
The Altec enclosures are what I refer to as real BR, as oposed to those hissing air pumps - ducts. The port is sized according to the piston diameter eg 80%, and the cabinet size adjusted to tune the assembly.
The flare in front of the driver is a horn. In the case of the A7, going down to about 150 Hz. That's the bit that makes Saxophones, lower male vocals, violas etc stand out in the crowd. They are in reality a 3 way system.
Jeff Mai. I think we have grasped the concept that big is better. Now take your horn to your room.
Do you have a front view?
"I have room for them........
I'll do you a favor ,but you pay the freights"
I hadn't considered adoption....
Just did. Nope.
Panomaniac.
"Turntable in another room? You're hard core, Geoff!"
I hinted at that in post 25. GM knows where I'm coming from - post 52.
Don't worry Michael, one day you might get some real speakers.
You read about people hearing the differences between CD players, etc. I could hear when the Thorens needed an oil change. Serious.
The Altec enclosures are what I refer to as real BR, as oposed to those hissing air pumps - ducts. The port is sized according to the piston diameter eg 80%, and the cabinet size adjusted to tune the assembly.
The flare in front of the driver is a horn. In the case of the A7, going down to about 150 Hz. That's the bit that makes Saxophones, lower male vocals, violas etc stand out in the crowd. They are in reality a 3 way system.
Jeff Mai. I think we have grasped the concept that big is better. Now take your horn to your room.
Do you have a front view?
Now, now Jeff (with a J),
Play nice! We can't all trot out or "Bigger is Better, yours is not Big enough." So let's not go there.
Honestly, I've heard the big Altecs, like the A4s and the JBL clones. They sound great, they sound big, and they fill a huge cinema. But I'll take the modified 828 cabs with the 1505 horns any day. Why?
More natural. More realistic. Tighter. At least in a normal size room. A lot of old sound guys I knew would laugh at me when I told them how much I liked those cabinets. But they never heard a really tight, strong version with the 1505 on top.
Construction of the Altec cabinets was not always of the highest quality. Redoubling the walls with extremely dense plywood transformed them. Internal bracing, felt damping and tar helped too. No box sound at all. None. The design is good, if it's well built. Of course the A4s would rule if built up to those standards too.
Geoff (with a G)
Yep, horn loading on the 15" driver. But why? It usually isn't the 150Hz and up region that needs help. So why horn load it? Doesn't that tilt the response up? Is that part of the sound signature? Or is there something else going on?
Play nice! We can't all trot out or "Bigger is Better, yours is not Big enough." So let's not go there.
Honestly, I've heard the big Altecs, like the A4s and the JBL clones. They sound great, they sound big, and they fill a huge cinema. But I'll take the modified 828 cabs with the 1505 horns any day. Why?
More natural. More realistic. Tighter. At least in a normal size room. A lot of old sound guys I knew would laugh at me when I told them how much I liked those cabinets. But they never heard a really tight, strong version with the 1505 on top.
Construction of the Altec cabinets was not always of the highest quality. Redoubling the walls with extremely dense plywood transformed them. Internal bracing, felt damping and tar helped too. No box sound at all. None. The design is good, if it's well built. Of course the A4s would rule if built up to those standards too.
Geoff (with a G)
Yep, horn loading on the 15" driver. But why? It usually isn't the 150Hz and up region that needs help. So why horn load it? Doesn't that tilt the response up? Is that part of the sound signature? Or is there something else going on?
The Voice of the Theatre Models were designed in the era of 2000 plus seat cinemas and 30 watt valve amps, the horn loading of the bass was for efficency and long throw. Also the horn loading would control directionallity minimising early reflections and therefore increase intelligability in those potential echo chambers called auditoriums.
Ps some think that the JBL's were better, I was impressed by the sound myself.
Ps some think that the JBL's were better, I was impressed by the sound myself.
panomaniac, I have a long established theory to your question, "but why" No physics to prove it however.
I believe for a speaker to reproduce a sound accurately, it must have some resemblance in size to the radiating surface of the instrument. If the effective surface area of the cone is smaller than the original radiating surface, it must travel futher to achieve a similar SPL.
If you take your average up market so called HiFi speaker with the classic 12" + 5" + 1" and crossovers at 500, + 5K, and ask yourself when any of those drivers, or combination, has resemblance to a musical instrument? You must have seen how far the skin on a bass drum travels. The above woofer has to travel twice that distance to achieve anything like the same sonic impact. Violin - off a 5" cone? And what does a 1" dome ressemble? A 15" diameter brass symbol, I don't think so, yet that is what we ask of it.
The horn enlarges the radiating surface, and also provides better impedance matching from the cone to the air. (That is physics)
Maybe others have a different take on it.
Geoff.
I believe for a speaker to reproduce a sound accurately, it must have some resemblance in size to the radiating surface of the instrument. If the effective surface area of the cone is smaller than the original radiating surface, it must travel futher to achieve a similar SPL.
If you take your average up market so called HiFi speaker with the classic 12" + 5" + 1" and crossovers at 500, + 5K, and ask yourself when any of those drivers, or combination, has resemblance to a musical instrument? You must have seen how far the skin on a bass drum travels. The above woofer has to travel twice that distance to achieve anything like the same sonic impact. Violin - off a 5" cone? And what does a 1" dome ressemble? A 15" diameter brass symbol, I don't think so, yet that is what we ask of it.
The horn enlarges the radiating surface, and also provides better impedance matching from the cone to the air. (That is physics)
Maybe others have a different take on it.
Geoff.
current repro 825 clones in Japan cost a mint (w/ WE field coil driver clones)
http://www.gip-laboratory.com/seihinn825system.html
WE587A tweeter clones optional
http://www.gip-laboratory.com/
the 'Interigence' part...
similar competitor for drivers: http://www.eltus.net/english/index-e.html
whoever snagged these very rare minty field coil driver/horn combo pair is lucky:
http://www.hifido.co.jp/cgi-bin/oldhifido_info5.cgi?model_no=04-19883-36613-50-2004-11-27&lang=e
http://www11.plala.or.jp/teikakakucosme/MAXONIC/speaker_unit/d51ex.html
http://www11.plala.or.jp/teikakakucosme/MAXONIC/speaker_unit/hc501.html
How do these latter Mantaray+bassbin types compare to the early models?
http://www16.plala.or.jp/footpointofaudio/ALTECLANSING/ALTEC-LANSING-Mantaray-Horn-System.html
http://www.gip-laboratory.com/seihinn825system.html
WE587A tweeter clones optional
http://www.gip-laboratory.com/
the 'Interigence' part... similar competitor for drivers: http://www.eltus.net/english/index-e.html
whoever snagged these very rare minty field coil driver/horn combo pair is lucky:
http://www.hifido.co.jp/cgi-bin/oldhifido_info5.cgi?model_no=04-19883-36613-50-2004-11-27&lang=e
http://www11.plala.or.jp/teikakakucosme/MAXONIC/speaker_unit/d51ex.html
http://www11.plala.or.jp/teikakakucosme/MAXONIC/speaker_unit/hc501.html
How do these latter Mantaray+bassbin types compare to the early models?
http://www16.plala.or.jp/footpointofaudio/ALTECLANSING/ALTEC-LANSING-Mantaray-Horn-System.html
panomaniac said:
To be fair, I never tried to get the most out of the smaller Altec cabinets. I think part of the reason I preferred the bigger RCA cabs (identical to the above picture I posted) is they were much more heavily constructed.
For the amount of space any of these large cabinets used, I'd prefer a straight horn and a separate ported sub below 70 Hz. Those big RCA cabs sure were fun at the time!
Well, if you think an A4 uses too much floor, I found this when I was researching folded TLs. They are a little bigger than mine.
www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12126
www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12126
Hey Jeff. From that photo I'd say the RCA were pretty well built! Must have sounded great. Solid construction sure seems to make a difference.
Ken.
Great story. Makes me wish I had gone out to Anaheim right after high school to work for Altec. We would have been there about the same time. 76-77?
I think I saw some of those Yamaha horns on eBay not too long ago. Someone said they weren't very good. Obviously you found otherwise.
Ken.
Great story. Makes me wish I had gone out to Anaheim right after high school to work for Altec. We would have been there about the same time. 76-77?
I think I saw some of those Yamaha horns on eBay not too long ago. Someone said they weren't very good. Obviously you found otherwise.
panomaniac said:
Thanks Michael. It was nice to see this thread, brought up a lot of memories.
My mom also worked for Altec as a secretary. She was there until they shut the doors at the Anaheim plant.
I'm glad she still worked there, because the company had a final "field trip" of sorts - and I was invited. They bused a bunch of us to 20th Century Fox studios. Reason: Fox had one of the first Voice Of The Theater systems installed in their Executive screening room. And it was still being used. Oh, and we got to watch Kirk Douglas in The Man From Snowy River. Pretty nice event to cap off the end of Altec (for the most part). It was never the same after that.
-Ken
Ken, Thanks for adding to the thread. There is nothing like a few "inside" stories to compliment the experiences of end users. And from some one with "hands on" with Pink Floyd's system.
You were probably at the plant when my 411s went down the line.
When the Mustang reached 40 years of age, they had the worlds largest gathering of V8s. I wonder if we could get Dave Gilmour and the boys to roll up to a VOTT fest.
Geoff
You were probably at the plant when my 411s went down the line.
When the Mustang reached 40 years of age, they had the worlds largest gathering of V8s. I wonder if we could get Dave Gilmour and the boys to roll up to a VOTT fest.
Geoff
kec said:
Well, isn't that strange.
I just came across These 15 cell Altec Horns from 20th Century Fox studios on eBay last night. Just before reading your post.
Maybe they are the same ones you heard at the farewell party!!
High price, but the 1505s are never cheap. And these are real beauties with a nice history. Could be time to break out the credit card, Ken.
Geoff H said:
Thanks for indulging me
What year did you get your 411s?
I just bought a 2006 Mustang GT - love it
Boy I wish. Last time I saw Pink Floyd was on the Animals tour (Anaheim Stadium) - awesome concert.
panomaniac said:Well, isn't that strange.
I just came across These 15 cell Altec Horns from 20th Century Fox studios on eBay last night. Just before reading your post.
Maybe they are the same ones you heard at the farewell party!!
What a coincidence.
Fox has several screening rooms (I've been in 2 differnt ones), maybe from one of their other screening room? I dunno. All I know is one of big honchos at Fox was a big fan of Altec and was proud that they still an original VOTT system, and that it was working very well.
If memory serves me, the label on those eBay horns look like the more recent version (late 70's early 80's).
-Ken
Hi Ken, the reciept is dated 26-11-76. Probably left your plant a month earlier. They were actually warranty replacement spares, I didn't want to wait another 2 months so Danny at Rank Australia transfered them to stock, while more were ordered.
BTW, the trip over the Pacific and import duty doubles the retail price.
We tried to get arround the import duty as nothing was being manufactured in that line, in Australia. Plessey Rola shut the doors, the magnetics plant sold (I spent some time working for the new owner, he couldn't see a market in big alnico magnets for speakers... And the rest of the plant went to Etone, hence the import duty.
Geoff.
BTW, the trip over the Pacific and import duty doubles the retail price.
We tried to get arround the import duty as nothing was being manufactured in that line, in Australia. Plessey Rola shut the doors, the magnetics plant sold (I spent some time working for the new owner, he couldn't see a market in big alnico magnets for speakers... And the rest of the plant went to Etone, hence the import duty.
Geoff.